House of Commons Hansard #103 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was tax.

Topics

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, the Conservative Party's approach to the whole issue of the price on pollution can be very confusing at best. When we look at it, the principle of a price on pollution actually originated in Canada out of the province of Alberta. There are many other provinces with a price on pollution. In fact, these very same Conservatives have flip-flopped like fish out of water on the issue. Some days they are in favour of it and some days they are opposed to it. They have a a new leader and a new position. Then we get misinformation.

Will the member not acknowledge what the Parliamentary Budget Officer has stated? It said a vast majority of people, such as 80% of the residents in Winnipeg North, have a net benefit because of the price on pollution. Is she saying the Parliamentary Budget Officer is wrong and that 80% of the residents in Winnipeg North are not receiving a net benefit, as referred to by the budget officer?

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, I have been sent here to represent the constituents of Battlefords—Lloydminster, which is in Saskatchewan. I have always been against a carbon tax. I know how ineffective and costly the carbon tax is. I have bills here from a small business owner, and 25% is what he is paying on the carbon tax. That was before the last hike. What is that doing for the environment? I can tell members what it is doing for the business environment: crushing it.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Bloc

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

Mr. Speaker, I have been thinking about history, going back a bit and realizing that Brian Mulroney's government actually resorted to putting a price on pollution to address critical environmental problems at the time. We need only think of acid rain and CFCs.

I was wondering why it worked under Brian Mulroney and why, suddenly, under these new Conservatives, this pricing mechanism that allowed us to eliminate pollution would not work anymore. I would like my colleague to explain that.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, what is perplexing about “carbon pricing”, or the carbon tax, is this: What is it doing to prevent disasters? What has the federally imposed Liberal carbon tax done for the environment? I ask because I come from a province that it has been imposed on. How come it did not prevent hurricane Fiona? Where are those tax dollars going? What is it doing? It is doing nothing.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Mr. Speaker, under the output-based pricing system, Canada's biggest polluters pay the lowest carbon tax rate. I want to hear what the member opposite has to say about fairness on that and what we need to see. If the Conservatives are ultimately so against this carbon tax and we need to see a corporate tax rate on the biggest polluters, where does that need to go?

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rosemarie Falk Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, what needs to happen is the people who come to this place have to hear what their constituents are saying and bring that forward. I see on a first-hand basis that, because we have to drive where I reside, families have to choose.

That being said, we can look at companies and technology like carbon capture, for example, and things that industry is already doing. There are parties in this place that do not want to acknowledge the work that energy companies and the industry are already doing. It is only good enough if our energy stays in the ground and is not developed, according to certain parties in this place, and that is unacceptable.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON

Mr. Speaker, as always, it is an honour and a privilege to stand in the House of Commons to represent the constituents of Peterborough—Kawartha.

Today, I rise to speak to the Conservative opposition day motion calling on the Liberal government to eliminate its upcoming plan to triple the carbon tax. For those who are unaware, an opposition day sets aside a block of time on certain House sitting days when the opposition, the Conservative Party, can set the agenda. Most days the government sets the agenda. Today is our day to fight for Canadians, which we do every day, but especially today as we ask the government not to triple the carbon tax.

When Canadians are facing record-high inflation, a cost-of-living and mental health crisis and a growing housing affordability crisis, an increase in the carbon tax completely lacks the compassion Canadians need and deserve at this time. This increase would mean Canadians will pay more for groceries and home heating, and it would add up to 40¢ a litre to the cost of gas. Fuelling a vehicle is not a luxury to Canadians and the constituents in my riding of Peterborough—Kawartha. For many, it is essential for getting to work and school, for picking up groceries and for taking kids, if people have any, to hockey practice, tae kwon do, dance and all of their other sporting activities, if they can even afford to put them in one.

One of the biggest lessons we have learned from this pandemic is that rural and urban Canadians have very different needs, yet the Liberal government continues to punish those who have to drive to work or plow their field to feed us. The carbon tax disproportionately impacts those in rural ridings who do not have a choice in transportation.

The government argues that individuals will receive a carbon tax rebate. That is its claim to fame, that Canadians are going to get some of this money back. However, the Parliamentary Budget Officer reported that the carbon tax costs 60% of Canadian households more than what they get back in tax rebates.

