House of Commons Hansard #122 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was food.

Topics

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Speaker, the member went through a litany of Liberal failures, excessive spending and corruption.

In the last three years, as the Canadian government has grown in size, and people have lost their jobs, we have seen examples such the Department of Fisheries and Oceans growing by 4,300 net new jobs in the last three years, 1,000 of which are in finance and HR. I guess they have a lot of HR problems in fisheries.

The only place in this economy that seems to be growing is government jobs. I wonder if the member could comment on that.

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB

Madam Speaker, it is more and more of an example of the government creating more Ottawa jobs and not helping our small businesses create jobs. Small businesses are the real job creators in this country.

We know that, over the pandemic, the Liberals bragged about more jobs being created. The reality is that more than 85% of those jobs were created in the public sector, not the private sector. The government has done the best job it could to drive down small businesses and make investment run away. By not supporting our energy sector, it has driven away good jobs and great energy.

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

Eglinton—Lawrence Ontario

Liberal

Marco Mendicino LiberalMinister of Public Safety

Madam Speaker, it is a privilege to rise to speak to this opposition motion, which has been brought forward by the member for Carleton.

I am going to come to the substance of my remarks shortly, but before I do, I want to say that, listening to the Conservatives this morning, it seems that throughout the pandemic they have suffered from some amnesia.

The very federal spending and investments this government put into place during the course of the pandemic included many initiatives the Conservatives voted in favour of. As one of my colleagues was reminding me this morning, when it came to CERB, the Conservatives were advocating that it was a federal program that ought to have been increased and enhanced.

There is, regrettably, some cognitive dissonance in the lack of ability of our Conservative colleagues across the aisle to remember the very investments the government made during the pandemic to have Canadians' backs to help workers, families, seniors and young people were federal investment initiatives that the Conservatives supported. That is an appropriate background to bear in mind as we debate the merits of this motion.

As the Minister of Public Safety, I am always proud to talk about what our country is doing on all fronts to protect the health and safety of Canadians. In much of the work before us as parliamentarians, I am also pleased to help scrutinize how we are spending to do just that.

However, the wording of this particular motion is perplexing, to say the least, as the ArriveCAN app has been tenuously lumped in with a broader discussion about the cost of living. The measures we have introduced to protect Canadians during the COVID-19 pandemic should not be confused with the cost of living topic. That said, if it is the will of the House to discuss our pandemic measures, including ArriveCAN, I am very pleased to do so today.

Throughout the pandemic, the government put in place the measures necessary to protect the health and safety of Canadians. We introduced the Canada emergency response benefit. We made sure to introduce wage and rent subsidies to keep businesses alive and to protect workers. Indeed, we put into place the public health-related measures necessary to keep Canadians safe, to facilitate travel, and to keep our economy moving, including the tool we know as ArriveCAN.

Let me preface my remarks further by saying that we have removed all testing, quarantining and isolation requirements for anyone entering Canada as of October 1.

Public health measures at the border were lifted on October 1, 2022, and people are no longer required to provide health information via ArriveCAN.

The government has taken a prudent, incremental and risk-based approach to adjusting our public health measures at the border. I am pleased to have this opportunity to explain that approach.

The goal has been simple. It is to reduce the risk of importation and transmission of COVID-19 and the new variants of concern. Our measures have both helped to reduce and monitor the risk of the importation and transmission of COVID-19 and new variants in Canada associated with international travel.

As the situation evolved, we worked closely together with our partners in real time, especially those at Health Canada, and we adjusted and eased measures based on the best-available data, associated risk and the latest available scientific evaluations.

At every phase of the pandemic, we took careful steps based on the epidemiological situation in Canada, as well as the international situation. We saw that restrictions were lifted in domestic jurisdictions, as they were internationally. We saw that the latest science told us that Canada has now largely passed the peak of the omicron BA.4- and BA.5-fuelled wave. The largest urban areas are showing decreased levels of the virus, and with some regional variation remaining across Canada, we are now in a much better position.

In no small part, that is also thanks to the actions of Canadians themselves. We have seen a high uptake in vaccination rates and strong adherence overall to common sense, evidence-based public health measures. We have more tools now, such as rapid tests, to help prevent the spread of the virus, as well as better treatments.

