Debates of Feb. 28th, 2022

Russia's Attack on Ukraine

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have a serious question, and I hope the House can unite around how important it is to ensure that we have visa-free requirements for Ukrainians seeking safety. Several times today this question has been posed, and I really hope that we can get some unity on this tonight.

I would ask the member for Durham whether the Conservatives agree with the NDP's proposal, from at least 2018, to ensure that visa travel requirements for Ukrainians are waived.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as this is the first time I have had the chance to respond to the new member for Edmonton Griesbach, I want to welcome him to the House. I remind him that the Conservatives have been asking for this for many years. My friend for Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman whispered to me how many years and it has been four.

One thing I think we are very proud of in the House is the strong, deep, historical ties between Ukraine and Canada. We can facilitate those ties through parental, grandparent and family travel, through business relationships and through the free trade agreement that my friend, the hon. member for Abbotsford, helped negotiate. These are the indications of a mature and important relationship for our country.

I agree with the member, and I do think it is something we need. We also need to work with allies across Europe, particularly in Poland. We have seen 500,000 people already flee.

I want to speak for a moment about someone who works on the Hill who just moved here from Ukraine a couple of years ago. She is a friend, Daria Fesenko. I spoke to her a few days ago. All of her family is in eastern Ukraine, and they have had to hide out in the country away from the war being inflicted there. Daria is in contact with them every day, and like so many Ukrainian Canadians, she is worried about her family. That is why it is so nice to see the House come together tonight and so nice to see Canada assert itself alongside our allies. Whatever we can do to help in this time of crisis, we need to do.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this is an evening of remarkable consensus on all sides of the House in our support for Ukraine, its people and its brave and inspiring president.

I hate to find one small part of the member's speech to take up and ask him to rethink, but there was a notion, which he may not have meant to sound as strong as it did, that the government has spent too much time looking at things like climate change and needs to focus more on national security and the economy. Those are the same things: The climate crisis threatens national security and the economy, as a report that just came out today from the IPCC will further inform him.

I want to put to the member some words, which I think make it hard to say there is too much attention on climate change. They come from Dr. Svitlana Krakowska, who was the head at the IPCC delegation from Ukraine. Today she said, “Human-induced climate change and the war on Ukraine have the same roots—fossil fuels—and our dependence on them.” She continued, “We will not surrender in Ukraine, and we hope that the world will not surrender in building a climate resilient future.” These are consistent and convergent goals, not competing ones.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I note the report I referenced in my remarks, and I invite the hon. member to consult the report that our committee did in 2019: “Nation-Building at Home, Vigilance Beyond: Preparing for the Coming Decades in the Arctic”.

Climate change is part of preparing for the Arctic. In fact, at the request of the Conservatives, that foreign affairs report was the first report that a parliamentary committee prepared in the indigenous languages of the partners we met with on the ground. That was a Conservative request, because the resilience and vigilance we need to build in our Arctic are about not only the rangers for security, but also the impact of climate change, particularly on traditional ways of life.

The challenge I have with the government is that it will sometimes substitute these notions and ignore the hard-and-fast statecraft mechanisms we should have. The government completely ignored the need for us to be full partners in NORAD. That includes ballistic missile defence, and it means asserting our sovereignty in the Arctic and supplying ships to the Canadian Armed Forces. We have to look at the world the way it is, and that is what I hope tonight's debate can do. Let us make sure that Canada helps our friends in Ukraine, but let us also make sure we are prepared at home.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Services and Procurement]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Kings—Hants.

My time is short, so I will make some quick points.

Over the last week, the world around us has changed and we need to adapt. We need to change with it. Last week, people across the world were treated to two horrifying events that occurred at exactly the same time. The first is what we have been talking about tonight: Russian missiles dropping on innocent civilians in the Ukraine, an illegal act of aggression committed by Vladimir Putin and his regime against a sovereign, independent neighbour.

The second happened on our very continent in New York, where the Russian ambassador was chairing a meeting of the UN Security Council. The meeting was to discuss a resolution condemning Russian aggression against Ukraine, and after denying that Russia ever intended to invade Ukraine, the ambassador was confronted during the meeting with news that missiles were dropping on Ukraine from Russian territory. The Russian ambassador was then allowed to continue to chair the meeting, to which his country was the named party, and then when his country was the only one to vote against the resolution, he was able to veto it.

