House of Commons Hansard #14 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was affordable.

Topics

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Matt Jeneroux Conservative Edmonton Riverbend, AB

Madam Speaker, I often watch House proceedings on TV or come into the chamber and I feel sorry for the member for Kingston and the Islands. Today again he tied himself directly to the Kathleen Wynne government. I would ask the Prime Minister to please throw him a bone and help him. He is sitting on the backbenches and continues to heckle.

What I want to address is something that the member for Winnipeg North mentioned about the motion, which was to remove clause (c), the piece on a capital gains tax. I have not heard the member for Vancouver Granville speak yet today. I wonder what he thinks of that.

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

A very brief answer from the hon. member for Calgary Rocky Ridge.

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

Madam Speaker, it sounded like there were some questions for a few other members there. Regarding the third part of the motion, there was an interesting response from the member for Winnipeg North. It seems that the—

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

We will have to leave it at that.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Carleton.

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Madam Speaker, why? That is the most basic question anyone asks when something strange happens anywhere in nature. Why is it that a family in Riverside South, a suburban community 25 minutes from here, has been bid out on seeking a house eight times, most recently watching one normal middle-class house go $400,000 over the asking price, from $800,000 to $1.2 million? Why? Why have housing prices gone up 32% in a period of just a year and a half, while the economy has actually shrunk?

Why are housing prices going up while wages in real, inflation-adjusted terms are going down? Why is this incredible bubble filling with air? Let us go through the reasons that we have been given for the recent housing bubble. Some people blame house prices in Canada wrongly on immigration. We know that cannot be true, because throughout COVID there was almost no immigration, yet house prices went up. The normal flow of roughly 300,000 newcomers seeking houses nearly came to a grinding halt. Immigration cannot explain the ballooning house prices.

Some have blamed inflation in general on supply chain problems, but of course land does not have supply chains. It is already right beneath our feet. We do not import land on a ship. It is not stuck at a port. It was put here by billions of years of geological development. We cannot blame foreign supply chains for the booming price of housing.

Nor can we blame it on global factors, because housing inflation here has been far worse than in any other nation, with the exception of New Zealand. According to Bloomberg, Canada has the second-most-inflated housing bubble. Similarly, The Economist magazine has named Canada along with New Zealand and Australia as the countries it thinks might experience a massive crash on the scale of the 2008 crisis in the United States of America. If this was a global problem, we would not be suffering a much bigger bubble than the rest of the globe.

Some trendy commentators have said it is just that Canadians' preferences have changed. Because of all of the cabin fever that came with lockdowns, people want to live in the countryside and have more space; therefore, they are paying more for real estate. If that were true, we could verify it simply by seeing a drop in housing prices for inner-city condos. If people were all unloading those condos to go and live in the countryside, we would see the prices of urban condos drop. In fact, they too are up 15%.

Finally, and more plausibly, some people have pointed to the fact that it is very hard to build anything here in Canada. That is true, and that is one of the long-term structural reasons why we have inordinately high real estate prices in Canada. We all are aware of the incompetent municipal and provincial governments that drive up housing prices with their bureaucracies, and the rich urban snobs who like to prevent people from living in their neighbourhoods by lobbying city councillors to prevent development.

That is all true, but it does not explain the rocketing prices that began in the spring of 2020 because, of course, snob-zoning and incompetent bureaucracies are nothing new. They did not appear in Canada. We did not suddenly have an airdrop of one million inner-city snobs on Canada when COVID hit. They have long been here with the bureaucracies backing them up, blocking us from building housing for other communities for a very long time.

That is nothing new, so what is new? Why all of a sudden, when the economy fell off a cliff, did the price of housing suddenly rocket? If we look more microscopically at the data, we will see that in March and April of 2020, house prices actually started to drop. We forget that now. It was just as our number one housing agency predicted.

CMHC said that house prices would drop 10% to 14%, and then suddenly there was a change of direction. Prices went up and up, until they were far out of reach for everyday, ordinary working-class people. What happened in the spring of 2020 that would cause this inexplicable phenomenon to begin? The answer is that in late March, and running through until about a month ago, the government had the central bank pump $400 billion into the financial markets in order to make it cheaper for the feds to run deficits. The thinking was that if the central bank printed cash to buy bonds, it would drive down interest rates enough for the Government of Canada to be able to run consequence-free deficits, at least in the short term. The problem is that much of that money overflowed into the mortgage market. Just this week, we found out that mortgage borrowing totalled $193 billion in that period of time.

That is almost a quarter of a trillion dollars of mortgage lending, and what do we know? When the financial and mortgage markets are flooded with cash, that cash goes out and bids up the price of houses. In fact, the multiplication effect of a dollar inserted into the housing and financial system is really powerful. To simplify, let us say that we have 10 houses in a given country and each is worth $100. The total market value of all those 10 houses is $1,000. If one person manages to get some of that money from the central bank and bids up the price to $200 for one of those 10 houses, that house then has a market value of $200. What happens to the entire street? That entire street's market value now doubles, so $100 of extra purchasing power adds $1,000 of market price. This is the incredible multiplication power that leads to housing bubbles. That $400 billion led to $200 billion of new housing demand, which led to many more multiple increases in market value.

What happens with that? People then go out and borrow against their new home equity. They have unrealized gains in their homes that they use to collateralize more debt to buy more assets, which further inflates asset bubbles. We have seen a massive increase in the market price of assets across the economy since this experiment with central bank money printing began.