As I have said many times in this House, our current affordability crisis is a mental health crisis and the two cannot be separated. This week, the CBC published its “first person” column, which amplifies personal stories that reflect contemporary Canada. In the column, Danielle Barnsley shares the actual cost of the current affordability crisis. She states, “Slowly, I watched the prices [rise] at the grocery store. The rising cost of gas. At first I thought it was me just not pinching pennies enough. It wasn't.”

She continues:

I cancelled subscriptions. I stopped eating out. When my kids are with their dad, I don't leave my house just so I can save gas money. It's like living in lockdown—from poverty—rather than the fear of the virus. I live off whatever non-perishables I have in the house and somehow cut my grocery bill by 75 per cent, but that has meant not getting as many healthier foods. The amount of fresh fruits and vegetables I buy has dwindled because it's simply not affordable. I've accessed the food bank sometimes when there just isn't enough.

I can speak from personal experience as well. In my riding of Peterborough—Kawartha, when I drive by the Salvation Army, which is an incredible organization, the lineup of people accessing food banks is longer every day.

She goes on to state:

My kids come first, my bills come next, and I go last. Every nickel is accounted for, every dollar placed toward something. Yet even with all the ways I scrimped and saved, it hasn't helped. It used to be paycheque to paycheque, now it's paycheque to 10 days before paycheque.

The average family of four is spending over $1,200 more each year to put food on the table. Grocery prices are up by 10.8%, the highest rate since 1981. Across the board, food prices are up by 9.8%. Nearly half of Canadians are within $200 of insolvency.

Taxing Canadians when they cannot afford to feed themselves or their family is not addressing climate change. It is causing further suffering and adding to our current mental health crisis.

Canadians by nature are very good neighbours. We are kind people. We care about our country and our earth. However, let us be honest. We must meet people where they are. How can someone be the best parent, partner, employee or steward of the land if they are barely surviving? We need to meet Canadians where they are and invest in technology that fights climate change, not triple an ineffective carbon tax.

There are so many solutions and alternatives we have presented in the House, yet no other party except the Conservatives are supporting these solutions: small nuclear reactors, SMRs; regenerative farming; carbon capture; and investing in our own clean oil, rather than dictator oil. We can do so much better than tripling a carbon tax that does not work. Canadians are tired of the false promises of the Liberal government. Canadians cannot trust the Liberal government. The Liberals promised the carbon tax would never go above $50 a tonne, yet here we are right now, fighting to stop three times that amount.

As a member of Parliament, it is my duty to bring the voices of Peterborough—Kawartha directly to the House. I asked my constituents how the current cost of living crisis is impacting their day-to-day lives. Here are some of their stories.

Kevin writes, “As a small business owner, I've had to up my rates to compensate for the insane diesel prices. That hurts my clients while still cutting into our profit margins, which were slim to start with. I'm making less, clients are paying more, and that is how inflation grows and grows. Raising fuel costs hurts all Canadians. No matter how badly they want us to switch to EVs, they simply aren't practical. Farming needs diesel, construction needs diesel and trucking needs diesel. This entire nation revolves around diesel; when it goes up, everything does.”

Let us acknowledge that we have a housing crisis. We have over 300 people right now in my riding of Peterborough—Kawartha who do not even have a home. If this carbon tax is driving up the cost to build a home, how is that going to help our housing crisis? How is that going to help get more houses built?

Here are some more quotes. The first says, “Rent prices have gone crazy, $2500 plus utilities. How do people afford to eat after they pay rent and utilities? No wonder mental illness is at a high, people are stressed out.” Another says, “Just switched from wood to propane as I do it all on my own and not getting any younger. $1500 a month to keep it at 58 degrees…. On top of everything else going thru the roof, I guess I will keep working 60 hours or more a week to make ends meet.”

The next one says, “As two small business owners, it's a struggle! Hard to make ends meet, but we take on extra jobs and become overworked! Nothing else you can do!!” Here is another quote: “Most of us aren't managing. We're sinking”.

When we talk about the future of this country how do colleagues think these stories are impacting our children? If parents are at the dinner table so stressed, that is, if there is even dinner, how does that impact the children in our country?

