House of Commons Hansard #136 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was use.

Topics

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2022Government Orders

6 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Winnipeg North for his remarks.

Indeed, I think such a bill was urgently needed. I commend the government's leadership and congratulate it on having understood the errors in Bill C-11 and making some improvements.

I met with the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry in January, when it was time to think about developing this bill. I emphasized the importance of the Quebec legislation and of ensuring its primacy. I thank him for listening to me and for the respect evident in Bill C-27.

With respect to the urgent need to take action, Europe is putting a lot of pressure on us. Indeed, Europe has set guidelines and is currently threatening to withdraw its confidence in our artificial intelligence systems in Canada, particularly in the banking sector. It was necessary to act; better late than never.

I hope the principle will be adopted quickly, but more importantly, I hope that the committee work will be thorough and that the experts will be heard. This will be more than welcome.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2022Government Orders

6 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Speaker, I have concerns around the fact that we are expecting the government to do a good job.

The member mentioned CERB, which was, in many ways, abused. We are aware that the government, in an effort to roll it out quickly, removed all the checks and balances on the system. How does that build confidence for him and other Canadians to put their trust in its ability to do this correctly?

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2022Government Orders

6:05 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Speaker, trust is a major issue. Far too often, we are negligent. How many times do we just click “I accept” in an app without reading the consequences of what we are accepting? Our data is being sent all over the world.

Artificial intelligence is something that scares me, truth be told. A guest speaker came to Parliament, to a room in the House of Commons, and this is what he told us. What does AI say is the fastest way to get to Toronto? Just simulate an accident or a speed trap so that people get off the road. That will allow us—

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2022Government Orders

6:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

Order. I believe there is no interpretation.

It is working now.

The hon. member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue can restart his answer.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2022Government Orders

6:05 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Speaker, it is not easy. What I was talking about was trust.

Artificial intelligence is something that scares me, on the whole. A guest speaker came to a meeting held on Parliament Hill, and he told us about the risks.

Say we want to drive to Toronto and there is a lot of traffic. What can we do? We can ask AI to tell us the fastest way to get to Toronto. One option is to simulate an accident, which will ensure that the road is cleared. Another is to say that police have set up a speed trap or something. AI can be used to generate very realistic photos, such as a Parliament building on fire. Fighting disinformation is a major challenge.

Everyone has an individual responsibility. All too often, when using an app, we quickly click “accept” rather than doing our due diligence. That has consequences.

As I was saying earlier, we send a lot of data abroad. With the arrival of quantum computing, we may suffer the consequences of sending all this data to the cloud.

I do not think it is too late to have a law that sets out a framework, to improve the legislation and especially to ask experts to tell us how this bill can be improved. I am thinking about the people at the International Centre of Expertise in Montréal on Artificial Intelligence, those at the Quebec Artificial Intelligence Institute, or Mila, and those at the University of Montreal. These people work in this field every day and have a contribution to make. I look forward to hearing from them at the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2022Government Orders

6:05 p.m.

NDP

Lisa Marie Barron NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague.

Bill C‑27 does not explicitly apply to political parties. As we have seen in the past, the potential for invasion of privacy and misuse exists in the political arena. I was wondering if my colleague would agree that the bill should be amended to specifically include political parties.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2022Government Orders

6:05 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Nanaimo—Ladysmith for her question. Indeed, political parties have responsibilities. They have people's personal data. We need to act. If we can include it in the bill, I am all for it. We have a responsibility as parliamentarians.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2022Government Orders

6:05 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is always a privilege to rise on behalf of the residents of Kelowna—Lake Country. Today we are debating Bill C-27, an act that would enact the consumer privacy protection act, the personal information and data protection tribunal act and the artificial intelligence and data act.

Canadians know we no longer live in the year 2000, but unfortunately much of our digital regulation still does. We have come a long way since Canadians' primary online concern was Y2K. The last time Parliament passed a digital privacy framework was PIPEDA, or the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, on April 13, 2000. The most popular website in Canada that month was AOL.

