House of Commons Hansard #27 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was pandemic.

Topics

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

Mr. Speaker, we are all worried about small businesses in Canada. They are the heart and soul and the foundation of our economy in this country.

We will continue to provide supports, including what is included in Bill C-8, for small businesses. There is quite a bit of investment in the bill that would allow small businesses to be able to upgrade their ventilation systems, with up to $10,000 for that. That is a significant investment.

It will continue to help to improve the air quality and improve the ventilation for both the staff and the customers coming in. We have been there for small businesses, and we will continue to be there for small businesses moving forward.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Mr. Speaker, the Parliamentary Budget Officer said it is time for the government to stop spending money, like the $100 billion in the latest budget. I believe the Parliamentary Budget Officer is an independent officer of the House of Commons. What does my colleague think of the PBO's recommendation?

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

Mr. Speaker, we have, over the last almost two years, experienced an unprecedented pandemic. In order to make sure that we stabilize our economy, in order to protect Canadians and in order to ensure a solid economic foundation from which our businesses can pivot into a post-COVID economy, we had to spend a significant amount of money. Over time, we have actually adjusted and targeted more of our investments. We continue to target our investments. We will continue to do so until we are in a post-COVID world.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, everyone has a story, and I have been hearing a lot of sad stories lately. The story I hear most often from Canadians is that people think they are losing control of their lives.

It is not just the pandemic. This story is also about 30-year-olds living in their parents' basement because they cannot afford the $800,000 price tag on a typical house in Canada today. They have done the math, and they know they may never be able to buy a house.

Their story is even sadder when they see big investment firms and the very wealthy raking in money the government printed and buying houses and real estate in their communities, then renting those houses to renters who may never be able to own their own home.

I talked to a young woman. She started a business in the winter of 2020. Again and again, governments shut her business down. Her entrepreneurial dream was killed by government policies.

I have talked to immigrants who come here with degrees in medicine or engineering but cannot work in their profession because of bureaucracy at the local level.

I have talked to indigenous people who want to use their natural resources to create jobs and lift their young people out of poverty, but who have been prevented from doing so by governments.

I have also talked to indigenous people who want to be able to own their own home, but who cannot because of rules imposed by Ottawa, by a system that prevents this from happening.

Finally, I have heard stories from Canadians who were targeted for their personal choice. I myself am vaccinated, and I encourage others to do the same, but I understand that other Canadians have made a different choice.

Before we insult them, maybe we should listen to their side of the story. Maybe they had a bad experience with medication, or a doctor gave them the wrong medication. Maybe they have an unrecognized medical condition. Maybe they had experiences in other countries where governments lied to the public for nefarious reasons, and now they are suspicious every time a government tells them to do something for their own good.

The thing to do would have been to listen to the stories of Canadians who have hesitations, to have the humility to say that we understand that they are scared and we are here to answer their questions, and to try to change their mind because they are still part of our Canadian family.

Instead, our government took the insulting position of attacking those very people. Despite his own record of racism, the Prime Minister wanted to insult others, people he does not even know. He tried to get truckers fired, people who work in a truck all alone for 22 hours a day. These people are being targeted by a vaccine mandate even though they might be the least likely to come into contact with others. That is why the protests happened here on Parliament Hill.

However, there is something positive. Freedom is on the march. We see it across the country. In Alberta, at midnight, the vaccine passport was lifted. We saw—

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

The member for Mirabel on a point of order.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

Mr. Speaker, this debate is about Bill C-8. I am wondering if my colleague from Carleton is off topic.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

Members must do their best to stay on point in their speeches.

The hon. member for Carleton.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, freedom is never pertinent to the Bloc Québécois.

The same thing is happening in Saskatchewan. The premier announced that he was going to eliminate restrictions and the vaccine passport. The Quebec premier made an announcement about health measures. Prince Edward Island is also starting to give its citizens their freedoms back.

Now we are even hearing Liberal members starting to rise and speak against the government's partisan approach against Canadians. Two courageous members spoke out against the Prime Minister's approach and in favour of Canadians' freedom. I am therefore asking the government to start giving Canadians back their freedom, to eliminate mandatory vaccination, to allow public servants to return to work and to let every Canadian to take back control of their lives.

Our objective should be for Canada to be the freest country in the world so that each Canadian is the author—

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

The hon. member for Lac‑Saint‑Jean on a point of order.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Mr. Speaker, I understand that my hon. colleague is giving a pre-election speech for the leadership race, but the House is currently studying Bill C-8.

Freedom is important to the Bloc Québécois. That is why we want Quebec's independence.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

Once again, I remind hon. members to keep their comments relevant to the bill before the House.

The hon. member for Carleton.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is obvious that the Bloc Québécois is afraid and is trying to silence me. That is a good sign.

