House of Commons Hansard #91 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was c-11.

Topics

Online Streaming ActGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

Hull—Aylmer Québec

Liberal

Greg Fergus LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and to the President of the Treasury Board

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from Kitchener—Conestoga, who is himself an artist.

I would like him to explain to all Canadians client why it is so important that web giants compensate artists and content creators. Can he explain how the financial framework changed in the space of a generation and why this bill is important?

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12:55 p.m.

Liberal

Tim Louis Liberal Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for the advice he offers from time to time. It always comes in handy, and I appreciate that.

The world is changing fast. It used to be a closed system, where our traditional broadcasters paid into the system to make sure they contributed to Canadian culture with grants and programs that artists could draw from to tell their stories. Right now we have two systems. We have the traditional broadcasters, which are in radio and TV and are still paying into the system, and we have our online foreign streamers, which are not. They are not paying into any kind of system. Sometimes they contribute to a production here, but they are not paying into the system itself, and that is the level playing field we need to see. If they are acting as broadcasters here in Canada, which these foreign online streamers are, they would fall under the same regulations and would have to contribute funds to our culture for our Canadian artists to draw from to tell their own stories.

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12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB

Mr. Speaker, I recognize that proposed subsection 2.1 provides clarity to some extent with user-generated content, but proposed section 4.2 clearly says that user-generated content or programs that generate revenue can be regulated. I am wondering if the member would at least acknowledge that this act would in fact allow for the regulation of user-generated content that generates revenue?

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1 p.m.

Liberal

Tim Louis Liberal Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

Mr. Speaker, I believe my colleague is in Dauphin, Manitoba, and I used to play at that festival, which is one of my favourite festivals of the summer, so he understands the importance of supporting our artists.

We need to make sure there is a balance between legislation and regulation. If we put everything in and do not give any flexibility, we will not have the ability as technology changes to make sure we can adopt to new technologies.

Right now the digital creators are still protected. Proposed section 4.2 does not say that they would be scoped in.

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1 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Muys Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON

Mr. Speaker, if I may, as my hon. friend opposite did, before I begin my remarks on Bill C-11, I would like to take this opportunity to recognize my father, as Father's Day is coming up this weekend. I thank him for all his love, guidance and support over the years. He is currently undergoing chemotherapy and is not feeling 100% himself. However, my three brothers, my mother, all of our extended family and I know he will be back to 110% soon. I just want to say we love him.

I am happy to rise today to speak about Bill C-11. Although I believe the Broadcasting Act needs to be renewed, I am deeply concerned with Bill C-11 because, in many ways, it is simply a revival of the flawed and failed Bill C-10 from the previous Parliament.

The government claims that Bill C-11 is being introduced to protect Canadian content creators. However, the bill fails, as many such entrepreneurs are opposed to this legislation. The bill fails, for example, Chad, who lives in Upper Stoney Creek in—

Online Streaming ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Bloc

The Acting Speaker Bloc Gabriel Ste-Marie

I have to interrupt the hon. member because the hon. Minister of Seniors is rising on a point of order.

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Brampton West Ontario

Liberal

Kamal Khera LiberalMinister of Seniors

Mr. Speaker, I request that the ordinary hour of daily adjournment of the next sitting be 12 o'clock midnight, pursuant to order made Monday, May 2, 2022.

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Bloc

The Acting Speaker Bloc Gabriel Ste-Marie

Pursuant to order made on Monday, May 2, the Minister of Seniors' request to extend the said sitting is deemed adopted.

I invite the member for Flamborough—Glanbrook to continue his speech.

The House resumed consideration of Bill C-11, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts, as reported (with amendment) from the committee, and of the motions in Group No. 1.

Online Streaming ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Muys Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON

Mr. Speaker, I was speaking about Chad, who lives in the Upper Stoney Creek portion of my constituency. Chad is a digital creator who is concerned about the threat Bill C-11 poses to his livelihood. Chad is not alone by any means. We have seen dozens of Canadian content creators testify at the heritage committee to their deep concern with regard to this bill.

Chad told me that Canadian content creators are thriving with open social media platforms and, in fact, 90% of all viewer traffic on Canadian YouTube channels comes from international audiences. Let me put that another way: Canadian content creators export 90% of their product. Every Canadian knows that the world is a consumer of Canadian content. Our talented comedians, musicians and other artists are the content creators, just like Chad, who do a fantastic job of making sure that people from around the world get a glimpse of our great nation. Therefore, why is the government failing Canadian content creators again? Prominent YouTube artist J.J. McCullough, who testified before the heritage committee, said, “I also worry that the dreams of the next generation of Canadian YouTubers will become less achievable once they're forced to navigate intimidating new regulatory hurdles my generation did not.”