When Parliament last wrote these regulations, millions of homes did not have dial-up, let alone Wi-Fi. Cellular phones lacked apps or facial recognition, and people still went continually to libraries to get information, and did not have the Alexas of the world as an alternative. They also called restaurants directly for delivery. Digital advertising amounted to flashing banners and pop-up ads.

In only 22 years, we have experienced a paradigm shift in how we treat privacy online. Personal data collection is the main engine driving the digital economy. A Facebook account is now effectively required to use certain types of websites and help those websites; a laptop can create a biometric password for one's bank account, and Canadians are more concerned about privacy than ever before.

One of the most common videos I share with residents in my community of Kelowna—Lake Country is one relating to privacy concerns during my questioning at the industry committee in 2020, as many people reached out to me about privacy concerns. It was to a Google Canada representative regarding cellphone tracking. This was in the immediate aftermath of reports of Canadians' cellphone data being used to track people's locations during the pandemic.

Cellphone tracking is something I continue to receive correspondence about, and I am sure other members in the House do as well. As traditionally defined, our right to privacy has meant limiting the information others can get about us. The privacy of one's digital life should be no different from the physical right to privacy on one's property. Canadians must have the right to access and control the collection, use, monitoring, retention and disclosure of their personal data.

Privacy as a fundamental right is not stipulated in the legislation we are discussing today, Bill C-27. It is mentioned in the preamble, which is the narrative at the beginning, but that is not binding. It is not in the legislation itself. While the degree to which someone wishes to use this right is ultimately up to the individual, Parliament should still seek to update the rules using detailed definitions and explicit protections. Canadians are anxious to see action on this, and I have many concerns about this legislation, which I will outline here today.

As drafted, Bill C-27 offers definitions surrounding consent rules to collect or preserve personal information. It would mandate that when personal information is collected, tech companies must protect the identity of the original user if it is used for research or commercial purposes. The legislation outlines severe penalties for those who do not comply and would provide real powers of investigation and enforcement. It presents Canada's first regulations surrounding the development of artificial intelligence systems.

Even though Bill C-27 presents welcome first steps in digital information protection, there is still a long way to go if we are to secure digital rights to the standard of privacy regulation Canadians expect, and most importantly, the protection of personal privacy rights. As is mentioned in Bill C-27, digital privacy rights are in serious need of updating. However, they are not in this legislation.

I agree with the purpose of the legislation, but many of my concerns are about inefficient, regulatory bureaucracy being created and the list of exemptions. Also, the artificial intelligence legislation included in this bill has huge gaps and should really be its own legislation.

From a purely operational perspective, while the legislation would empower the Privacy Commissioner's office with regard to compliance, it also constructs a parallel bureaucracy in the creation of a digital tribunal. If Bill C-27 is enacted, Canada's Privacy Commissioner can recommend that the tribunal impose a fine after finding that a company has violated our privacy laws. However, the final decision to pursue monetary penalties would ultimately rest with the new tribunal. Will this result in a duplicate investigation undertaken by the tribunal to confirm the commissioner's investigation?

As someone who has operated a small business, I am all too aware of the delays and repetitiveness of government bureaucracy. While it is important to have an appeal function, it is evident in this legislation that the Liberals would be creating a costly, bureaucratic, regulatory merry-go-round for decisions.

Canadians looking to see privacy offenders held accountable need to see justice done in a reasonable time frame. That is a reasonable expectation. Why not give Canada's Privacy Commissioner more authority? Of course, Canadian courts stand available. The EU, the U.K., New Zealand and Australia do not have similar tribunals to mediate their fines.

In addition to concerns about duplications of process, I am worried that we may be leaving the definitions of offending activity too broad.

While a fairly clear definition in Bill C-27, which we are debating here today, has the consent requirement for personal data collection, there is also a lengthy list of exemptions from this requirement. Some of these exemptions are also enormously broad. For example, under exemptions for business activities, the legislation states:

18 (1) An organization may collect or use an individual’s personal information without their knowledge or consent if the collection or use is made for the purpose of a business activity described in subsection (2) and

(b) the personal information is not collected or used for the purpose of influencing the individual’s behaviour or decisions.