Just recently, the World Health Organization indicated, “We have never been in a better position to end the pandemic. We are not there yet, but the end is in sight.”

Today, I am pleased to say that based on all these considerations, we have now removed all COVID–19 border requirements for all travellers entering into Canada. That includes the removal of all federal testing, quarantining and isolation requirements. Relevant to this motion today, it includes removal of the mandatory submission of health information in ArriveCAN.

As I said, as of October 1, 2022, travellers are no longer required to provide health information via ArriveCAN.

Allow me to parse this further. All travellers arriving in Canada are no longer required to be vaccinated against COVID–19 or subject to COVID–19 testing, quarantining or isolation requirements. Travellers no longer have to submit their public health information through ArriveCAN. However, travellers may, on a voluntary basis, use the optional CBSA advance declaration feature in ArriveCAN to submit their customs and immigration declaration in advance of arrival if they so choose. It has saved travellers time, and it continues to be available at Toronto Pearson, Vancouver and Montréal–Trudeau international airports. Border officers have the authority to screen passengers for illnesses, and not just COVID–19.

With respect to the motion's language on the efficiency of ArriveCAN, I can offer some further insight from a public safety perspective. It was imperative that we had ArriveCAN as a tool. It helped us to collect necessary health information while facilitating travel and border processing. At the pinnacle of that information, we were able to screen whether or not travellers at the time had met the threshold for being appropriately vaccinated.

It also allowed travellers to be processed efficiently and saved about five minutes of time at the border for each traveller, in what would have otherwise been a series of questions put to them by CBSA frontline officers. The information collected by ArriveCAN was mandatory at the time.

It had high ratings in the mobile app stores, and as of September 2022, ArriveCAN had been downloaded more than 18 million times. It was built with accessibility needs in mind. If not for the app, every traveller would have had to input their information manually, spending more time with a border services officer while the lines were growing longer.

The situation has now evolved. With the removal of public health border measures surrounding vaccination, testing and quarantine isolation requirements, travellers are no longer required to provide mandatory travel and public health information through ArriveCAN.

As noted, travellers can continue to use the optional CBSA advance declaration feature in ArriveCAN to submit their customs information, should they choose to do so. Data shows us that using advance declaration cuts down the amount of time a traveller spends at a kiosk by roughly one-third, which is significant. In the coming months, the optional CBSA advance declaration feature will also become available to travellers arriving at the Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Billy Bishop Toronto City, Ottawa, Quebec City and Halifax international airports. The CBSA is exploring other optional ArriveCAN features to provide a smoother, more efficient experience for travellers. This will be expanded to include travellers by land and other modes of entry, such as marine and rail, so that all can make use of the available technology to expedite and facilitate travel.

ArriveCAN has clearly been an important tool in our tool chest during the pandemic to keep Canadians healthy and safe and to facilitate the movement of people across the border. I want to remind the House that we are aware of the costs related to ArriveCAN. They covered many things. They were not just for the development of the app; there are many safeguards built into the procurement system. The proper processes were followed. An analysis of the costs associated with ArriveCAN is posted on the CBSA website.

All members can see that several professional service contracts were used for its development and maintenance. Contractors were selected based on their expertise and were compensated within the terms and the rigours of the policies that are put in place to ensure accountability and transparency.

All payments related to ArriveCAN were made in line with Government of Canada policies and directives on financial management, as managed through PSPC, and the maintenance of the internal controls framework.

Further, a review of the list of contracts is ongoing to ensure that Canadians and Parliament are provided with all accurate information. ArriveCAN served as an important tool to keep Canadians safe and to manage public health information at the border.

Moving forward, though, we cannot be complacent. That is why the Government of Canada will continue to work with international partners to closely monitor the global epidemiology of COVID–19, and that is a very important part of our overall strategy.

The epidemiology of COVID-19 is different in other countries, and some are experiencing higher case counts than Canada is. Just as we have done throughout the pandemic, we will remind travellers to make smart, informed, common-sense decisions when considering travel outside of Canada, to ensure their health and safety.

The Government of Canada will maintain a capacity, obviously, to reinstate testing where necessary for monitoring purposes at the border, if and only if required, so that we are prepared and so that we can protect the health and safety of Canadians.