It is the same government that is already failing young Canadians in so many ways. As they struggle to fill up their tank to drive to work each week, as they are no longer able to achieve the dream of home ownership, and as they struggle to keep up to the costs of living because of generationally high inflation rates, now the government introduces a bill that would place hurdles on the ability of young Canadians to succeed in one of the few sectors of the economy that has flourished during the last two years. Instead, it is putting big print media companies first. With respect to this bill, if it were really concerned about content creators, then why would it not put content creators first? Why are the Liberals so against it?

I know that Professor Michael Geist was a speaker at one of the committees. He is the University of Ottawa's Canada research chair in Internet and e-commerce law. He expressed this concern and I will quote. He said, “Canada punches above its weight when it comes to the creation of this content, which is worth billions of revenue globally.... We are talking about an enormous potential revenue loss for Canadian content producers.”

The article then states, “Geist says [that] would make platforms including YouTube and TikTok 'force-feed Canadian content' that people might not usually choose to watch, rather than curated content matched to their preferences.” It then continues, “If people do not select Canadian content they are offered, or if they indicate they don’t like it or choose another video instead, it could lead to content that wasn’t chosen, disliked or not watched to the end automatically being downgraded around the world.”

Therefore, why would this bill be placing power in the hands of the government to make these decisions? I might add that this is the government that cannot manage the passport system, as we have seen with the ridiculously long lines at Service Canada offices across the country. Why would we trust the same government to regulate content creation, which is a space which, by its definition, needs to be nimble, flexible and dynamic?

The concerns over Bill C-11 are not limited to detrimental effects on the livelihood of Canadian content creators, but extend to the right of free speech, which is a core identity of Canadians. If the last few years have taught us anything, it is that open social media platforms are vital and crucial for us as we maintain our social connections. Podcasts and the simple joys of sharing videos of puppies and kittens and such with friends could be heavily regulated and restricted if this legislation goes through. These are examples of social media content that have seen great success without government regulation, but that would be controlled by the CRTC, a bureaucracy which would needlessly clamp down on social media platforms.

The government is failing Canadians in the sense that it is introducing legislation that would reduce choices in content that have given Canadians relief over the course of the past number of years. What also gives constituents and I concern is the threat to the ability of Canadians to freely express themselves without government interference.

Poet Maya Angelou once said to watch people's feet, not their lips. The Liberal talking point is that they want free speech and do not want to curtail it. This happens to be the very process to discuss Bill C-11, and it is a sham. We are seeing the Liberals stopping and silencing debate, not just in committee, but also in this chamber. This is ironic, because the Minister of Canadian Heritage was recently reported in the Globe and Mail saying that the Senate is not going to look at this before the summer, and recently the chair of the CRTC, Ian Scott, estimated that it could take two years to implement Bill C-11. What is the rush? Why is there curtailing of debate on this bill in this House? Canadians need to stop watching the Liberals' lips and start watching their feet.

The impact that this legislation would have on freedom of speech is a serious concern for many in Flamborough—Glanbrook, who have sent hundreds of emails and made dozens of calls to my office, and I have to say the overwhelming majority are opposed to Bill C-11. As an example, Christina and Albert from Mount Hope emailed my office to express their concerns about the vagueness of the legislation and how it would allow for almost unhindered regulation of the Internet by the CRTC and, in turn, would influence what social media posts Canadians can see. Christina and Albert were also concerned with the possibility that those views that differ from the government’s might be more readily clamped down on in social media, because the CRTC would have regulatory control over the Internet. There are similar concerns from Harry in Lynden, in my constituency, as well as Arie in Mount Hope. Their overall concern is the limiting of the content they might watch or the content they might create and post.

I share the concerns of my constituents. We are proud as Canadians that Canada is seen internationally as a beacon of democracy, but this legislation and the limitations it would have on free speech are a betrayal of those freedoms that we certainly cherish and promote worldwide.

I know my time is winding down, so let me conclude.