On plain reading, this exemption deals more with the field of human psychology than with business regulation.

Also in the legislation is this:

(3) An organization may collect or use an individual’s personal information without their knowledge or consent if the collection or use is made for the purpose of an activity in which the organization has a legitimate interest that outweighs any potential adverse effect on the individual resulting from that collection or use

There is also an exemption to consent that would allow an organization to disclose personal information without the individual's knowledge or consent for a “socially beneficial purpose”. This is defined as “a purpose related to health, the provision or improvement of public amenities or infrastructure, the protection of the environment or any other prescribed purpose.” Who determines what constitutes a socially beneficial purpose? This sounds incredibly subjective, and I have a lot of concerns when legislation is this vague.

Let me give a very simple example. Suppose a person using a coffee company app occasionally adds flavourings to their coffee while doing a mobile order. That company could recommend a new product with those flavourings already in it while a person is not physically in their business. Is this not personal information that is collected and used for the purpose of influencing an individual's decision, as in this legislation?

This example is not hypothetical. In an investigation from actions in 2020, Tim Hortons was caught tracking the locations of consumers who had the app installed on their phones even when they were not using the company's app. Tim Hortons argued that this was for a business activity: targeted advertising. However, the report from the federal Privacy Commissioner found that the company never used it for that purpose. Instead, it was vacuuming up data for an undefined future purpose. Would Tim Hortons have been cleared if the current regulations in Bill C-27 were in place and if it had argued that the data was going to be used for future business activity or for some socially beneficial purpose, which is an exemption in the legislation?

While I worry about the loopholes this legislation, Bill C-27, may create for large corporations, I am equally concerned about the potential burden it may place on start-ups as well. This legislation calls for companies to have a privacy watchdog and to maintain a public data storage code of conduct. This is vital for companies like Google, Facebook or Amazon, which have become so integral to our everyday lives and oversee our financial details and private information. Having an officer internally to advocate for the privacy of users is likely long overdue. However, while that requirement would not put much financial burden on these Fortune 500 companies, it could undermine the ability of Canadian digital innovators to get started.

Canada has seen a boom in small-scale technology companies for everything from video game and animation studios to wellness or shopping sites for almost every good or service one could imagine. Digital privacy laws should be strong enough to not require a start-up with just a few staff to have to be mandated to have such a position internally. We should ensure that a concept of scale is appropriately applied in regulating the giants of today without crushing the future digital entrepreneurial spirit of tomorrow.

I would like to address the presence of Canada's first artificial intelligence, or AI, regulations in this bill. While I do welcome the progress on recognizing this growing innovation need for a regulatory framework, I question whether it is a topic too large to be properly studied and included in this bill. In just the last few months, we have seen the rapid evolution of the ability of AI to create an online demand digital artwork, for example, thanks to the self-evolving abilities of machine learning.

The impact of AI on everything from our foreign policies to agriculture production is evident. Computer scientists observed a phenomenon known as Moore's law, which showed that the processing power of a computer would exponentially double every two years, and in the 57 years since this was proposed, this law has apparently not been broken.

I am concerned that most of the rules around AI will be in regulation and not in legislation. We have seen the Liberals do this many times. They do not want to do the hard work to put policies into legislation that will be brought to Parliament and committees to be debated and voted on. They prefer to do the work behind closed doors and bring forth whatever regulations they want to impose without transparency and scrutiny. We have seen the Liberals conduct themselves many times in this way.

Experts in the field have already made the case that Bill C-27 falls seriously short of the global gold standard, the EU's 2016 General Data Protection Regulation. Canadians deserve nothing less.

Though Conservatives agree with the premise of strengthening our digital privacy protection, this bill has many concerns and gaps. Clause 6 outlines that privacy protections do not apply with respect to personal information that has been anonymized. To anonymize is defined in the legislation as “irreversibly and permanently modify personal information, in accordance with generally accepted best practices, to ensure that no individual can be identified from the information, whether directly or indirectly, by any means.”