My first point is that the United Nations badly needs reform. Whether it is the Security Council or the Human Rights Council, where dictatorships that abuse human rights sit in judgment of democracies, we need to reform this organization.

My second point is that we need to hold Vladimir Putin, those around him in his regime, his military commanders and those who support this aggression to account. That means we need to find a way to ensure that we let Vladimir Putin know that he will be brought before an international tribunal. The problem is that this international tribunal would be the International Criminal Court, and Russia has not acceded to the Rome Statute. Therefore, in my understanding, this would require a referral from the Security Council, where Russia would hold a veto. Coming back to my first point, we need to reform that organization.

We all have been so incredibly proud to watch the resolve of the Ukrainian people. My heart goes out to all those suffering there and to the Ukrainian Canadian community. I am also part of a diaspora, and I think one needs to be part of a diaspora to fully understand the pain when one's ancestral homeland is attacked, no matter how many generations prior our ancestors were there. My heart goes out to those Canadians. My heart also goes out to the Ukrainians who are standing up not only for their democracy and freedom, but for ours and the democracy of the world. Canadians can be inspired and learn from Ukrainians.

My third point is that nobody in Ukraine today is asking who they voted for in the last election or whether they believe in vaccine mandates. People are pulling together against a real threat to their country. We can use this example as a stark reminder that there are a lot of threats to Canada and the world and we need to pull together and stop being divisive. We as members of Parliament can set the example that we can disagree with people without disliking or hating them. We all believe in a strong, united Canada. We are all here to defend our country, and we need to pull together.

For the last number of years, we have had warning signs of real threats to the world order: the rise of authoritarian strongman regimes, Russia's annexation of Crimea, repression by China in Hong Kong and its threatening actions in the South China Sea, the rise of Donald Trump and the rise of isolationism in the most powerful democracy in the world. The attack on Ukraine is a culmination of this and we need to rise to the challenge.

My next point is that in this battle, Ukraine is our friend and ally and Putin is not. There are not two sides to this. We need to fully support Ukraine. We need to do everything we can to make sure that the economy of Russia is absolutely destroyed so that Putin's act of aggression ends and he is replaced. I have been very proud of how Canada has led in this regard.

My last point is that we need to seriously look at increasing defence spending. I understand that military spending is not popular, but we are now faced with a world order that is changing and with new challenges posed by cybersecurity and disinformation. Russia is our neighbour in the Arctic, and we need to seriously consider whether we are prepared to confront this new world.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Mr. Chair, Vladimir Putin needs to understand that his invasion of Ukraine is totally unacceptable, and Russia needs to become a pariah on the world stage, just like North Korea.

Will the government expel the Russian ambassador to Canada and at the same time recall Canada's ambassador to Russia?

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Chair, as the hon. member knows, I do not speak for the government on this issue. However, in my view, that would depend on whether or not we believe the Canadian ambassador in Russia, who would clearly be expelled if we expelled the Russian ambassador, is able to find things out on the ground that we need to know. I have no personal objection to strongly considering the expulsion of the ambassador, but I think there are other things we need to do that are far more important, such as making sure that sanctions are imposed in the strongest manner against Russia and making sure there is so much pressure that Russians try to overthrow Putin. Finally, I am in agreement that Russia should not be part of international organizations as long as the Putin regime is in place.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague from Mount Royal for his speech.

I listened carefully to my colleague and I heard him say the word “cybersecurity”. In the past few days, Aluminerie Alouette, which is based in Sept-Îles, was the victim of an attack and it is suspected that Russia was involved.

Is the government prepared to face this type of attacks? What will it do in future?

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Chair, I thank my hon. colleague for his question.

Yes, the government is prepared. The Minister of National Defence answered a question today about cybersecurity. We absolutely recognize that we must protect government bodies but also all bodies and institutions across the country.

Russia is absolutely engaging in cyber-attacks and we must be prepared. That is why, yesterday, I proposed increasing funding so we can better deal with these kinds of situations.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Chair, it is great to see MPs across party lines united in their support for Ukraine and united in their condemnation of Putin. That is not the case everywhere. The member mentioned Donald Trump in his speech. It is appalling to see the former U.S. president praising Putin.