This week, a local news outlet in my riding reported that post-secondary students were looking to access shelters and being turned away due to overcapacity. A student was asking for advice about whether sleeping in a vehicle in Peterborough was safe. We have university and college students who cannot find housing. They are going to shelters that are already at overcapacity, and the government wants to triple the carbon tax. We can do so much better than this.

Canadians from coast to coast to coast are struggling with record-breaking inflation rates, with no hope for the future that, if they work hard and save reasonably, they will be able to get ahead, afford a house and feel comfortable and financially secure. The hope of home ownership has gone out the window for our younger generation.

Today, Conservatives urge the House to do the right thing, to meet Canadians where they are at, to give them the break they need and to scrap the upcoming tripling of the carbon tax.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Coteau Liberal Don Valley East, ON

Mr. Speaker, there were some very compelling points in the member's statement around the challenges that people are going through. I know that in my riding of Don Valley East people are going through a very challenging time. The member did speak about bringing voices into the House and standing up for affordability.

My question to the member is this. Will she be supporting a $1,300 dental care plan for young people and the $500 subsidy? That will really help the children in your riding that you referenced and the voices you speak for in this House.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

I would remind the member not to forget to direct things through the Chair and not to use the word “you”.

The hon. member for Peterborough—Kawartha.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is important to note what we are here to discuss today, and that is an affordability crisis. The more we spend, the more that drives up the cost for people to live.

There is no trust, as I mentioned in my speech, for a program designed to give free things. How do we trust a government that said it would never take the carbon tax above $50 a tonne? It is positioning the tax at triple that.

Conservatives will continue to fight for Canadians, their mental health and their ability to afford to eat and live.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Mr. Speaker, I sit with my colleague from Peterborough—Kawartha on the Standing Committee on the Status of Women and I thank her for the question. Although I am thanking her, I clearly cannot agree with her today.

Among other things, she spoke about clean oil, a term associated with greenwashing. My partner gives presentations about this and he explains that the terms “oil” and “green” do not go together. No, that does not work.

Last Friday, I participated in a march organized by Ami.e.s des boisés de Granby, who told me that the climate emergency and the need to take immediate action are real.

MC Gilles made the analogy that if you want to lose weight, you can eat at McDonald's for a few months or a few years to save money. Then you can take that money and buy salads or go to the gym. That just puts off the problem, whereas we must take action now. The climate emergency is real.

What the Conservatives are proposing, as they usually do in this matter, is a false solution to a real and much more complex problem.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON

Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of solutions we can look at when we talk about climate change. It is about investing in technology, not taxing people.

We have heard from many colleagues on this side of the House that this tax is not saving anyone, so why are we not looking at small modular reactors? Why are we not looking at regenerative farming? Why are we not looking at sustainable farming, and why are we not investing in local products here in Canada rather than relying on dictator oil?

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

Mr. Speaker, the member for Peterborough—Kawartha is also the Conservative critic for tourism. I am the NDP critic for tourism and here we are on World Tourism Day. I thought I would point that out.

This whole debate around the carbon tax, as if it is what is driving up the price of gas, Canadians are rightfully concerned about it. I was just in Vancouver and the price of gas was $2.33 a litre, and 11¢ of that is carbon tax. The big increase over the last year of a dollar came a bit from the world price on oil and mostly from greed. It is mostly from big oil and gas companies seeing an opportunity when world oil prices went up and inflating that price many times over.

The NDP is the only party here that I see proposing a real solution to that, and that is taxing that greed and putting a windfall tax on big oil and gas companies so that we can create funding for all the good things that the member mentioned.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Ferreri Conservative Peterborough—Kawartha, ON

Mr. Speaker, happy World Tourism Day. I thank my hon. colleague for pointing that out.

When we look at tripling the carbon tax, there is still no justification. There is no logic behind that. Why are we not investing in the technology? There are solutions. Forty cents a litre of gas on top of what we are already paying is just not achievable. Canadians are hanging on by a thread. If we really want to look at our future, our mental health crisis and this opioid and addiction crisis, we need to take care of what is in Canadians' bank accounts and give them the ability to buy food and afford groceries.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Kingston and the Islands Ontario

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Winnipeg North.