There are a lot of risks around this. Under this legislation, information could be disclosed in numerous ways, and that is very concerning. This goes back to what I mentioned at the beginning of my speech with respect to my questioning of Google Canada early in the pandemic about tracing the locations of people through their phones and sending it to the government.

The legislation creates more costly bureaucracy. It does not protect personal privacy as a fundamental right. It has questionable exemptions to protect the privacy of people based on ideologies. It allows the government to create large areas of regulations with no oversight or transparency and it is far from the gold standard that other countries have.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2022Government Orders

6:20 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, the member made reference to some things that were mentioned previously. I am forming the opinion that the Conservative Party does not support having a tribunal. I guess I am looking for clarification on that point.

Is it the Conservative Party's approach to say that, once the commission has made a decision, a tribunal would not be warranted and that the only recourse would be to take it to a federal court? What would it replace the tribunal with, or would it replace it with anything?

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2022Government Orders

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comment from the member opposite. One thing in this legislation is to create a whole new bureaucracy. When we look at the gold standard that exists in other countries around the world, and I mentioned them in my speech, they do not have a need for such an organization or department to exist. It is questionable where this came from.

Why not give more authority to the Privacy Commission and its commissioner? This is really not the gold standard that other countries have, and they already have a lot of regulations that are further along than what we have. The questions are, where did this idea come from and why do we feel we need this in Canada when a lot of our allies do not have this type of requirement?

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2022Government Orders

6:25 p.m.

Bloc

Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Mr. Speaker, this piece of legislation is intended primarily for the private sector. It is virtually silent on the subject of the public sector's duties and obligations. As things stand, it is up to victims to fight tooth and nail to prove that fraudulent activity occurred and that they themselves are not new fraudsters. This applies to all levels of government.

I would like my colleague to comment on public sector accountability for cleaning up fraud victims' records when the fraud was caused by the public sector's weak identity verification methods.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2022Government Orders

6:25 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Mr. Speaker, there is different legislation that is covered for the government, but philosophically, absolutely the government should be held accountable for keeping Canadians' information safe. We know there have been breaches over time. We had a recent one with the ArriveCAN app. There was information that was sent out to 10,000 people that was not accurate. We know there have been other breaches over time.

It is imperative that Canadians know that the government is also held to account for the information it holds in all the different departments a Canadian citizen might correspond with.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2022Government Orders

6:25 p.m.

NDP

Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, the private right of action would allow individuals and groups of consumers to seek compensation in court. This has been used effectively in the United States to remedy violations, but it is very burdensome in Bill C-27 to make it even usable.

For example, if the Privacy Commissioner does not investigate or rule on a complaint, an individual has no right of action. If the Privacy Commissioner does investigate and rule on a complaint but the tribunal does not uphold it, the individual has no right of action. These are a couple of examples.

Does my hon. colleague feel that this bill should be amended to fix this?

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2022Government Orders

6:25 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Mr. Speaker, one of the things we have seen over time from the Liberal government is building up bureaucracy, building up red tape and making things more difficult for people. Just as a general philosophy, any time we can strip away red tape, create efficiencies and take away bureaucracy, it is a good thing.

Of course, we need to have rules and policies in place. We also need to have the department serving Canadians, and that should really be its focus. It should be focusing on making sure people follow rules, but as soon as we get into difficult, bureaucratic regimes and a lot of red tape, it makes it more difficult for everyone.

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2022Government Orders

6:25 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to pick up on the question from my colleague from Beauport—Limoilou.

I would like to hear what my colleague from Kelowna—Lake Country thinks about the government's public data. Is it not time for the government to implement other ways to verify identity?

I am talking about at least a factor of two verifications, maybe even three. This may be data such as a password, but it may also be by voice recognition, by facial recognition, by text, and so forth. It may be time for the government to move on to something else.

Could we have more robust means of protecting Canadians' data?

Digital Charter Implementation Act, 2022Government Orders

6:25 p.m.