For these reasons, Canadians are rightly concerned about this bill, its contents and the process by which it is being pushed through this chamber. This is why I stand with the people who have contacted my office and taken the time to call or write, with the people of Flamborough—Glanbrook and with my Conservative colleagues and urge everyone to vote against Bill C-11.

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1:10 p.m.

Glengarry—Prescott—Russell Ontario

Liberal

Francis Drouin LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. I also want to assure the House that the government, the CRTC, is not interested in puppies and kittens.

I am a francophone. There are 600,000 Franco‑Ontarians. Unfortunately we are not a strong market force. Is my colleague saying that we should not help develop my culture in Ontario?

That is exactly what Bill C‑11 does. The same content that is on television and radio goes into a fund to support francophone communities in developing their culture. If those same videos are streamed on platforms, nothing goes toward supporting our cultures.

Does my colleague not agree that we should be supporting my culture? Is my culture equivalent to his?

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1:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Muys Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON

Madam Speaker, I want to assure my hon. colleague opposite that I very much respect the francophone culture and franco-Ontarians. If members were to look at my CD collection, and I am dating myself by saying this, I had perhaps an equal number of francophone artists as anglophone artists, so I certainly encourage and respect that.

I do not think this bill is necessarily what is necessary to accomplish that, and I would note that the chair of the CRTC, Ian Scott, did indicate that this bill would allow the CRTC to regulate user-generated content, so that is the concern.

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1:10 p.m.

Bloc

Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech.

I share his concerns. He also made reference to people that he and his party consulted. Unfortunately, we have noticed that it is always the same person who is consulted, while the member for Drummond has long consulted all the organizations that represent content creators and the creative industry. They are in favour of Bill C‑11 and they also agree that it is urgent to pass it.

I would ask my colleague to explain to us the source of all these concerns expressed by the only person, just about, that they consulted.

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1:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Muys Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON

Madam Speaker, I did refer to one individual in my riding who is a content creator and who expressed his concerns, but as I noted as well, a number of content creators who spoke at the heritage committee raised similar concerns. My home city of Hamilton, Ontario may be not the same as Burnaby, which is the Hollywood of the north, but I think we are quickly becoming a destination for a lot of movie production and content production, so we take that personally as well.

As I said, there were hundreds of emails and quite a number of phone calls, and the vast majority were opposed to this legislation. It was not one single source at all. It is a concern. We are hearing that directly, and I did not solicit these.

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1:10 p.m.

NDP

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

Uqaqtittiji, I would like to ask the member if his party understands that the proposed changes in Bill C-11 include user-generated content creators generally but provide exceptions only to professional content providers who are generating revenue.

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1:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Muys Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON

Madam Speaker, given the brevity of time for a response, let me just reiterate this. As was pointed out by my colleague for Lethbridge this morning, there were five days of two-hour debate at the committee, which was shut down. There were committee amendments that were voted on by number, without being read into the record, at committee this week, which really is a sham. There were a number of people who wanted to present at committee and have their voice heard, which ended up on the cutting-room floor, because this was rammed through. I think that is really the story of what this is about, and the reason why we should be very concerned about the content of the bill.

Online Streaming ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

It being 1:15 p.m., pursuant to an order made on Monday, June 13, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the report stage of the bill now before the House.

The question is on Motion No. 1, and a vote on this motion also applies to Motion No. 3.

If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes to request a recorded division or that the motion be adopted on division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.

The hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.

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1:15 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Madam Speaker, I request a recorded division.

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1:15 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

The recorded division on the motion stands deferred.

The recorded division will also apply to Motion No. 3.

The next question is on Motion No. 2.

If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes to request a recorded division or that the motion be adopted on division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.

The hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.

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1:15 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Madam Speaker, I request a recorded division.

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1:15 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

The recorded division on the motion stands deferred.

Normally at this time, the House would proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded divisions at the report stage of the bill. However, pursuant to an order made on Thursday, November 25, 2021, the recorded divisions stand deferred until Monday, June 20, at the expiry of the time provided for Oral Questions.

The hon. parliamentary secretary on a point of order.

Online Streaming ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Madam Speaker, I hope that if you seek it, you will find unanimous consent to see the clock at 1:30 p.m. so we can start private members' hour.

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1:15 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

Does the hon. parliamentary secretary have consent to see the clock at 1:30 p.m.?

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1:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

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1:15 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

It being 1:30 p.m., the House will now proceed to the consideration of Private Members' Business as listed on today's Order Paper.