Debates of June 7th, 2021

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

An hon. member's audio is on, and I would ask that we try to cancel that.

We will go back to the hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands to finish her question.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I sympathize enormously with the position the minister finds himself in. I was very uncomfortable moments ago in the ethics committee with how rudely he was being treated. It is inappropriate. However, for all of us in this place to operate with decorum and with respect for one another, this kind of motion on time allocation will do real damage to this place, not just today, not just tomorrow, but in the coming years, when we will find this used more and more to whip committees into shape. I ask the minister to think again and step back.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows of the friendship and admiration I have for her. I respectfully disagree.

Frankly, it is not about me, it is not about how rude some Conservative Party committee members have been either in the House or in committee, it is about artists. Every month that passes, we deprive our artists, musicians and technicians across the country of $70 million, every single month. Why? It is because we want some of the wealthiest companies in the world to pay their fair share. I just do not understand. Yes, it is an extraordinary measure, but these are extraordinary circumstances.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is quite absurd for the minister to suggest the only way he can help artists is by attacking freedom of speech. One of the problems with the debate that has happened on this bill at committee and elsewhere is that the minister has, frankly, not been able to answer some critical questions about the nature of the bill. We can understand why Canadians continue to have more questions when the minister is not answering them.

One question was asked of the minister by one of my colleagues, and I will re-ask it. Does the government give the CRTC the power to regulate social media algorithms through this bill? Many experts have said, yes, it does. When I asked this question at committee, the minister said it is not a “yes” and it is not a “no”. What is it, then?

I will ask the minister again because it is very important for Canadians looking at this bill and coming to conclusions. Is the government giving the CRTC the power to regulate social media algorithms through this bill?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will use an analogy which my hon. colleague may understand. What we are interested in is the vehicle, the car, preferably electric, and how fast it can go. We are not particularly interested in what is happening under the hood.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, honestly, it is very unfortunate that it has come to this. We have been working on Bill C-10 in committee for months. Things have been going well for months. Actually, I should say things had been going well for months.

There was goodwill from all parties to move forward on this bill. Everyone agrees that it was not perfect at the start, but once we begin working on a bill in committee, we agree to move forward and improve it. That has not been the case for several weeks. In committee, our Conservative friends have been filibustering on the somewhat false basis that the bill could potentially violate freedom of expression.

Recently, on Tout le monde en parle, Quebec's most-watched Sunday program, the Minister of Canadian Heritage said that the cultural sector was losing about $70 million a month without this law. I do not know if the cultural sector is losing $30 million, $50 million, $70 million or $100 million a month without this law, but it has been on the losing end for years since the digital giants entered the market.

We must revisit, review and revamp this act, which is over 30 years old. We must pass Bill C-10. The Quebec National Assembly is unanimous on this. The time for games is over. We must move forward and work on this bill with all the goodwill we can muster.

How long does the minister think we will need to wait before passing a bill like Bill C-10 for our cultural community?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his question.

He referred to an estimate put forward in committee by Canadian Heritage about the expected outcomes in terms of funding for the arts and culture sector from web giants. This would be around $830 million per year. If we do the math, we see that that is where the $70 million that the sector loses per month comes from.

I could not agree with him more that Bill C-10 must be passed as quickly as possible. That is what the cultural communities in Quebec and across the country are asking us to do. That is what the Quebec National Assembly wants, and that is what the majority of Canadians want too.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I think it is too bad that it has come to this.

It all started with a botched bill, a job half done. It seems as though the Liberal government wants to continue to do things halfway when there are 34 important amendments left to consider.

The Minister of Canadian Heritage spoke about the importance of making web giants contribute. We agree with the principle of that. In fact, we voted in favour of the bill at second reading. That is not the issue.

We are currently debating the use of a gag order to deprive parliamentarians of their right to continue the work in committee. That is what we are talking about right now, not the principle of the bill or the contribution of web giants to help artists. Is there a reason this approach has been used only three times in this country's entire history?

Even Stephen Harper's Conservatives never dared to muzzle parliamentarians in this way. Why did the government reject the NDP's proposal to continue the work in committee so that we can correct and fix this bill?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what we are hearing from the NDP is rather astounding given that ADISQ, the Coalition for the Diversity of Cultural Expressions, the Union des artistes and many other organizations want this bill to pass quickly, saying that it is a good bill. The Quebec National Assembly has said that Bill C-10 should pass because it is a good bill.

The NDP is saying that it knows the subject better than anyone and that Bill C-10 is a bad bill. It is rather astounding. I would have expected that from the Conservatives, but I am amazed to hear it from the NDP.

If the committee can resume the same pace as before, there is ample time for it to adopt all the amendments presented, if it so chooses.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday was D-Day and Canadian men and women fought and died for the rights and freedoms that we are talking about today, including the freedom of speech. The minister is taking away not just the individual freedoms to post what people want, but in addition, shutting down debate here in Parliament and now infringing upon committees' rights.

Does he not appreciate the fact that people won these freedoms with their lives? Why is he trying to erode the freedoms and rights of individuals of Parliament and of the committees?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the member opposite and the Conservative Party of Canada know full well that Bill C-10 has nothing to do with content moderation and what people can and cannot post online. In fact, professional independent civil servants from the Department of Justice, including the deputy minister, came to committee to testify to that effect.

It looks to me like the Conservative Party is continuing to mislead Canadians deliberately or unwillingly. I do not understand. It is simply not true. I do not understand why the Conservative Party would not want to force Google, one of the wealthiest companies in the world, to pay its fair share for Canadian artists.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Speaker, let me just say how very proud I am of my leader, my colleague from Drummond and their position on Bill C-10.

