Debates of May 11th, 2022

Questions Passed as Orders for Returns

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

Bill C-11—Time Allocation Motion

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, I see a great deal of excitement for my rising, which I am always happy to see.

I move:

That, in relation to Bill C-11, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts, not more than one further sitting day shall be allotted to the consideration at second reading stage of the bill; and

That, 15 minutes before the expiry of the time provided for Government Orders on the day allotted to the consideration at second reading stage of the said bill, any proceedings before the House shall be interrupted, if required for the purpose of this order, and, in turn, every question necessary for the disposal of the said stage of the bill shall be put forthwith and successively, without further debate or amendment.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Pursuant to Standing Order 67.1, there will now be a 30-minute question period.

I invite hon. members who wish to ask questions to rise in their places or use the “raise hand” function so the Chair has some idea of the number of members who wish to participate in this question period.

The hon. member for Red Deer—Lacombe.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Madam Speaker, here we go again. The House just went through the process of debating one of the most egregious power grabs I have ever seen in my time here as a member of Parliament with government Motion No. 11, which basically seizes control of the House. We know that the government used the argument that we need more time for members of Parliament to debate legislation, yet here we find ourselves in an arrangement between the NDP and the Liberals to grab that power. They are still moving time allocation.

This House is going to sit until midnight tonight. That is fine. Conservatives are happy to show up to work. We have just received notice that the House is going to sit until midnight again tomorrow night. That is fine. Normally, this House reserves the last two weeks of the spring session to have extended hours, but we are willing to do the work. We are willing to allow Conservatives and all members of this House to speak on behalf of their constituents, the millions of constituents who have trouble with the legislation that is before the House.

Canadians have a lot of trouble with this piece of legislation. This was formerly Bill C-10. The government is now censoring the House with Motion No. 11 and censoring the House with time allocation on a bill that will censor Canadians online. Why?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Madam Speaker, on the first point, on Government Motion No. 11, after almost five months of their delaying the economic and fiscal update, which is from, by the way, last fall, it became very clear that the Conservatives do not have any interest in allowing any government legislation to move forward. We continually asked how many more speakers they had and how much more time was needed, and they would respond, “We will get back to you. We will get back to you.” On and on it went.

The reality is that we had to extend the hours to make up for all of the House time that was burned by their obfuscation and, as well, look to move time allocation. The reality is that there have already been four days debating Bill C-11. There were six days in the previous Parliament, and there were 28 days at committee. We see a continued obfuscation. The reality is that this is an incredibly important bill to promote and support Canadian culture and content providers, so we need to be able to move forward.

I would, of course, remind the Conservatives that they moved time allocation just about every day I was in opposition. It is a quite strange to see their aversion to it now. It was quite dizzying to watch the time allocation motions they would move at that time. Now, suddenly, after they have obfuscated for four months, the tactics they used when they were in government are abhorrent and an affront to democracy, which is curious.

We have to move forward on this. That is enough of the blocking.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Madam Speaker, it is critical that we get some work done. Certainly, we do not want to be rushing legislation. We want to make sure that we are doing the work. That is why we supported sitting until midnight, so we can have proper debate.

I was thinking about how the Conservatives obstructed applying votes yesterday. We could have had applied votes yesterday. We had a vote. Looking at the record, we had another vote for which we wanted to see an applied vote, but the Conservatives wanted to vote on division, which they did. They voted on division not just once but twice, which delayed all of the committees that were sitting yesterday afternoon, so they sat later. Most members had previous engagements and commitments, so we had shortened committees on really important issues.

I sit at OGGO, and we had some really important witnesses on the biggest spend in Canadian history on navy and air force procurement. We had really important witnesses to talk about that. Instead, we had a shortened meeting because the Conservatives would not apply their votes.

That is the kind of obstruction that we are seeing here. We need to get to work, and we need to get to work now.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Madam Speaker, I completely agree with the point the member made. It is passing strange to me that the Conservatives say that they are upset they do not have enough time to speak, yet they move concurrence motions, which block their ability to speak. They did this on Bill C-11 in this Parliament when they cut three hours of debate time and stopped their own members from being able to speak. We have seen this obstruction happening on every level.

This bill, in its previous iteration, had 28 days at committee to hear witness testimony. It had six days previously and four days now. Frankly, based on the experience with Bill C-8, we would have been here for the next four years for them to still have their comments, to stand up and say the things they want to say.

The reality is that we have to move forward. They do not have the ability as one party to obstruct this place and block it from doing its work. It is essential that we move forward.

There will be an opportunity at committee. There will be an opportunity when it comes back to the House again. There were all the opportunities that existed before, and there are still opportunities at committee and when it comes back to the House for a further reading in the future. There is more than enough time to continue having these conversations.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Speaker, let us remember Bill C‑10 and the work my colleague from Drummond did. I helped him a few times because we were co-critics for arts and culture in the previous Parliament.