Conservative

Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Madam Speaker, I am not sure what the specific ideas might be but I think, in general, any time we can do anything to protect the privacy of Canadians, whether it is within government or within the private sector, whatever all those different levels are, it is a good thing. I know it is something people are extremely concerned about.

As I mentioned in my speech, I often get local residents reaching out to me about privacy concerns they have.

We need to do everything we can within our legislative powers to make sure people's personal privacy is protected.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

Public SafetyAdjournment Proceedings

6:30 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Mr. Speaker, the last time we visited this topic, we were talking, of course, about the Minister of Public Safety's claim that police had asked for him and his government to invoke the Emergencies Act.

We know now that this was not true. This is pretty consistent with the government. It is part of a pattern, a pattern of disinformation and a lack of transparency.

Since the minister made that false claim, we have heard the stories of the ArriveCAN app. We have more than $54 million spent on this app, which wrongly sent thousands of Canadians into quarantine. It could have been built for many orders of magnitude less, some say hundreds of thousands of dollars, some say, at most, $1 million, certainly not $54 million.

We cannot get the details. The Liberals will not even tell us who did the work. They will not even tell us who the subcontractors are.

While we wait for the government to slowly produce invoices for us, and as parliamentarians and Canadians pore over that data, I will note one of the hard-working staff members who has been on my team for years. He is tireless in his pursuit of the truth and answers and accountability, a great Canadian, Jordan Johnston from Victoria-by-the-Sea, Prince Edward Island. Everyone back home should be really proud of the work Jordan does. He was poring through the information the government gives us in drip, drip, drips.

We see a lack of transparency from the government at every opportunity. It promised in 2015 that it would be open by default, but it is anything but that, whether it is with the minister's false claims on the police requesting that the government invoke the Emergencies Act, which was really just used as a way for the government to punish people it disagreed with, or with the ArriveCAN app. It does not want to tell us which Liberal insiders got these contracts. It does not want to tell us who got rich on the arrive scam.

We are going to keep asking the government for answers. We are going to keep demanding accountability. It looks like it is going to keep misleading Canadians and providing disinformation to throw us off the trail of whose pockets are being lined and who is getting rich on these contracts.

My question to the government is very straightforward. It goes back to the promise it made in 2015. It speaks to the times we have heard the Prime Minister say that the story in The Globe and Mail was false, or the stories in the newspaper of late about what the Prime Minister said about having been briefed about foreign interference in our elections, when he will not tell us which 11 candidates were receiving cash from communist China. He will not tell us. He says those stories in the media are false.

The Liberals are not being straightforward with Canadians. We want transparency. Canadians deserve it. Conservatives demand it. When will the government finally be transparent with Canadians?

Public SafetyAdjournment Proceedings

6:30 p.m.

Cape Breton—Canso Nova Scotia

Liberal

Mike Kelloway LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries

Mr. Speaker, it is good to have a chance to debate the hon. member opposite.

We want to unpack a couple of things in the member's questions in relation to what we saw last winter. This past winter we saw a state of emergency declared in Ottawa with protesters blocking key infrastructure and harassing and intimidating citizens. We also saw interference with transportation and other critical infrastructure throughout the country, which was preventing the movement of people and essential goods.

The illegal blockades we witnessed were well funded and constituted a serious threat to national security. We knew through our engagement with partners that law enforcement had certain tools available to address illegal protests and blockades. Existing powers included those under provincial and municipal statutes in place to address traffic and noise violations. However, as all Canadians saw, despite those existing tools, the situation was rapidly changing and changing in a bad way. We saw it reach a point in which local law enforcement, for example here in the nation's capital of Ottawa, required additional assistance to address the unique situation posed by the illegal blockades.

We also saw that the economy as a whole was being affected by the situation, with the safety and security of Canadians in more than one province affected. We knew the decision to invoke the Emergencies Act was becoming clearer. Invoking the act was a measure, and the Prime Minister and others have spoken to this, of last resort, which is the situation we found ourselves in.

The new measures the act provided were additional to the existing tools, and they were squarely aimed at public safety and protecting our country's interests. The new measures were temporary and in place to address a specific emergency. They helped to prohibit unlawful assembly that interrupted the movement of people and goods, affected trade or interfered with critical infrastructure.