We are going to give Canadians their freedom back and make them the authors of their own stories. That is the approach we will take as Conservatives.

Everybody has their story, and the story that I am hearing right now is that people feel like they are losing control of their lives. There is the young couple living in their parents' basement, even though they are 30 years old, because they cannot afford an $800,000 house. They are calculating that they may never be able to own a home.

There is the immigrant who has come here as a doctor, but is blocked by bureaucracy from ever doing that job or getting a licence to practise. There is the first nations community that wants to harvest its resources to lift itself out of poverty, but is being blocked by government gatekeepers.

More recently, there are the countless small businesses that have been flattened by endless lockdowns and rules that often seem to have no link to science, and there is the trucker, who has been dutifully putting the goods and services in our communities, on our shelves and on our kitchen tables and is now called names and prevented from doing his or her job by a Prime Minister who is not interested in listening.

I am vaccinated and I encourage others to do so, but every person has their story. People have their reasons. They might be medical reasons or cultural reasons. They might even have had an unfortunate medical experience with prior prescriptions that has prevented them from making that decision, but that decision must be theirs. Their bodies belong to them. They are masters of their own decisions.

Instead of listening to these people, the Prime Minister has insulted them, called them names and left them with no choice but to engage in legitimate and peaceful protest. If he wants to put an end to those protests, if he wants to actually reunite the country, then he should do what others have begun doing, because freedom is on the march in this country.

Saskatchewan, Alberta, Prince Edward Island and Quebec are beginning to lift these restrictions. At midnight in Alberta, the vaccine passport came to an end, and people across the country are showing their support for restarting freedom in this country, including two of the Prime Minister's own members of Parliament.

Let us get these restrictions out of the way. Let us open up our economy. Let us bring back freedom. Let us make Canadians the authors of their own stories again.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:35 p.m.

Kingston and the Islands Ontario

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)

Mr. Speaker, I note that when the member was speaking, he talked about the protest outside being a peaceful protest.

What we do know is that many non-peaceful types of activities have been occurring. As a matter of fact, a number of his Conservative colleagues have also called out what is going on outside as an occupation.

I am curious if the member wants to comment as to whether or not he agrees that we should be asking those who are outside to leave now that they have made their point, or if he thinks that what is going on outside is totally legitimate and should continue in its current form.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, I do not want any of this to continue. In fact, the truckers themselves have said they will not stay here one minute longer after the Prime Minister ceases to impose measures against the freedoms of Canadians.

As for the member insulting the people who have spoken up, I encourage him to listen to his own member of Parliament, the member for Québec, a Liberal MP who said he went to the protest and saw a very kind grandmother who demonstrated for her grandkids. She looked and sounded nothing like a white supremacist, nor did the Black, Sikh and indigenous Canadians I saw demonstrating on my way to Parliament Hill these last two weeks or in Quebec City this last Saturday.

I have enough respect for my fellow Canadians not to engage in these easy and absurd labels.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:35 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his speech. I would never want to silence him. I hang on his every word when he gives a speech in the House. He is one of my favourites.

Now, he and I do actually agree on one thing. The government's handling of this crisis has been a disaster. We agree on that. There has been no leadership; that much is clear. I agree 100% with my hon. colleague on that.

While my hon. colleague was taking selfies with some of these protesters, some of his Conservative colleagues in the Quebec caucus were calling for an immediate end to the blockades in Ottawa.

I want to know whether my colleague stands behind his selfies or whether he agrees with his fellow caucus members.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. My position is that I am in favour of freedom. I want to end the blockade that this government and the other governments have forced on Canadians. That means putting an end to the vaccine mandates, giving the legitimate public servants who were fired over their vaccination status their jobs back, and repealing the vaccine mandate for the truckers who deliver our groceries and other goods.

Giving Canadians their freedom back will put an end to all of these protests and will help us start to make Canada the freest country in the world.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:35 p.m.

NDP

Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC

Mr. Speaker, allow me to congratulate the member for Carleton on his upcoming coronation as leader of the Conservative Party.

The irony here is that these lockdown protests have caused some of the worst lockdowns in the last two years. The member referred to unhappy stories. I have a few too. I have unhappy stories from workers and businesses in downtown Ottawa that have been unable to go to work or to open. I have unhappy stories from truckers who are stuck at Coutts and stuck in Windsor because of these protests, workers who are trying to move goods across the border and provide necessary supplies to our communities.

Will the member for Carleton speak up for those people to make sure that their unhappy stories are listened to by the rest of his caucus, and will he encourage these protests to end?

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, one person is responsible for this mess, and that is the Prime Minister. He caused this mess by attacking Canadian citizens and taking away their freedoms.