Colleagues, allow me to be quite clear. It is still important for individuals to remain up to date with their vaccinations; it is also important to get boosters when they become eligible, and it is still important to keep up with personal protective habits like hand-washing, wearing masks in poorly ventilated places and staying home if symptoms manifest.

Canadians can still help to protect themselves and others and reduce the spread of COVID-19 by getting vaccinated; getting boosters; wearing a well-fitting, good-quality mask; staying home if they have symptoms; and self-testing if possible.

There is no doubt that the last few years have been challenging. I want to thank all of our officials, our agencies and the frontline workers who have been rigorously there to help support Canadians through this unprecedented time. I also want to thank all colleagues in the chamber for this important debate.

Finally, and most importantly, I want to thank Canadians, because indeed it is they who have made the sacrifices; it is they who have been following the advice of public health care experts, and it is they who have gotten vaccinated. It is Canadians who have gotten boosted; it is Canadians who continue to show good, smart, common-sense practices when it comes to not only protecting themselves but each other, and that is at the very spirit of what makes this country strong, healthy and prosperous.

I welcome the opportunity to answer some questions.

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:45 a.m.

Bloc

Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC

Madam Speaker, I was stunned by what I heard from my colleague across the aisle. He would have us believe that there were no problems with ArriveCAN. One would think this was Alice in Wonderland. According to the member opposite it was a great success, when, really, it caused complete chaos.

Our constituency offices received complaints from people in a state of panic who were afraid of being fined. Now we are learning that the app cost a fortune and needed constant updates, and it still never worked properly, sending out incorrect notifications. According to the Liberals, though, everything went great. I am trying to understand.

Were the Liberals the only ones who actually figured out how ArriveCAN worked?

Maybe only Liberals could understand the app, or perhaps it was willful blindness.

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:45 a.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Madam Speaker, I would first like to thank my hon. colleague for his question.

The health and safety of Canadians is at the heart of the federal government's strategy. That is precisely why we implemented border measures and introduced essential tools like the ArriveCAN app, to prevent the threat of COVID-19 transmission.

The purpose of the app is to collect information and statistics in order to understand whether there are any risks for travellers arriving in Canada. Technology sometimes poses challenges, and I accept that. However, the government was always there and ready to work with our partners to make ArriveCAN more effective. That is why the app was needed during the pandemic, but it is no longer mandatory.

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:45 a.m.

NDP

Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

Madam Speaker, I thank the minister for his speech.

I would have to agree with the previous questioner on this. ArriveCAN was basically doomed from the start, because the government was requiring all Canadians re-entering Canada to use it. They did not have a choice. It assumed one had a cell phone, and it assumed one had the tech savvy to use the app. Many people did not.

I have a riding with six border crossings in it, and I had numerous complaints about how it failed people and sent them into quarantine when they should not have been sent into quarantine. Now we hear that it cost a ridiculous amount of money.

My question is this: Given that the government has spent more money in the last year on hiring IT consultants than it has spent on its own in-government IT workforce, will it really make sure that it builds a good IT workforce that we can depend on, that we have control over and that we have transparency on, so we can get things done with a good, moderate amount of money and have control over that?

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Madam Speaker, I take my colleague's point and I want to say two things in response.

First, with regard to the investments in ArriveCAN, at every critical stage we followed with great rigour the policies that were put in place when it came to procurement. We made sure we could get value for taxpayer money when it came not only to the creation of this app, but also, a distinction that is regrettably lost on the opposition, to the ongoing maintenance of the app, to ensure that we could address some of the challenges my colleague mentioned when it came to accessibility or other compliance issues. That is precisely why it is important as we debate this motion to look beyond just the development of the app, but rather to its ongoing maintenance as an essential tool at the time.

Second, there can be no doubt that ArriveCAN was an essential tool during the pandemic, precisely because it helped us to screen travellers as being vaccinated upon their entry into Canada. There ought not to be any debate in this chamber about what was and continues to be the most effective strategy to overcome COVID-19, and that is to get vaccinated. That is what ArriveCAN helped us do. It helped us to make sure travellers were vaccinated.

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

Madam Speaker, it would seem that the debate today is all about ArriveCAN, and it should be, because the questions are very good.

The app was, first of all, mandatory, so I find it interesting that the minister bragged about how many people downloaded the app. They had to download the app; they did not have an option.