They also helped to deter the financing of the occupation and end material protests to the illegal demonstrations. They helped to secure our border crossings, bridges, airports and other public institutions. As well, thanks to the temporary measures available under the act, we saw vehicles towed, including, most vividly, here in Ottawa, where Wellington Street and the streets of the downtown core were finally given back to the public of Ottawa. We saw the act being used to bring about the peaceful conclusion of the illegal blockades at ports of entry, at the border, deterring unlawful actions and encouraging, in fact, peaceful protest.

On February 14, we invoked the act, at the right time, for the right reasons, in the right way. We revoked it at the right time, for the right reasons, in the most responsible way.

Now we find ourselves looking back, able to take a necessary look at what was done and what could be done, quite frankly, differently. Along with the significant limits and safeguards that provided, we knew that accountability mechanisms were also built into the very act. That includes the Special Joint Committee on the Declaration of Emergency scrutiny and the invocation of the act. It includes the work of the Public Order Emergency Commission, which is examining the aspects of the public order emergency and the Emergencies Act.

This is the accountability Canadians demand. It is exactly what they will get thanks to our responsible, timely and effective use of the Emergencies Act, just as the act intended.

Public SafetyAdjournment Proceedings

6:35 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the parliamentary secretary's response. I do not think I have had the opportunity to engage in debate directly with the member before.

Aside from what the government members perceived, and in spite of their discussions and their trepidations, the situation is that the minister claims something happened that is not supported by the evidence that was offered under oath by the heads of the relevant agencies: the OPP, the RCMP, the Ottawa Police and the military police. None of them asked the minister or the government to invoke the act. We know that CSIS has said that it did not meet the threshold required.

Canadians want transparency. They want accountability. They want honesty. When are they going to get it?

Public SafetyAdjournment Proceedings

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

Mike Kelloway Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

Mr. Speaker, I do believe that the process is doing what it is supposed to do, in terms of providing Canadians an oversight and overview of what transpired.

I would respectfully disagree with the member opposite. Last winter, as I mentioned in my statement, participants in illegal blockades and protests adopted a number of threatening acts, disrupting the peace and impacting the Canadian economy. Quite frankly, the folks in Ottawa and in other parts of Canada were under siege. I think we took the necessary steps in short order. The review process is showing that we did the right thing.

Climate ChangeAdjournment Proceedings

6:40 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is my honour to rise to take up a point that I debated in this place when we first had the news from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, in the spring of this year, that we have less time than we thought in responding to the urgency of the science. The panel reported that, if we did not reduce our emissions rapidly, we would lose any chance of holding to 1.5ºC global average temperature increase, and that we had to stay below 2ºC.

At that point, in my question to the government members, I quoted the United Nations Secretary General, António Guterres. He, when speaking recently of the promises made in Paris at COP21 in 2015 versus the delivery on climate action by governments around the world, said that some governments are promising to reduce emissions, but emissions are increasing. He said, “Simply put, they are lying.” I asked the hon. government members, when the UN Secretary General was speaking of governments that were doing one thing and saying another, whom did our government think António Guterres was referencing.

Since the time of my question, it has been clear that the government has provided additional support to the expansion of fossil fuel development. Now we have a very clear difference here, and I want to set out the problem because I want to be fair to all concerned. The government of the current Liberal minority, supported by the NDP in their confidence-supply agreement, appears to believe, or at least wants Canadians to believe, that reaching net zero by 2050 is a target that will ensure we can hold our increase in global average temperature to 1.5ºC, or at least as far below 2ºC as possible.

The Liberals put forward this notion, and they emphasized it again in the climate accountability act that was passed in the last Parliament, even though it is not true. It is not true that achieving net zero by 2050 assures us of a livable world. In fact, the science in the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's sixth assessment report makes it very clear that the 2050 target of net zero is irrelevant if emissions continue to rise in the near term. In other words, again from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a 2050 target without emissions must peak globally and begin to fall dramatically at the latest before 2025 or any hope of 1.5ºC or 2ºC is gone.