Here we are, once again, debating this concept of a price on pollution. Like the member for Winnipeg North said a few moments ago on a question that he had, the Conservatives are just flip-flopping back and forth on this issue repeatedly. It is like Groundhog Day when we get here to discuss the price on pollution.

I am going to read something for us. This is a proposal and it is called the “Personal Low Carbon Savings Account”:

Canada’s Conservatives will work with the provinces to implement an innovative, national, Personal Low Carbon Savings Account.... Canadians will pay into their Personal Low Carbon Savings Account each time they buy hydrocarbon-based fuel. They will be able to apply the money in their account towards things that help them live a greener life. That could mean buying a transit pass or a bicycle, or saving up and putting the money towards a new efficient furnace, energy efficient windows or even an electric vehicle.

This is from the 2021 platform that the Conservative Party of Canada ran under. Here we are, just around a year since that election, and once again Conservatives are back to railing against this idea of pricing pollution, when all of the members who sit in the House ran on this very platform with the words that I just read out to us. They ran on the idea of pricing pollution.

We get to this place and, once again, Conservatives are trying to suggest that pricing pollution is not the solution, trying to play, in my opinion, to the lowest common denominator here, to enrage people in order to get them to react in a certain way to government policy, but it is policy that they agree with. It is policy that 14 out of the 31 OECD countries agree with. Pricing pollution is the solution to dealing with carbon.

It is very simple. It is just about saying that it is not free to pollute. It is just like when one is manufacturing a product and one has waste that is produced out of the product. If we take that waste, what do we do with it? Sometimes we can recycle it if we are lucky. Sometimes we can recycle it at a premium and we are actually making money, but sometimes we have to pay to recycle it. Sometimes we have to pay to put it in a landfill. It is the exact same concept.

We heard members from across the way, earlier today, talking about a market mechanism or trying to influence the way that people make consumer decisions. Well, it is also the way that corporations make decisions. I will point out to us that this is not just about individuals making decisions.

Umicore is going to be breaking ground just outside of Kingston, actually in a Conservative riding, the riding of the member for Hastings—Lennox and Addington. This will be the largest battery manufacturing plant in North America for electric vehicles. They are set to break ground in 2023 and be fully into production by 2025.

The Prime Minister came to the announcement of that opening back in the summer of this year. Who was there? The member for Hastings—Lennox and Addington, a Conservative member, who was so excited to see this new opportunity in her riding, as she should be.

What I found really interesting though is that the question was asked of the CEO of Umicore as to why they had picked Loyalist, which is right outside Kingston, instead of the other options. Another option was Detroit, Michigan, and there was another location in the States. They were debating and deciding among this short list of locations.

The president for Umicore said that one of the defining reasons why they chose Ontario and, in particular, Loyalist was that they were a company that was producing a sustainable product and they wanted to make sure that sustainable resources went into the sustainable product that they were making. Because the vast majority of their production is done with electricity, they knew that the electricity in Ontario was cleaner than the electricity in the other two locations they had to choose from.

Now we are seeing corporations making decisions based on sustainability. It is no longer an issue of just individuals talking about making the smart, green, energy-efficient choices. It is about corporations investing and saying they want to go and be located where they have access to energy that is not produced in an environmentally unfriendly way.

I go back to the point that we have been through three elections now in which we have been talking about this. In 2015, we ran on the idea of pricing pollution. We were elected and we implemented the idea. Conservatives railed against it. In 2019, the electorate had the opportunity to weigh in on that legislation. The electorate decided that it was in favour of seeing through pricing pollution, because we know that the majority of the parties in this House support pricing pollution.

What happened in 2021? The Conservatives kind of came around and the previous leader, the member for Durham, said that they seemed to be losing the war on this front and perhaps people are in favour of pricing pollution and do not think it should be free, so he put it in their platform. He said they would run on this concept and tweak it a bit to be more like a rewards program, which is what they did, but they still ran on it. Still the electorate said no, the Conservatives' half-baked kind of pricing scheme that they were proposing was not good enough and the electorate was going to stick with the plan that had already been put in place and adopted.

Here we are, years later, five or six years into this since the legislation passed, and we are still debating this. We have been through multiple elections since then. I cannot understand why the Conservatives continually rail against this.

