Debates of May 5th, 2021

National Defence

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the allegations of sexual misconduct against General Vance are a nightmare for all women who are serving and who want to serve their country in the Canadian Armed Forces.

There is a climate of fear and a culture of silence within the armed forces. Complaints go unanswered. The Liberal government is turning a blind eye to the severity of the situation. Who will the Prime Minister hold responsible?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, far too many survivors, women and men, in the Canadian Armed Forces do not feel comfortable coming forward to report their experiences and to make allegations against the individuals who perpetrated these unacceptable acts.

We need to change this. That is why we asked Justice Arbour for help and promoted General Carignan—so we can change the culture once and for all. We have done some things over the past few years and we need to do more.

Canada Revenue Agency

[Yves-François Blanchet, Bloc, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a 74-year-old from Bécancour—Nicolet—Saurel with no employment income was the victim of $10,000 in fraud related to the CERB. He also lost his GST rebate. He went to the police, he went to his caisse populaire and of course he went to the Canada Revenue Agency, which told him he had to pay $3,000.

Does the Prime Minister agree with the minister and member for Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine that, in such cases, the victim has to pay?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we know that unfortunately some Canadians are victims of fraud. The ministers are working closely with the Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre to address these issues.

We also provided Employment and Social Development Canada and the CRA with the resources needed to increase their ability to detect CERB-related fraud, conduct investigations, resolve cases and support victims.

Victims of fraud will not be held responsible for amounts paid to people who have stolen their identity.

[Yves-François Blanchet, Bloc, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what are the million victims of CERB fraud supposed to do with the Prime Minister's empty rhetoric?

A single person who earns $50,000 a year and who is the victim of identity theft by someone who received $14,000 in CERB benefits in their place will have to pay the government and the Prime Minister $5,000 up front. Does the Prime Minister believe it is right to make victims of fraud pay?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, once again, the victims of fraud are not held responsible for payments made to identity thieves.

National Defence

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Justice Deschamps wrote a report on sexual misconduct in the Canadian Armed Forces. She clearly recommended setting up an independent process for filing sexual harassment complaints.

Instead of launching another investigation, why does the Prime Minister not set up this independent process for filing complaints?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, in budget 2021, we announced over $236 million to eliminate sexual misconduct and gender-based violence in the Canadian Armed Forces, including to enhance internal support services to survivors.

In order to implement new external oversight mechanisms, we are building on the work that we are already doing, including a strategy for long-term culture change to eliminate sexual misconduct and implementing the declaration of victims rights.

Obviously, there is still a lot of work to be done. We will create a system in which people feel safe and supported when they have something to report.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yes, there is a lot of work that remains: putting in place the key recommendation of Justice Deschamps from 2015.

We had over 800 allegations in five years of either sexual assault or sexual harassment in the Canadian Forces, which is a staggering figure. That means over three allegations a week all while this Prime Minister was in government.

The Justice Deschamps report makes it clear. The number one recommendation was to put in place an independent process to bring forward complaints. Why has this Prime Minister, in those five years with all of those allegations, not put in place the key recommendation, which is an independent process to bring forward complaints?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, in budget 2021, we announced over $236 million to eliminate sexual misconduct and gender-based violence in the Canadian Armed Forces, including to enhance internal support services for survivors and implement new external oversight mechanisms. That builds on the work we have already done, including a strategy for long-term culture change to eliminate sexual misconduct and implementing the declaration of victims rights.

We have also appointed Justice Louise Arbour to follow up on the next steps that we can make for permanent change, while appointing General Jennie Carignan to take action right away.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the pattern of the Prime Minister, when faced with evidence of a cover-up and misleading for his own benefit, is to deny, then deny again, then say he did not know and then blame someone else, usually a woman. He has done that with the SNC-Lavalin corruption affair. He has done that with the WE scandal, making sure his family comes out ahead, and he is doing it now with his denial of knowing about the allegations around Vance.

Is it not true that the Prime Minister abandoned our women in the military and was complicit in covering up and protecting General Vance?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, no, it is not true. From the very beginning we have taken significant steps to support survivors of gender-based violence and support survivors of harassment and intimidation. We have moved forward with measures across government to create better supports, better accountability and stronger processes. As a government, and as an individual, we have always taken seriously concerns around sexual assault and we will continue to do even more. We know that there is much more to do and we will be focused on that.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, that is just not true. The Prime Minister is either complicit or he is incompetent. He either knew, which he denies, or his own chief of staff and minister of defence have so little regard for him that they see him as just a figurehead, or maybe they wanted to give him plausible deniability.

Which is it with the Prime Minister? Was he complicit in the cover-up, is he incompetent, or was he just conveniently left out of the loop so that with a nudge and a wink he could say, “I didn't know”?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, from the time I was in university to the time I became the leader of the Liberal Party, to the time I became the Prime Minister, I have always dedicated myself to supporting survivors of sexual violence, to making sure there is a process, that there is accountability and that there are the proper kinds of supports for anyone who comes forward to denounce irresponsible or unacceptable actions and assaults.