Putin's government has a track record of using disinformation to target democracies. My question is about how disinformation has been used by Putin and by his regime to destabilize, to undermine support for Ukraine and to justify this unjustifiable war. Could the member speak to what the government needs to do to combat disinformation online, on social media and in our communities?

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Chair, we need to make sure that platforms are held accountable for driving traffic to disinformation. We have seen, over and over, that platforms seek to monetize and make revenue and make sure that people stay on platforms for as long as possible. Hate is driven to hate, and people who believe in one world theory are driven to other conspiracy theories that they would agree with, keeping them on a platform longer. We need to make sure that platforms are not allowed to continue to do that.

We also need to make sure that disinformation is not only flagged but removed when it poses a threat to a nation's security. I think Russia has been the most culpable, but there are other foreign threats in this regard, and we need to take this very seriously.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for Mount Royal for his always unifying tone.

One thing we have heard tonight from a lot of parliamentarians is the call to waive visa requirements for those fleeing violence. I wonder if the member would mind sharing his personal views on the importance of doing so.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Chair, I think it would be appropriate to thank Poland and all the neighbouring countries around Ukraine for taking in so many refugees. We certainly have to make it easy for Ukrainians who are seeking a temporary or permanent solution to come to Canada. I am certainly open to any suggestions that would make it easier for Ukrainians to come to Canada.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Chair, it is an absolute privilege to be here tonight, albeit I just have five minutes to talk about a subject that is much more nuanced than time allows. I will try to make my remarks proportionate to what we have seen.

I would like to thank the member for Etobicoke Centre and other colleagues in the House who pushed for this debate. It is extremely important and timely that we are having it right now. I will join the chorus of my colleagues in the House, indeed individuals around the world, in condemning and denouncing Russia's egregious attack on Ukraine. It is unjust. It is unprovoked. Indeed it is against international law.

This is the largest mobilization of state-to-state warfare we have seen in Europe in decades. It marks a very nuanced and challenging point vis-à-vis the Cold War. I am 31 years old. I was born in 1991, right at the time the Soviet Union was collapsing, and this of course is very pronounced in the last 31 years that we have seen this.

The images have been horrific. I do not know if words give justice to what we have seen. It has been horrific but also inspirational at the same time. It is horrific in the sense that we have seen civilians killed. We have seen beautiful, peaceful cities which just a few days ago were not dealing with this now being bombarded with Russian missiles and bombs and with soldiers on the ground. It is beautiful in the sense of how we have seen the Ukrainian people come together in their resistance under the leadership of President Zelensky. Everyday Ukrainians are banding together in such a unified fashion to fight for their democracy and their freedom. It is truly, in every sense, incredible and inspiring.

I am going to take a quick moment to talk about the Government of Canada's response. It would be difficult to find someone in this House who does not support what the government has done to date. Indeed, there are calls for us to do more, which are warranted.

As the situation continues to evolve, we will continue to need to do even more for the Ukrainian people, whether it be providing lethal and non-lethal weapons or imposing economic sanctions, which we saw today are continuing to have an impact on the Russian Federation. The price of the ruble is dropping significantly. The fact that we have worked to limit the central bank from having any access to SWIFT and those global payments is doing important work. It will not change the dynamic overnight, but it will be an important piece.

I want to take the last two minutes I have to talk about the fact that not only do we need to continue to support Ukraine but we also need to recognize this is a change in foreign policy around the world. As I mentioned previously, this is the end of the post Cold War period. No one has a crystal ball to see where things may go, but the fact that Russia and China signed an agreement just four weeks ago, the fact that China did not vote against the Russian invasion as being contrary to the principles under the United Nations signals and access, should have all parliamentarians and Canadians mindful of that dynamic from a geopolitical sense.

Like other colleagues have done, I want to provide some recommendations that I think will be important for all us as parliamentarians, and indeed the government, to consider in the days ahead.

One is looking at Canada's propensity to feed and fuel the world. I come from a riding that is agriculture based. We have a tremendous capacity to feed not only Nova Scotians but also people around the world. How can we start to incorporate that into Canada's foreign policy by providing healthy, sustainable food particularly to our allies? If those trading relationships change over time, we should be at the front line of making sure we are providing that, similar to what was done eight decades ago during World War II.