I heard the member for Cumberland—Colchester talk earlier today about letting provinces determine their own fate instead of forcing these schemes on them. That is exactly the point. The whole point is that we have set standards. This was done back in 2017 when the legislation passed. We said we were going to establish standards and that if the provinces' own programs met those standards then they did not have to have the federal government's backstop.

In fact, many provinces and territories meet the standards, including British Columbia, Northwest Territories, Quebec, Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. All of these provinces meet the standard and do not have the federal backstop of pricing pollution.

Some of the provinces are somewhat there, such as Alberta, Saskatchewan and Ontario, and the balance do not have anything in place and therefore needed that federal government backstop. It is a way to be equitable across the country and all provinces and territories with regard to how aggressive we have to be on this, but it is about letting provinces determine their own path, providing they can meet those requirements. That is exactly what we have seen. For the member for Cumberland—Colchester to somehow suggest that this is not in the provinces' hands is just disingenuous.

One of the things that Conservatives routinely leave out of this debate is the fact that, yes, the price of carbon will go up, but the rebate also goes up. That is why this is a market mechanism. That is why this is not a tax. It was never intended to be a tax. It was always intended to be a market mechanism to encourage decision-making, not just among individuals but also among corporation stakeholders, away from carbon emissions and toward cleaner and more environmentally sustainable options that could in turn produce a cleaner economy for us. Therefore, it is extremely important that when we have this discussion and when we talk about this, we need to remind people that the rebate goes up as well.

I would remind members that the rebate in particular will be going, primarily because of the decisions that are made in terms of the purchasing, to those individuals who need it the most. That is what we have seen and that is what the data supports. We know that ensuring that we are providing that money back will continue to ensure that people have options to pollute less by making the decisions they make.

It goes without saying that I will be voting against this opposition motion. We are well beyond this discussion. We have had it a number of times before and we have had three elections on this, including one in which the Conservatives supported pricing pollution.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have more a comment than a question. I learned long ago to never argue with a fool because they will never know when I am right.

The Liberal platform in 2019 spoke about a carbon tax that was going to be about $50 a tonne. Surprisingly, just a year after that, the Liberals announced that they were going to raise that up to $170 a tonne, which is almost a fivefold increase. At a time when Canadians can least afford it because of inflation and the affordability crisis, here they are raising carbon taxes again.

We are saying, give Canadians a break right now and give Canadians a break in the future from an affordability standpoint. Young people are neither fearful nor anxious. They are despondent right now, because they do not feel like they have hope for a prosperous future.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Speaker, that is great advice that the member gave at the beginning about arguing with fools, yet I still come back here day after day and subject myself to it. I guess I will just have to deal with it, because I keep doing it.

The member, again, is missing the most important part of this, which is the fact that yes, the price on pollution goes up, but so does the rebate. The member wants to talk about making life more affordable. I would encourage the member to start voting in favour of some of the legislation coming before this House.

We know that the Conservatives have just recently said they will support the increased GST top-ups, but what about dental care? If we want to talk about affordability and helping individuals who really need help, will the member vote in favour of that? Will the member vote in favour of some of the various other measures that have been brought forward by the government? I highly doubt it.

The Conservatives have perhaps been pressured into voting in favour of the GST top-ups, but I think that is where we will see the end of their collaboration with this side of the House.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Bloc

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. I know that he travelled a lot this summer in his electric car. He passed through Montreal and ordered his poutine in French. I checked.

The carbon tax does not affect us in Quebec because we already have an emissions trading mechanism in place. It is true that some sacrifices must be made. It is true that western Canadians must make sacrifices to reduce their fossil fuel consumption.

In a way, I can understand their anger. I can kind of understand the alienation they feel when they are asked to make daily sacrifices on their home heating bill while, at the same time, they see the Liberal government buying pipelines and financing and approving a project like Bay du Nord.

I wonder if the dialogue between western and central Canada would be easier if the Liberal government were a bit more consistent.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for bringing that up. Quebec has an incredible system, the cap-and-trade system.

It was actually Ontario, under the leadership of an environment minister with my last name, that went to California back in 2006-07. They negotiated that deal with California to put California, Quebec and Ontario in that agreement. Unfortunately, it was the first thing that Doug Ford threw out when he got into government.