The rest of the world is moving on. Other countries all around the world are lifting restrictions. Provinces across the country are doing exactly the same, but we have this holdup. The Prime Minister is hunkering down and, out of spite and personal pride, is refusing to lift these unjustified and unscientific restrictions. If he would only do so, then the truckers could get back to work and the other protesters could go back to their lives and everything in Canada would get back up on its feet and we could get back to working on giving people control of their lives.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

Order. It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, Housing; the hon. member for Brantford—Brant, Pensions; the hon. member for Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, Veterans Affairs.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Adam Chambers Conservative Simcoe North, ON

Mr. Speaker, I feel like a baseball player who steps up to the plate after somebody has hit a home run, but I will do my best to follow the hon. member for Carleton.

It is my honour to rise today and speak to Bill C-8, which is the economic and fiscal update implementation act of 2021. The bill touches on several different topics, but I would like to focus on a few critical elements related to farmers, housing and what this bill represents overall.

For farmers, this bill quite simply is an acknowledgement that the government's approach has been wrong. It recognizes the harm of its carbon tax on farmers, but there is just one problem. The remedy does not go nearly far enough. Instead of discounting the carbon tax at the point of sale, the government is attempting to introduce a complicated rebate method. It puts an additional burden on farmers to collect their receipts, and at the end of the year they will get a fraction of what they paid in carbon tax back. A tax credit is not good enough. Farmers deserve much more than that. What is the science-based justification for treating diesel and gas differently from natural gas and propane?

I hope that all members in the House understand exactly how important farmers are to this country. When we live in cities and do the majority of our travelling by plane, if we take a look down what we see are beautiful farms covering the countryside. For many rural communities across this country, farming was the reason they sprang up, and it is the reason they continue to exist today.

Farming is one of the things Canada is known for internationally. Let me quote the Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance, which states, “Canada is the fifth largest exporter of agricultural and agri-food products in the world after the EU, U.S., Brazil, and China”, and “over 90% of Canada’s farmers are dependent on exports”.

Our farmers are competing with farmers from around the globe. It is a global industry, and farmers across the country, including in my riding, check the prices of global commodities, which help them determine and decide what to plant. They then follow international news to inform them of the best times to sell their products. A drought in Germany means farmers know their canola is likely to rise due to supply and demand factors.

When the carbon tax was initially announced, farmers were concerned. They knew they could not raise prices like other industries can. There was no way they could reduce the amount of fuel they were using, and increased costs come directly from their bottom line. That means they reduce the amount of money farmers can take home to their families at the end of the year, and the amount of money farmers have available to pay workers.

If it was not clear, farmers use a lot of fuel. A large tractor can hold 400 gallons of it. Thankfully, the minister understood that taxing diesel and gasoline was a non-starter, but that is not the only fuel that farmers use. Propane and natural gas are critical to farming. Natural gas and propane are cheap and efficient ways to heat and cool large buildings for many farmers, whether these are the shops they do repair work in or the places where livestock live in the cold winter months. These fuels are vital to selling most crops because of how farmers dry their products. Before something like corn can be shipped to market, it must be within a specific moisture range. It costs thousands of dollars to dry every month.

Last night, I spoke with a few farmers in my riding. They think this bill is quite clearly not doing enough. They sent me a copy of a few bills. I have a copy of a bill with me here. Just for the month of October to November, a natural gas bill for the farmer was almost $58,000. The carbon tax on that bill was $13,000. That is an unbelievable additional cost added to the monthly cost of operating that farmer's enterprise. Another farmer, Will, in my riding spends $40,000 to $50,000 some months on fuel.

This huge expense to farmers is why the Ontario Federation of Agriculture has been calling on the government to rethink the carbon tax application to farms. In March, the federal government needs to understand this, and to work to lessen the negative impacts of the carbon tax on the ability of farmers in Ontario to compete in both domestic and international markets. They may have asked for our understanding because it appears the government does not understand how much damage this is doing. That is perhaps why the Minister of Agriculture felt it was appropriate to say that the carbon tax was not significant for farmers after it was introduced.

I would like to point out that, like the carbon tax, it is a common theme with the government to not listen to Canadians when developing policy choices.

This is where I would like to thank my hon. colleague, the member for Northumberland—Peterborough South, for all of his work on the farm carbon tax file. He said the tax was crippling agriculture. Without his work, the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food may have continued to believe the carbon tax was insignificant. The member for Northumberland—Peterborough South called for an exemption to the carbon tax and put forward a bill to do just that for natural gas and propane, but with an unnecessary election called, that bill died with the last Parliament.

The tax credit proposed is complicated, it is onerous and it does not make it equitable with other fuels. There is an excellent solution here to help the farmers. It is quite simple and it is not in this bill. The solution is to provide a full exemption at the point of sale.

A similar criticism can be directed at the government on the proposed tax on vacant properties with a national annual 1% tax on the value of non-resident, non-Canadian-owned residential real estate that is considered to be vacant or underused. That is very complicated.