The real question is the $54 million that it cost. We already know payments were made to companies who did not even know they got paid, and that all this money was lost. Will the government actually audit the money that was spent and figure out, number one, why it cost so much more than it should have cost for what it did, and number two, where all this money went that nobody knows about? Who got rich on this?

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Madam Speaker, as I said in my speech, there is a link to a CBSA website that lists exactly how the app was created in terms of the spending. We encourage this debate as a vehicle for transparency and scrutiny. We should all embrace ensuring that we are using taxpayer dollars in a way that is fiscally and transparently responsible.

However, the more important point that I want to make to my colleague across the aisle is that if he agrees, and I hope he does, that vaccinations are the most effective way to overcome COVID-19, a once-in-a-century pandemic, then surely a logical extension of that strategy is that it was a useful mechanism to have ArriveCAN at the border to make sure that travellers were vaccinated upon entry, not only for their individual safety but for the safety and security of all Canadians.

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Madam Speaker, given that the entire day today will be occupied by a discussion of the ArriveCAN app, I want to put to the minister that there are deep divisions in this country that will persist for some time related to other issues in terms of how the COVID pandemic was handled. For example, we now see the Premier of Alberta deciding to block public health officers from allowing children to be masked in school, even if that is the safest way to protect our children. This reflects deep divisions.

The current Emergencies Act inquiry, which is mandated by the Emergencies Act, helps Canadians see all sides of complex questions. I wonder if the minister's government would be open to a full review, engaging knowledgeable members of Parliament, including the member of Parliament for Yukon, who was the public health officer for his territory at the time, and really examine the medical and scientific information here.

Let us hear all sides so that we can have what I always aspire to as a lawyer: Can we have an agreed set of facts, so that Canadians do not go into the next decade without the unity that comes from understanding a shared set of facts?

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Madam Speaker, I applaud and endorse my colleague's question. There is no doubt in my mind that we should all be concerned about the extent to which disinformation has proliferated on all of our online social media channels in a way that has made it very difficult to have thoughtful, responsible, fact-based debates in every aspect of life, including when it came to the public health measures that we took at the border and including on the necessity and the essential qualities of a tool like ArriveCAN.

I would be very open to working with my colleague and all members of this chamber to continue to examine the extent to which there is polarization in our country that is being driven very deliberately and consciously by the spread of disinformation. We need to come back to facts. At every critical stage in the decisions we took at the border, we looked at the facts and we looked at the evidence. That is what informed our decisions around ArriveCAN and all border measures.

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Kingston and the Islands Ontario

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)

Madam Speaker, one thing I find most fascinating about the Conservative motion today is that it about ArriveCAN. The minister responsible for this is here and the Conservatives let their first question go by. They were entitled to the first question and they let it go to the Bloc. They did not even bother asking the minister a question. Meanwhile, the member for Abbotsford was chirping away in the back row over there, heckling him the entire time.

I will go back to the opening comments of the minister today. He mentioned specifically the Conservatives' willingness to support programs that supported Canadians during the pandemic, but they did not only do that. The Conservatives actually fought to spend more.

Let us look at the Canada emergency wage subsidy. Originally what was introduced by the government versus what ended up being passed by the House was considerably more because the Conservatives wanted to spend more money.

Would the minister not agree that it is slightly hypocritical for the Conservatives to suddenly be so critical of the spending for which they voted in favour?

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Liberal

Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Madam Speaker, I do think it attracts a certain curiosity that for two-thirds of the pandemic, it was the Conservatives urging the government, and I would say justifiably, to spare no expense and no effort whatsoever when it came to procuring vaccinations, because it was a lifeline and that lifeline helped to save literally tens of thousands of lives.

If the Conservatives believed in that, if they believed that it was important for the government to get people vaccinated, then surely they ought to support an essential application at the border that allowed us to ensure the strategy—

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Trois-Rivières.

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Bloc

René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Madam Speaker, before I begin, I would like to wash the member for Kingston and the Islands' mouth out with soap since I have had enough of his constant lack of respect.

I will begin by saluting my constituents in Trois-Rivières.

I will be sharing my time with the member for Terrebonne if she gets here in the next 10 minutes.

The worst obligation for a prince, may be—

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member, but I must remind him that we are not to mention the absence or presence of colleagues in the House.