This is something that goes to the core of our government and continues to be something that we will continue to work on, because we know there is always much more to do.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, that is just remarkable because one thing we do know is that the Prime Minister is not a feminist. His record when it comes to the treatment of women is abysmal. Just ask the poor girl he groped at the Kokanee festival, ask the member for Vancouver Granville, or maybe Jane Philpott. How about Celina Caesar-Chavannes? Katie Telford will probably be next when he is done with her.

Most importantly, ask the women in our military if they think the Prime Minister is a feminist. It will be a resounding no. Is that not the sad truth?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, to be a feminist, one has to recognize that there is an inequality between men and women and agree that we need to do a lot more work to establish that. That is why we moved forward with feminist policies as a government on supporting survivors, on investing in things like child care and making sure that we are supporting women entrepreneurs, and on demonstrating a focus on pay equity.

We have continued to move forward because supporting women's equality, supporting opportunity for everyone is not just the right thing to do; it is also the smart economic thing to do.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr Speaker, military and civilian members know that harassment is alive and well in DND. The avalanche of allegations of sexual misconduct in the military continues, but under the Prime Minister no one is ever responsible; no one is held accountable. He hides saying he did not know, but that was three years ago. He knows now and still refuses to act.

Will the Prime Minister hold anyone accountable for perpetrating sexual misconduct at the highest levels in Canada’s military?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the process that was undergone in 2018 was exactly the same process embarked upon by the leader of the opposition back in 2015 when he was in government. He heard a rumour of misconduct, he told his staff, who told PMO and the Privy Council Office. The job of the politicians and their staff is to ensure that any allegation is given to the appropriate authorities.

The leader of the opposition and the Conservatives continue to decry a process that they themselves took when they appointed General Vance in the first place.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, women in the military have lost hope. Some have lost their career, others have tragically accepted there will be no justice. Service to country is an honourable profession. My father served, I served, and I would be incredibly proud if my daughter wanted to as well, but under the Prime Minister, if she chose a military career I would be worried for her safety.

If they asked him, would the Prime Minister encourage Canada’s sons and daughters, including his own, to serve in the Canadian Armed Forces?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it is an extraordinarily honourable calling to serve in the Canadian Armed Forces, to serve one's country in any given way. I am deeply proud that my grandfather was not just a sitting MP, but at the same time served in World War II as a flight lieutenant. Service to country is extraordinary and that's why we need to make sure that anyone who serves their country gets the proper support when unacceptable actions, assault or harassment happens.

We have made improvements, but we know there is much more to do, which is why we appointed both Louise Arbour and Jennie Carignan to lead on making these permanent changes.

[Leona Alleslev, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, more reviews and more training are not enough. The Prime Minister's inaction has emboldened the military old boys' club and reinforced and entrenched a toxic culture. He refuses to hold those at the highest levels accountable, not the defence minister, no senior member of the Privy Council, no one on the Prime Minister's staff. Promotions and postings for all general officers must be frozen until all those who are complicit are held accountable.

Will the Prime Minister fire those who have failed in their duties to Canadians?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, over the past years and, indeed, over the past months, we have demonstrated firmness and resolve in transforming the culture of the military to make sure that anyone who serves feels supported and resourced as they come forward to share unacceptable actions. We need to put an end to the culture of tolerance, misogyny and harassment that exists in our military and in far too many other institutions. That is something this government has taken seriously over the past five years and we will continue to move forward.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in 2018, the national defence ombudsman gave the Minister of National Defence a substantial file showing that the highest-ranking officer in the military, General Vance, allegedly committed acts of sexual misconduct against a person while she was under his command.

The Minister of National Defence refused to look at the file. Even though he knew allegations had been made, the minister kept the general in his position for three years. The minister even gave the general a pay raise.

Does the Prime Minister condone his defence minister's wilful blindness?

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as a matter of principle, politicians should not be the ones to investigate allegations of harassment, intimidation or assault. These matters should be handed over to the appropriate authorities.

That is exactly what the Minister of National Defence did. He referred the ombudsman to the appropriate authorities so that the proper process could be followed in order to get to the truth of the matter. Unfortunately, in this case, the survivor did not feel as though she had enough guidance to allow the ombudsman to share her information. This is exactly one of the things we need to change.

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, there are better ways to handle this that do not involve conducting an investigation.

The Minister of National Defence turned a blind eye to allegations he knew were sexual in nature because the ombudsman had warned him about them. The Prime Minister has repeatedly claimed that he was not aware of the allegations against General Vance. This means that, for three years, the Minister of National Defence knew that the highest-ranking officer in the military was potentially guilty of sexual misconduct and for three years he never told the Prime Minister.

Is a minister who hid such serious information from the Prime Minister still worthy of his trust?