A 2ºC world is unthinkable, yet we are on track to it. Again quoting António Guterres of the United Nations, when COP27 opened earlier this month in Sharm el-Sheikh, he said that the world is “on a highway to climate hell with our foot still on the accelerator.”

Therefore, again, what government does the Canadian government believe the UN is referencing when it says that some governments are promising and doing the opposite? He said, “Simply put, they are lying.” As well, to whom does the government think it is referring to when it says “foot on the accelerator”, when we have a government that is insisting on building pipelines, expanding production and drilling off Newfoundland? Whom is the United Nations referencing?

Climate ChangeAdjournment Proceedings

6:40 p.m.

Winnipeg South Manitoba

Liberal

Terry Duguid LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. friend and colleague for the question.

I cannot speak for the Secretary-General nor speculate about which leader he is referring to. However, what appears to be underlying his statement is a deep concern with the state of global emissions despite several decades of international co-operation and political commitments. I share this deep concern and so does our government.

With less than a decade left to 2030, and with countries around the world quickly moving to a cleaner economy, Canada's 2030 target of 40% to 45% below 2005 levels is ambitious, necessary and achievable, reflecting both the scale of the climate crisis and the economic opportunity that climate action presents. This target reflects Canada's highest possible ambition in light of its current national circumstances.

Canada's 2030 emissions reduction plan is a road map that goes sector by sector, outlines the measures and strategies for Canada to reach this target and lays the foundations for achieving net-zero emissions by 2050. This plan includes $9.1 billion in new investments and a suite of new measures to help mobilize Canada towards a truly sustainable economy and becoming a leading competitor in the global transition to cleaner industries and technologies. This plan also builds on the strong foundation set by the pan-Canadian framework on clean growth and climate change and the strengthened climate plan. As well, since 2015, the government has delivered $100 billion in investments for climate action.

These efforts are working. Thanks to the actions of millions of Canadians, we have been able to halt our once-upward trend of emissions and bend it downward. This road map will build on this progress and chart the course to lowering emissions by 40% below 2005 levels.

Of course, ambitious action by Canada alone is not enough. Climate change is a global crisis that requires global solutions. Under the Paris Agreement, all have adopted national emissions targets. Like Canada, many have recently come forward with even stronger commitments. Still, there is much more to be done at the global level, and Canada will continue to play a key role and strongly advocate that all countries, particularly members of the G20, do their part to achieve the 1.5°C temperature goal.

We need more countries to adopt stronger targets and formal commitments to achieve net-zero emissions. We need to see greater public and private investment in low-carbon solutions. We need to see an even more deliberate and rapid move away from unabated coal. As we move forward in driving down Canada's own emissions, we will continue to engage with international partners from all over the world and advocate for increased ambition.

Climate ChangeAdjournment Proceedings

6:45 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, the exchange I just had with my friend and colleague, the parliamentary secretary, exactly explains our problem.

Canada's targets are currently out of sync with what the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says we must do. Spending billions of dollars on good programs is excellent, but while this government gives with one hand, it takes with the other. For climate action, absolutely promote heat pumps and electric cars, but it is a drop in the bucket while bucketfuls of effort continue to go to increasing our production of oil and gas, which when burned in other countries puts us on the highway to climate hell.

Our foot in this country is on the accelerator. If I do nothing more before I die than to get this Prime Minister to get his heavy foot off the accelerator, I will die happy.

Climate ChangeAdjournment Proceedings

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Duguid Liberal Winnipeg South, MB

Mr. Speaker, just to repeat, the 2030 emissions reduction plan provides a credible pathway to the lower range of our target of 40% below 2005 levels. Enhanced climate ambition from provinces, territories, municipalities, industry and the financial sector, as well as the acceleration of clean technology and innovation, and the deployment of that technology, will drive further reductions. These collective efforts will give Canada the accelerated momentum that is needed to achieve the upper bound of Canada's emissions reduction target and put us on track to net-zero emissions by 2050.