We have to be mindful of our defence spending. I asked the member for Durham earlier for his thoughts on mobilization. It is probably early yet for that conversation, but we do need to be mindful of making sure our military, our Canadian Armed Forces, are available and ready.

I would agree with my colleagues who talked about the Arctic, whether it be for reasons of climate change, infrastructure, economic opportunities or our sovereignty. That will be an important piece.

I wish I had more time. Five minutes is short for a conversation of this gravity and as nuanced as this one is, but I look forward to taking questions from my colleagues.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague for his speech and his sensitivity. We can see he is concerned, as are all of us here in the House.

My colleague said that the government is prepared to do more. A number of solutions have been mentioned this evening, including expanding the sanctions to Belarus.

I would like to know whether there have been talks with our partners to implement these sanctions as quickly as possible, in order to hurt everyone in the enemy camp. People who have taken Russia's side are no less guilty of these acts of aggression.

Also, how can we better target wealthy Russian oligarchs, in an effort to hit the Russian president even harder?

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague for his question.

I think it is totally reasonable for our government to consider measures and economic sanctions against Belarus. Belarus is just as guilty, since it helped Russia attack Ukraine.

I think this discussion will continue in the House and I agree with the principle of the question.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Mr. Chair, this is an important debate we are having this evening.

In the last few days we have seen the spirit of people in my riding of Kelowna—Lake Country stand strong in making their voices heard in support for Ukraine.

I want to be clear that Vladimir Putin has created this invasion and human tragedy. It is not the people of Russia.

Central Okanagan is home to about 14,000 people of Ukrainian descent, myself included. I have been in touch with the Ukrainian leaders in my community and one of their asks is to immediately implement visas. As the official opposition, as Conservatives, we have actually taken it a step further and have recommended that on travel from Ukraine to Canada we eliminate visas.

Would the hon. member be in support of that?

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Chair, first of all, one of the points the member raised in her intervention was the fact that there is a separation between the regime in Russia and the Russian people. We have seen that in the demonstrations in cities across Russia. I want to go on record as saying we have to separate the Russian regime from the Russian people.

As to her question on immigration, I know our minister, as he mentioned today in the House, is exploring all options. I do not pretend to be privy to the information that he might have in cabinet, but I know that we will be exploring all avenues for Ukrainians who want to come to Canada to be able to get here. Any process to expedite that I certainly support.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Mr. Chair, we have heard a lot of questions and replies about what Canada can do. We have heard from the Conservatives that we should stop importing Russian oil, which we do not do now anyway.

I am wondering what the member would think about having the Canada pension plan divest itself of many very questionable investments many of which relate to Russian oligarchs. That money is used to create war. I am wondering if he could respond to that. My colleague from Cowichan—Malahat—Langford put forward a private member's bill in the last Parliament and it is something that the government should act on.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Chair, the pension board is independent of government, but I think now is the time for government to be looking at all tools available to limit the ability for Russia, for Putin, for the oligarchs to finance the war that we are seeing in Ukraine. If that were something that was available and there were ties, that is something the government could look at, particularly given the circumstances that we are seeing right now.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Chair, I will share my time with the member for Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles.

The attack on Ukraine by the Russian Federation, ordered by President Vladimir Putin, is the first European war since the Second World War and a serious violation of international law and our collective humanity. This attack threatens not only Ukraine, but also Canada, because our security has always been inextricably tied to that of Europe. Canadians know well the price we paid in two world wars in Europe. A hundred thousand Canadian war dead can attest to that.

This attack, coming on the heels of an autocratic pact between the Russian Federation and the People’s Republic of China, threatens the rules-based international order that has existed since 1945, an order that Canada helped establish. It is an order that has ensured the longest period of relative peace and prosperity in the modern period. It is an order that, if dissolved, threatens Canada’s peace and security here at home.

We support the actions taken to date by the Government of Canada, but more needs to be done. The government should expel Russian Ambassador Oleg Stepanov and recall Canadian Ambassador LeClaire from Moscow. It should seek Russia’s removal from multilateral fora such as the G20 and OSCE.

Diplomatic isolation is needed because diplomacy did not work. In fact, President Putin used diplomacy for his own purposes to disinform and distract.