In the last election, housing was a major theme. Our party, the Conservatives, put forward a plan to limit and ban foreign investors not living in or moving into Canada from purchasing homes for a two-year period. This plan was well received. Really what we are asking for is a two-year pause to let everyone take a break so we can curb some of the off-the-record demand we see for homes that are driving the prices up for everyone else.

When we talk about housing, the government likes to point to a commitment to bring in a beneficial ownership registry, but like many Canadians, I am skeptical that the government will deliver on this commitment. It is absent from this bill and the government has a long history of promising something and failing to deliver.

The bill represents a disconnect that seems to have taken hold of the government. It is a disconnect between government spending and the consequences of that spending. The only policy solution the government has is to spend more money. That is the only solution that it has proposed over these last two years. In fact, it is the only policy solution it has proposed since 2015, since coming into government.

When COVID first arrived, it was unprecedented. Although I was not in this chamber at the time, I was pleased to see all parties working together for the benefit of Canadians to make sure businesses, families and all of us had the support we needed to get through the pandemic.

However, that time has passed and experts are warning the government to stop the rampant spending and pointing to the effects that spending has on inflation. We need a credible, fiscal plan with a focus on growth, not on redistribution, that acknowledges the risk that additional spending represents to Canadians.

I believe the buck has to stop somewhere. The House cannot keep signing off on billion-dollar pieces of legislation without a plan to find some savings or a plan for how to pay for it. There needs to be a debate where we can find savings to offset some of these new expenditures, which might be worthwhile. That is the very least the government could do. In fact, I would propose that the government, for every new spending measure it brings forward, finds an offset savings somewhere else.

This mountain of debt is not the legacy of COVID that we wish to leave for our children. They deserve better than this.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:50 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, it was only a couple years ago we heard the Conservatives stand up and give a lot of speeches about the carbon tax, saying it was bad. Then they minted a brand-new, shiny leader. It was not that long ago he was inside the chamber where the position they campaigned on was that they were in favour of a price on pollution. That is what they said. Somewhere they had a flip and they are now in favour of it. Based on the discussions and the debate so far on Bill C-8, they are like a fish out of water and they are flipping and flopping all over.

Is it the member's opinion that the Conservatives are going back to their Reform ways and adopting a policy position against the environment in support of not having a price on pollution?

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Adam Chambers Conservative Simcoe North, ON

Mr. Speaker, I do not know if it was just luck, but I am quite happy to answer another question from the hon. colleague, as he asked a question of me on my last speech.

Talking about carbon tax is really cold comfort to a farmer who is paying $13,000 a month in carbon tax. Where is that money coming from? I would like to ask this member about the farmers he has spoken to. This is what we are talking about, the impact of a carbon tax on a farmer.

It is important to recognize that some of these individuals and business owners cannot afford to keep spending and paying the tax increases. Therefore, we on this side of the House are going to continue to stand up for farmers and fight against a carbon tax that does not work.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:50 p.m.

Bloc

Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech.

I heard him say that the government is spending too much and needs to look at where it can cut back.

I have a suggestion for him.

The government spends billions of dollars a year on oil and gas subsidies even though it has very ambitious climate targets to reduce greenhouse gases by 40% to 45%. It will never meet these targets if it continues to subsidize the oil industry.

What does the member think about that? Does he agree that the government could cut the subsidies to the oil and gas industry?

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Adam Chambers Conservative Simcoe North, ON

Mr. Speaker, when we are talking about subsidies to the oil and gas industry, we need to have a much more fulsome and honest debate about what represents a subsidy. The truth is that the oil and gas sector represents a significant economic driver for this country and has provided much of the wealth, economic progress and productivity that we have seen in this country over the last generations.

I would propose, in addition to considering all spending measures, that it has been over 10 years since the government has done any kind of review of its spending through any kind of efficiency review. There is plenty of money for the government to look at to see where we can find savings to spend on the priority areas. As I mentioned, there might be some really good priorities that we should be funding, but we can find the savings for that, going forward.

Economic and Fiscal Update Implementation Act, 2021Government Orders

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC

Mr. Speaker, one of the things, as the seniors spokesperson for the NDP, that I have been fighting for that I did not see in this fiscal update was an actual commitment to the seniors who lost their GIS because of the clawback by the government. The most vulnerable seniors, working seniors across this country have lost everything in some cases.

I am talking to seniors who have lost their homes and are living in vehicles. I have talked to seniors who cannot afford medication. I heard a story not too long ago about a senior who could not afford healthy meals and could not afford their diabetes medication and, as a result, lost their life because of this GIS clawback.

I wonder if this member could speak to that and his feelings about what we need to do to treat the seniors of this country more respectfully.