Here is the problem. What goes up can come crashing down. People are basing their economic decisions on assets that are floating on top of a bubble. When that bubble bursts, all of those assets, and the people who rely on them, come crashing down. In the meantime, the poor and the working class can no longer afford to purchase those assets. Thus, we see a massive expansion in the gap between the rich and the poor.

Trickle-down economics has never worked. Giving money to large financial institutions and expecting it to reach the working-class people at the bottom is a figment of the government's imagination. The people who do the work will pay the price in the crash, but get none of the benefit during the bubble. The answer is to stop printing money, free up more land and start building housing. We need to incentivize our municipalities to clean away the red tape and create work for our carpenters, framers and other tradespeople. We need to open up more land to supply our young people with homes and restore the great Canadian dream of having a place to live and a roof over one's head in a country that is a meritocracy, not an aristocracy.

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Kingston and the Islands Ontario

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)

Madam Speaker, we have now seen this Conservative member come back to talking about land to build again. That is not the narrative that we have heard. More members are clapping again, which is good.

Here is what we know. This motion is asking for 15% of the federal 41 million hectares of land to become available for redevelopment, as this member would like, yet we know 97% of that land is tied up in Parks Canada, National Defence and Environment Canada.

Can the member just let us know what, within Parks Canada, the Conservative Party is looking to divest in order to build what he is speaking of?

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Madam Speaker, I wonder if we might have a messenger service here that I could use to deliver the member the actual motion. I would ask him not to be shy and to come on over. I will read it for him right here.

Come back. Do not run away. Come on now, I am going to help you read the motion.

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Do the hon. members know and realize that they have to speak through the Chair? This is not a tier. The hon. member speaks through the Chair.

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

I am sorry, Madam Speaker, I was just trying to help. Come on. He was having trouble making sense of the motion, so I was going to read it for him, right before him. It says here:

review and consolidate all federal real estate and properties in Canada in order to make at least 15% available for residential development;

It is not the Parks Canada land. Parks Canada land does not have buildings. The motion says “federal real estate and properties”. That member should—

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

I remind the hon. members this is not a conversation. Thank you.

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

There could be a little less conversation and a little more action please, as Elvis would say, Madam Speaker.

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Madam Speaker, on a point of order, during the previous engagement we had a member walking around the chamber without a mask on. I would just like us all to be mindful of each other by wearing masks in the House.

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

The point is well taken. Yes, I remind all members to wear their masks when they are not speaking.

The hon. member for Vancouver East.

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Madam Speaker, I hope that the two members had some fun with their theatrics.

The reality, of course, is that there are a great many people across the country who need safe, secure, affordable housing: people who right now, at this moment, are homeless in the snow in the dead of winter.

I noted that, in this motion from the Conservatives, there was no mention whatsoever of the need for an urban, rural and northern “for indigenous, by indigenous” housing strategy. Indigenous people are overrepresented in the homeless population. They are 11 times more likely to use a shelter than non-indigenous people.

Do the Conservatives not care about indigenous people's need for housing? Why—

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

The hon. member for Carleton.

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Madam Speaker, not only do we care about it, but we are the only party that has a solution to it. The approach of the NDP, the Liberals and the Bloc is all the same: more big, fat government programs in Ottawa that do nothing for first nations people on the ground.

Our approach, if I could continue, is that we believe in empowering local first nations to give their people the opportunity to have title over their own properties. That is the fundamental problem. People cannot get mortgages if they cannot own property. If they cannot get mortgages, then they cannot develop home equity and they cannot get a credit history or collateral or participate in the modern economy. That is what we—

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Questions and comments, the hon. parliamentary secretary.

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, it is interesting to see the Conservatives backtrack somewhat on this motion, and I have read the motion. The person who introduced the motion made it very clearly about 41 million hectares and at least 15% of that. We cannot have it both ways. We cannot have the critic stand up and introduce it, and then farther down the speaking line have the finance critic say that he did not know what he was talking about.

Let us be clear. Does the Conservative Party realize that it made a mistake, and that maybe it should amend its resolution so it reflects what the member for Carleton is saying and not what their critic said at the beginning?

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Madam Speaker, it says it right here in the platform: “Review the extensive real estate portfolio of the federal government—the largest property owner in the country with over 37,000 buildings—and release at least 15% for housing, while improving the Federal Lands Initiative.”

There are 37,000 buildings that are underutilized, and with an increased tendency to work from home, more of that space will be freed up for—

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

The parliamentary secretary is rising on a point of order.

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, the member is intentionally misleading the House. Members are not allowed to intentionally mislead the House. He said that he is reading the motion, when he is in fact reading a platform.

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Madam Speaker, there are 37,000 buildings and many of them are empty. Increasingly, people are working from home. We are paying to heat those buildings and occupy that space. Meanwhile, we cannot house our people. Let us free them up to housing.

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Bardish Chagger Liberal Waterloo, ON

Madam Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the hon. member for Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook.

I rise today for the first time in debate in the 44th Parliament, and I would like to thank the good people of the riding of Waterloo for re-electing me and providing me the honour and privilege to represent the diversity of their voices, their perspectives and their experiences in this place—

Opposition Motion—Housing SupplyBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Order, please.

Could we keep order and allow the hon. member to give her speech in peace and quiet?