I did not get into politics because of partisanship. I got into politics because I want to serve the people of Quebec and because I love our culture and the French language. I do not like partisan games. I have no interest in that. What I want is what is best for the people I serve.

What my colleague and my leader did was to put the best interests of Quebec culture ahead of partisanship. I think that is incredibly noble, and I applaud them for it.

I know closure is never a good thing. However, given that the people in the arts and culture sector who are suffering and who have been calling for this legislation for so many years are my friends, I cannot help but applaud the Bloc Québécois's position.

Does the government acknowledge that the Bloc Québécois has done excellent work in committee to improve the broadcasting bill and ensure it gets passed?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her question. I almost thought she was going to congratulate the Department of Canadian Heritage for its excellent work, but maybe next time.

She is quite familiar with the realities of artists since she is part of the arts and culture community. Who in Quebec could forget Pierre Lapointe's strong statement a few years ago pointing out how platforms like Spotify and YouTube pay our artists hardly anything?

That is exactly what we want to address with Bill C-10. We want these huge multinational corporations to pay their fair share. We are not asking them to do more than everyone else. We are simply asking them to pay their fair share, as Canadian broadcasters already do.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I want to say congratulations to the Minister of Heritage because I, as a former artist for 33 years of my life, say good on him and I thank him so much. This is exactly what artists across Canada need. We just had the Juno awards last night and saw how much great talent there is in this beautiful country. As a former actor, I can say the actors union is behind this. We are all behind this. We are cheering the minister on and we want to get this passed as quickly as possible.

Could the minister please expand on why it is so important to get this done now?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since the last time the Broadcasting Act was reformed, we have seen the important and ever-increasing role of platforms on the television, movie and certainly on the music side of things. Our laws and regulations simply have not adapted to this new environment, which is costing our artists, musicians and technicians tens of millions of dollars every year. Bill C-10 aims specifically at correcting this so we can continue to have a thriving artistic and cultural ecosystem in Canada.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to follow up on my earlier question, which was bizarrely not answered, which again reveals the problem here. The government is eager to shut down debate and cannot answer basic questions about what the bill does.

Is the government seeking, through Bill C-10, to give the CRTC the power to regulate social media algorithms, yes or no?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I did try to answer my hon. colleague's question many times. Maybe it is not the answer he wanted to hear, but I have tried time and again to answer the question. What we want is an obligation of results. That is what we are looking for. It is what we are aiming for.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the NDP, for a long time, has been calling for taxing the web giants, but muzzling a committee is not the way to go.

The minister keeps citing the sense of urgency, but his government has had six years to get a bill tabled and before committee and get the work done. What is so urgent right now, and not getting this right and not letting the committee do its work, when the government has over two years left in its mandate? Is it that it actually wants to go to election and not deliver on the commitments it has made in this budget, like child care or raising the minimum wage? Maybe the government is not serious about all of that.

Maybe the minister can speak to us about whether there is intention to go to election early and leave all of those promises to the wayside when people are counting on them, especially small businesses that are saying they do not want an early election. They want to get back to work and they need us working collectively together. I am hoping the minister can address that.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what I find unexplainable is the fact that throughout the question and preamble of my hon. colleague he did not mention artists once, not once.

Yes, there is a sense of urgency that I am feeling and that our government is feeling regarding the adoption of Bill C-10, but that urgency comes from artists themselves. We have heard artists from coast to coast to coast saying to get Bill C-10 adopted, and there stands the NDP with the Conservative Party saying that they know better than the artists, the technicians and the musicians. I am baffled by the position of the NDP.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings at this time and put forthwith the question on the motion now before the House.

The question is on the motion.

In the usual way, if a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes to request either a recorded division or that the motion be adopted on division, I invite them to rise and indicate so to the Chair.

The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I request a recorded division.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Accordingly, call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #130

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I declare the motion carried.

Documents Related to the Transfer of Ebola and Henipah Viruses to the Wuhan Institute of Virology

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I am following up on an order made by the House last Wednesday as a result of the opposition motion brought forward by the member for Wellington—Halton Hills. Allow me, if you will, to read the relevant sections of the motion:

That an order of the House do issue for the unredacted version of all documents produced by the Public Health Agency of Canada in response to the March 31, 2021, and May 10, 2021, orders of the Special Committee on Canada-China Relations, respecting the transfer of Ebola and Henipah viruses to the Wuhan Institute of Virology in March 2019, and the subsequent revocation of security clearances for, and termination of the employment of, Dr. Xiangguo Qiu and Dr. Keding Cheng, provided that:

(a) these documents shall be deposited with the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, in both official languages, within 48 hours of the adoption of this order;

(b) the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel shall promptly thereafter notify the Speaker, who shall forthwith inform the House, whether he is satisfied the documents were produced as ordered....

The motion goes on from there, but I want to focus on those two points. Part (a) stipulates that the documents shall be deposited with the law clerk within 48 hours. The order was adopted on Wednesday, June 2, 2021, at approximately 4:25 p.m., which means the documents were due to be delivered by Friday, June 4 at 4:25 p.m., after the House had adjourned for the week. Part (b) stipulates that the law clerk shall notify the Speaker, who will “forthwith inform the House, whether he is satisfied the documents were produced as ordered”.

My simple question to you is this: When do you plan to inform the House as to whether the law clerk and parliamentary counsel is satisfied that the government has produced the documents, as ordered by the House?