Now here we are with Bill C‑11, which covers essentially the same things. The Bloc Québécois has never stopped working with the arts community to make things better.

Here we have a bill that is basically the same and that the community is comfortable with. This is good work that has taken a lot of time and energy, and I think cultural stakeholders in Canada and Quebec are satisfied with it. The Bloc Québécois is very proud of this bill because we were very committed to it and put a lot of energy into it.

I would like to ask the government House leader why he is doing this to us today.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Madam Speaker, it is clear that it is time to act.

A lot of time has gone into this. The member across the way is absolutely right.

Bill C‑11 is very important for the artistic community throughout Quebec and Canada. Artists and people create a heritage and stories that are essential to our country. It is very important to support people like that.

After the last parliamentary session, after much debate, after much time spent at the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, after much time spent in the House of Commons, I think it is time to act. That is what people across Canada want us to do.

That is why we will carry on today in order to get to the next stage, which is study in committee.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Madam Speaker, I am very distressed that we are once again seeing time allocation. I understand the predicament of the House leaders not being able to properly schedule how long it takes to look at a bill.

However, it is not our fault, as opposition members of Parliament, that Bill C-10 was put back to the starting block because of the election, which we as opposition members clearly did not call.

With Bill C-11, we have had very little time in the House to debate it. We do need to have improvements made. That is clear. I do not want to appear to be in any way joining in any overheated rhetoric that the bill is about censorship, but the bill needs work. It does need to go to committee, but we need to discuss it and debate it first because that is what Parliament is for.

I would urge the hon. government House leader to consider that we enforce our own rules. We would have more well-organized debates if we had the discipline to say we would observe the rule that no member can stand up and read a pre-prepared speech. That would reduce the number of members who are truly engaged on a file and who are able to give a speech off the cuff. It should help organize our House time. I would urge the hon. member to think of that, instead of continuing to use the methods that were honed by the previous government of Stephen Harper.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the suggestion by my hon. colleague. There is going to be an opportunity to debate the Standing Orders. It will take place in June. It is essential that members take part in that debate. I, myself, always endeavour to speak extemporaneously because I do think something gets lost in prepared remarks, but that is a conversation for all members to have, to be able to reflect upon what rules best serve this place.

I share the member's frustration. My preference would be to work with all parties to be able to accommodate a calendar where we have fair and reasonable debate, but it has become clear, and it was over months and months with Bill C-8 when there was absolutely no progress made, and nothing offered to even get any progress, none whatsoever.

In terms of this bill, the reality is that Canadian artists and Canadian cultural producers, the people who tell the story of this country, are demanding action. It is time to move forward. There has been an enormous study of this issue. There is going to be an opportunity to move to committee to study the issue further, and of course it is going to come back to the House yet again.

Let us move forward. Our artists and our creators deserve that.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)]

Madam Speaker, from my perspective of sitting in the House day after day and witnessing what is going on across the way, it would appear to me as though Conservatives are just hell-bent on ensuring that absolutely no legislation gets through.

It does not even appear to matter what the piece of legislation is. It just seems to be motivated from this place of wanting to make sure the government is unsuccessful, regardless of what the issue might be. I believe that this is why we are seeing time allocation come forward.

Can the member comment on how he sees this and on the opposition's intention in playing these games?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Madam Speaker, I obviously share my hon. colleague's frustration. There is an expectation when we are elected to this place that we will continue to move the business of the nation forward. When we get bills before us that were debated not only previously but also, obviously and very importantly, during the last election, the expectation is that we are going to engage meaningfully in processes that will advance that.

Seeing all of the dilatory actions that have been taken to slow, delay, shut down and obfuscate, I do not think things are being done in the spirit of what people were expecting from a minority government.

The reality here with regard to the bill is that we have Canadian artists and producers who absolutely expect us to take action. It was run on by not just our party. Many of the opposition parties took action in this regard. Canadians expect it. I understand that Conservatives want to block it, but they are one party, and they do not control the House.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Madam Speaker, he has spoken a lot about these concurrence motions and about petty politics.

Can we have a guarantee from the House leader that we will not see a concurrence motion from the Liberals until after June 24, 2022?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Madam Speaker, what I absolutely will offer is the opportunity to sit down, as I have always said from the beginning of this, to work as we did on, as an example, Bill C-3. I have to say that the Conservatives came forward with a number of proposals on Bill C-3 to improve the bill, and we were able to do that. In so doing, we also created a calendar for when we were able to adopt it, to make sure we got Canadians the support they needed, both for the pandemic and to make important changes that the Conservatives brought forward.

I would say to the member opposite, as I have said to their House leader many, many times, that, if they want to bring something forward, if they are looking to improve a bill, or if they are looking to give us concrete information on how long they want to debate something, we would absolutely work with them.