The hon. member for Trois-Rivières.

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Bloc

René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Madam Speaker, I was saying that the worst obligation for a prince is always having to cover things up.

Unlike the Conservatives, who were not pleased to speak to our motion last week, I am pleased to speak to the Conservative motion this morning. I am pleased to talk about it.

A lot of attention has been given to inflation. However, I will look at this from another angle, specifically, from an ethical perspective. Ethics is about doing the right thing. Currently I am concerned. I am concerned because the articles we read in the media leave us with a lot of questions. They leave us hanging. They pique our interest and then fail to report on what really happened with ArriveCAN. I am concerned and this is why.

For several years now, the government has made a habit of outsourcing its services. Many services have been outsourced to the private sector. Here we are talking about GC Strategies. Again and again, private firms are benefiting from the government's decision to let go of the expertise it should have internally. By outsourcing its services, the government is draining departments of their expertise, thereby becoming vulnerable to the whims of its outsourcers. I recently read a book about the McKinsey firm entitled When McKinsey Comes to Town. Companies like McKinsey advise governments and, on some level, influence public policy despite the fact that they are not elected. I am therefore concerned. I am concerned that the government is outsourcing this procedure and the related expertise.

GC Strategies knows all this. The company is a two-person intermediary that finds resources elsewhere. Without this intermediary, however, the government of Canada could not act. I am a little concerned about that as well. I wonder what that company had that the departments in question did not. Outsourcing worries me. I am concerned that companies are influencing public policy and making choices that governments should be making.

On several occasions, the government has shown a culture of secrecy and cover-ups. Secrecy means preventing others from seeing and knowing, and to cover up is to make believe. The government's culture is often to make us believe something other than the truth. We are kept in the dark. Essentially, there are some files, of which ArriveCAN is a prime example, that show us how secretive the government's intentions are. It does not want us to understand. I am concerned about this culture of cover-ups.

As they say, people who know they are serious tend to be clear, while those who want to look serious tend to be secretive. I think this applies here.

Basically, when I look at ArriveCAN from an ethics standpoint, what strikes me is the fact that they talk about trust. Trust is the foundation of life in society. Without trust, we are constantly asking questions, which, incidentally, is what we are doing now. Trust means not having to provide proof. When there is no trust, we need a facsimile or substitute: transparency.

When trust is not possible, we must content ourselves with transparency. However, trust is more important. Transparency enables us to see behind a policy, but trust enables us to live together. Montaigne talked about loving without hate and hating without love. That is what trust is, the ability to work hand in hand without always having to provide proof.

The thing I dislike about ArriveCAN is the constant need for proof, the constant need for one party or another to introduce a motion or go to committee to demand an explanation about what was done because we do not understand. It is never particularly clear.

When trust is not possible, we must content ourselves with transparency. When the government engages in dissimulation, it prevents us from seeing its intent. It is on the verge of lying. I am not saying that it is lying. What is lying? It is making someone do something they would not have done had they known the truth.

I travelled to Rwanda this summer, and I had a hard time entering my information in ArriveCAN. When I returned to Canada, no one even asked to see it. That is how useful it is. I was a little taken aback.

Once again, lying is what hinders communication between two entities. The government is not quite lying, but almost. That is when we need to act ethically. When we are lost in a fog of uncertainty, a grey area, we need to act ethically, which means that, in a discussion such as this one, I am going to focus a little less on myself and a little more on others. I will think about others. In a situation like this, I know that I am going to have to be open-minded to understand what is at issue.

Above all, acting ethically means doing the right thing even when no one is watching. I have a story about this from classical philosophy. There was once an emir who had a ring adorned with a small diamond. By twisting the ring on his finger, he could become invisible. Well, he lost the ring, of course. It was found by one of his slaves, who put it on, twisted it around and went off to the harem. The rest can be imagined, but in all the excitement, the ring twisted back around and he became visible again. Let us say he had a rough day after that.

This is what I mean: Acting ethically means doing the right thing even when no one is watching. We, the opposition members, including the Conservatives who moved this motion, are watching. All we see is secrecy. We are not okay with that.