The government should direct the CRTC to adopt a new policy to terminate licences of state-controlled broadcasters that spread disinformation and propaganda, so that Russia Today, RT, can be removed from Canadian airwaves, as should other authoritarian state-controlled broadcasters operating here in Canada. We must get serious about the disinformation and propaganda spread by proxies of Russia and China here in Canada.

The government should also immediately implement visa-free travel for Ukrainians wanting to come to Canada, as member states of the European Union already have done.

We must be clear-eyed about these proposed measures. We must be clear-eyed that these proposed measures are not going to stop the invasion in Ukraine. We must be clear-eyed that the measures announced to date by the Government of Canada are not going to stop the invasion in Ukraine. We must be clear-eyed that a middle power like Canada can only do certain things to counter the threat from Vladimir Putin and the Russian Federation. If we are clear-eyed, there are two things we can do.

First, we must understand that energy is vital not only to our economy, but also to our security. Russia understands this. Canada has not. Russia supplies 40% of Europe’s natural gas and uses this to intimidate Europe and Ukraine, threatening to cut off supplies. If supplies are cut, people will freeze, factories will shutter and Europe’s economy will plummet.

Canada is the fifth-largest natural gas producer in the world, but we cannot get gas to Europe to assist European democracies, because we cannot get pipelines built. Getting natural gas to Atlantic tidewater is vital not only to our economic interest, not only to our environmental interest, but it is also vital to our security interest. We were an arsenal for European democracy decades ago. We can be energy for European democracy today.

We must understand that Russia considers the Arctic its most important region. It has spent considerable resources there in recent years. Canada, like Ukraine, shares a border region with Russia, the Arctic Ocean. We no longer can afford to take our security for granted. We need a robust plan to defend Canadian Arctic sovereignty and security that includes purchasing F-35 jets, modernizing NORAD’s early warning system, fixing our national shipbuilding program, joining ballistic missile defence, and closer co-operation with Scandinavian and American allies in the Arctic region.

The world has irreversibly changed in the last week. We must get serious about the threats presented by China and Russia. That starts with treating energy as vital not only to our economy, but also to our security, and treating seriously the Arctic as crucial to our sovereignty and to our security.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Trade]

Mr. Chair, I know the member for Wellington—Halton Hills is a man who is deeply concerned with foreign policy. What I have remarked upon is the pace at which the international community has moved on this issue, in particular in changing from previously established positions.

I am going to point him to the example of Germany. We have seen, in a matter of very short days or weeks, Germany's rejecting the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, Germany's moving to actually fund weapons being delivered by its nation to another foreign nation in Europe, and Germany's backing the elimination or removal of Russia from the SWIFT system of economic exchanges.

I want to ask him about his view of the role of Canada in prompting that kind of multilateral co-operation and how we can keep that level of multilateral co-operation with NATO and other allies alive and well, going forward, once we get past this crisis and get Putin out of Ukraine.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Chair, the most important role that Canada can play is to bring members of the NATO alliance more closely together. The single biggest threat that has created gaps between the positions of the various members of the alliance is energy. Russia has used energy as a weapon, as a hard power tool, to cow and intimidate central European democracies, particularly democracies like Italy and Germany, into not taking certain positions in defence of our collective security and our collective defence with the threat of cutting off the 40% of natural gas that Europe uses to heat homes, power industry, produce fertilizer for agriculture and so many other things.

If we in this country can understand that energy is essential not only to the economy but also to our security and get pipelines built to Atlantic tidewater, we can help replace Russian gas in western Europe with Canadian natural gas and bring the alliance more closely together. That is one of the two most significant things we can do to strengthen our collective defence and security.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, I always enjoy listening to my colleague. I would like to go off on a bit of a tangent, though my question is related to this evening's topic.

Many observers of the conflict are pondering whether the international response to the invasion of Ukraine could end up deterring or encouraging China's designs on Taiwan. Should we keep that in mind as we analyze the conflict in Ukraine?

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think China is watching us and our allies very closely right now to see what we do in response to Russian aggression in eastern Europe.

The actions taken by western democracies today are going to dictate the actions of the People's Republic of China for years to come in the Indo-Pacific region. That is why we have to get serious about our foreign policy. We have to get serious about our defence policy, and we have to get serious about our energy policy. If we are clear-eyed about these interests, I think we can defend our values both here and abroad: our belief in freedom, human rights, democracy and the rule of law.