I can tell members that in my time as House leader that has happened exactly zero times. Since we started this session in January, there has not been a single offer of that nature. There has been nothing put in front of us to improve a bill or to work with us on anything.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Madam Speaker, the only thing, unfortunately, we have seen is obfuscation and blocking.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I would like to remind members that, when someone has the floor, they should not be interrupting. We are getting a lot of it on this side.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise in the House to speak to the measure taken to move this forward.

On behalf of all artists in the cultural community in Montreal and Quebec, it is high time that we take action and move forward. The current system is unfair and antiquated. It should have been changed a long time ago.

Why not move ahead quickly to study the bill, improve it and ensure that people on the Web can participate in artistic creation in Quebec and Canada?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Madam Speaker, the hon. member is absolutely right. It is time for action. It is time to support our cultural community and the people who produce our heritage across Canada. The cultural sector has waited too long. We need to act now. That is why we are going to take the bill to the next stage.

Obviously, the debate and discussions on this bill will not end today. The study will continue in committee. The bill will then come back to the House for third reading, so there will still be plenty of time to discuss it.

However, it is essential to take action for our cultural communities, and that is what we are doing now.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Madam Speaker, first of all, I find it passing strange that the minister is citing as an excuse for time allocation that there was a lot of time for debating Bill C-10 in the previous Parliament, so I think Canadians would be interested to know that this is truly just a repeat of Bill C-10 from the previous Parliament.

I have a very specific question for the minister. The government is committed to providing a policy directive to the CRTC after Bill C-11 is passed. The government will decide, after this bill is passed, how it will impact things like discoverability, Canadian content and digital-first creators. That impact will happen after Bill C-11 is passed, so we are being told, “Just trust us.”

I have a very simple question to ease the minds of many opposition MPs: Would the government be willing to table the policy directive to the CRTC prior to the passage of Bill C-11?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Madam Speaker, the member will know two things. One is that the CRTC will only impose regulations that will make material impact in achieving the goal of the bill, which is specifically to level the playing field for platforms showcasing Canadian content.

We have a circumstance today where broadcasters in more traditional lines of media have an obligation to contribute back to Canadian culture and Canadian content, and it is only reasonable in the digital space that the same expectation be held. If Netflix and Disney are profiting from the Canadian market, the expectation that they are going to contribute back to the cultural fabric of that market is absolutely essential. That is not just something we ran on as a party, but many of the parties in this House ran on it.

I heard all over Canada that we have an essential obligation to support Canadian content and Canadian culture. This means that we have world-class talent that not only enriches our lives and helps tell the Canadian story, but, frankly, enriches the planet. Our obligation to say to those Internet giants that they have to contribute to the place they draw their profits from is something that is pre-eminently reasonable and levels the playing field with more traditional media forums.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Madam Speaker, the Bloc Québécois does not support closure motions. We believe that democracy must take precedence over all else.

However, we must deplore the fact that the official opposition does not recognize that the current Bill C‑11 is much better crafted than the former Bill C‑10 and that it could continue to be improved in committee.

Quebec and Canadian artists have been waiting for decades for something to change. The Internet has changed everything. It seems to me that the time has come to pass this bill.

Does the hon. member not deplore the use of closure? It seems to us that the legislative agenda from now until the end of June is not that heavy and that we would have time to continue the debate.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Madam Speaker, the hon. member is absolutely right. A lot of changes have been made to the new Bill C-11, which is before us today. That is important because, during the last election campaign, we heard a lot of opinions on this issue and on the need to support the cultural sector.

I have to thank the Bloc Québécois, whose members were behind many of the ideas for increasing support for the cultural sector and improving the bill in general.

I reiterate that members are going to have many opportunities to talk about the bill, improve it and amend it in upcoming stages, first at committee and then when it comes back here to the House. There will be plenty of time. This debate is just to move the bill forward to the next stage.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Madam Speaker, there is some confusion here in the House.

One thing that is really fascinating from the opposite side is that the Liberals are trying to create legislation for what they are listening to on their Walkmans or Discmans. These are things that people do not use anymore, and the Liberals are trying to create this legislation for things that people do not do anymore. They are using an archaic method, the CRTC, which is nonsensical, in the opinion of many Canadians. When we look at it, there is a new way. It is called “the Internet”. This is how people are now getting their information. They are watching movies on it. No doubt, they are listening to music on it. To think that we need to adopt this “Liberal government knows best” style of government to continue to indoctrinate people in Canada is really beyond what anyone could possibly imagine.

I think the other part, when we begin to think about time allocation on this, is that approximately one-third of Canadians are under the age of 24, so they would probably be the highest users of this information. From this side of the House, we think it is exceedingly important that we give those approximately 10 million to 15 million people their due diligence and understanding of what the government is attempting to make them do.