I would like someone to explain why the government used such a strategy, specifically an outside business that subcontracted its services. I do not know much about IT services, but I do not see how something would start at $80,000 or $250,000 and end up costing $54 million, even though I understand that there are many things included in the cost breakdown. It seems to me that an organization as large as the Government of Canada should be able to do such work itself without resorting to this type of middleman.

I am curious and I would really like some help understanding this situation, shedding some light on it and getting rid of the secrecy. That is what I want, but I am not sure we will be able to do it.

I will quickly conclude by saying that, beyond the fact that the ArriveCAN app appears unnecessary, as I did not use it when returning to Canada, I find it outrageous that money is being spent frivolously and that we often accept it and just let it go.

Paul Valéry, an author that I really like, said that it is not the wicked who do the most harm in this world. It is the maladroit, the negligent and the credulous. The wicked would be powerless without a certain quota of the good.

It is time for the good people to stand up and say that enough is enough. I would like to get to the bottom of this.

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON

Madam Speaker, the member talked a lot about trust and specifically about the arrive scam. However, there has also been a number of other indiscretions, including the WE Charity, the Aga Khan trip and others. The member talked about the impact of those. Many authors have written about trust and how that slows down the operation of business.

Are the people of Quebec starting to feel as though they do not trust the Liberal government?

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Bloc

René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his very relevant question. Quebeckers' trust in the Liberal government is waning.

Given my past experience, I noticed that the culture of secrecy and cover-ups seems to be part of the Liberal Party's DNA, and that is a problem. Whether we are talking about the sponsorship scandal or things that happened before that, all of these cover-ups and this secrecy are not conducive to building trust, and yet trust is exactly what is needed today.

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Kingston and the Islands Ontario

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)

Madam Speaker, I love when we talk about the sponsorship scandal. I was in high school at the time, so forgive me if I do not remember the details of that.

On the topic of the last question asked, about trusting the Liberals, I wonder if the member from the Bloc could tell us how Quebeckers feel about trusting Conservatives. They must trust Conservatives more than they trust Liberals. Is that correct?

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Bloc

René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Kingston and the Islands for his question.

In Quebec, people trust the Bloc Québécois.

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Trois-Rivières, as he always provides a really high level of nuance in these very important discussions.

The hon. member referenced the need for transparency and trust. Having worked alongside him at the ethics committee, I know he will likely have a comprehensive answer to this.

At the heart of this, we have staffers, people within the public sector, who sometimes witness malfeasance or things that might be in conflict with the law. What suggestions does the hon. member have for enhancing whistle-blowing to allow public sector workers who see government malfeasance to step forward with adequate protections and supports to ensure that Canadians have access to information on what is happening in the back rooms of government?

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Bloc

René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank the member from Hamilton-Centre for his question. I work with him on the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, and his perspective is always refreshing.

First, Canada has the worst whistle-blower protection regime. Under the current regime, there is no way of knowing whether one person made 40 complaints or whether 40 people made one complaint. It is really anonymous and confidential. Second, the more specific the complaint, the easier it is to determine who the whistle-blower in question is. That is what we want to focus on right now. Under the current regime, the whistle-blower is done for in every case.

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. It is always very interesting to listen to him.

As he mentioned, the issue of transparency seems to be in the Liberal Party's DNA. I can certainly recall some of the scandals, such as the sponsorship scandal. More recently, public confidence in the institution and in the Liberal Party was shaken again because of the WE scandal. That $900-million contract was awarded to members of the Prime Minister's family who were very close to him. In addition, an untendered contract for respirators worth nearly $240 million was awarded to a former Liberal Party MP.

Today we are talking about the untendered contracts for the ArriveCAN app. The situation is understandable, but it is always the opposition parties' responsibility to raise the public's concerns about this transparency.

My colleague from Trois‑Rivières spoke about the culture of avoidance and cover-ups. I would like him to explain how the government could be proactive in improving public confidence in institutions and, hopefully, in the Liberal Party.

Opposition Motion—ArriveCAN Application Performance AuditBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Bloc

René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his hard work.

There have been numerous scandals over the years. Contrary to what the member for Kingston and the Islands said, I was not born at the time of World War II, but I remember it. I was not born at the time of the Peloponnesian War either, but I remember it too.

The only way to restore confidence is to expose what happened and enable people to understand, to fully comprehend what is at stake.