I also want to commend the member for the initiative. He brought up my electric car and travelling through Quebec. Quebec has by far the best electric charging infrastructure in the country. It is light years ahead of many of the other provinces. We will see that Quebec will win the game as it comes down to it.

He asked a question about what to do between the various provinces and pipelines. I am personally not in favour of purchasing pipelines. I have made that case known. I have said it in this House before, and I stand by that position today. It is unfortunately one of the areas that I depart from some of my colleagues on, but I respect everybody's position on it, and that is my position.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

I just want to remind members to try to keep the questions and answers as short as they possibly can so everybody can participate who wants to participate. I see a lot of people standing up and wanting to ask questions, but we are running out of time.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. The NDP, the Liberals and the Bloc Québécois all agree that there should be a price on pollution. However, everything that the Liberal government does is cancelled out by other decisions it makes that wind up increasing greenhouse gas emissions. I am talking about the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion, the Bay du Nord decision and the increased subsidies for oil companies.

How can the Liberals claim to want to reduce pollution but then approve things that increase pollution?

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Speaker, the Conservatives are saying we are doing too much, and the NDP is saying we are not doing enough. Perhaps we are landing where we are supposed to be.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, what a pleasure it is to rise and address the issue of a price on pollution. It is an issue that just does not seem want to go away.

I had the opportunity earlier to formulate a question on something I wanted to expand upon, and that is trying to really understand what the Conservative Party is doing on the issue of a price on pollution. Over the years, we have seen many different types of positions coming from the Conservative Party. If we go back into the history books, we will find that it was the Province of Alberta that came up with the principle of a price on pollution. We have seen other provinces, whether it is British Columbia, Quebec or many, if not all, of the Atlantic provinces, that have seen the benefits of a price on pollution.

A number of years ago, when we first came into government after the 2015 federal election, we conducted a series of discussions, working with the different stakeholders and, in fact, other world leaders, as the world recognized the value of a price on pollution. People like Stephen Harper, the former prime minister, and Brian Mulroney, a former Progressive Conservative prime minister, supported at least the principle of a price on pollution.

We have seen the Conservative Party, in opposition, change its position. I remember when we first announced it, Conservatives were jumping out of their seats in protest against a price on pollution. As we got closer to an election, particularly the most recent election, we saw a change of heart. In fact, Conservative candidates across Canada in the last federal election knocked on doors saying they supported a price on pollution. They campaigned on it.

Now the leader who got them to convert and recognize the value, as people like Stephen Harper and Brian Mulroney did, is no more. At least, he is no longer leader of the Conservative Party. A shiny new leader says Conservatives are opposed to a price on pollution, and now there is an energy starting to come from many of the Conservative MPs I heard years ago saying they oppose it. If we listen to some of the speeches, we can see the misinformation they are trying to spread.

Eighty per cent of the residents I represent in Winnipeg North, according to the Parliamentary Budget Officer, will have more money coming into their homes as a direct result of the price on pollution. The Conservatives tell the constituents of Winnipeg North, my constituents, that they are paying more as a result of the price on pollution, and that is not true. I would suggest that my constituents and Canadians across the country look at what the Parliamentary Budget Officer stated in terms of the benefits to a vast majority of Canadians, and that they look at what other provinces are doing.

I would ask members to try to understand this one. The Conservative Party of Canada says it is a bad policy and it wants to get rid of it. If the Conservatives were successful, and heaven forbid that occurs, they would get rid of the price on pollution, but that applies only to Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta. Is the leader of the Conservative Party approaching the different premiers of our Confederation, saying the Conservatives are going to get rid of it in Ottawa and he wants them to get rid of it in those provinces?

Does he plan on compensating those provincial governments in one form or another to encourage them to get rid of a price on pollution, or is he just saying that in some regions of the country it is okay to have a price on pollution and in other regions it is not? If there was no federal price on pollution and the Province of Manitoba at some point in time in the future wanted one, would the Conservative Party say it cannot have a price on pollution? I do not believe that to be the case.

The Conservative policy really makes no sense at all. If we listen to what has been said by the Conservatives over the years, we understand that they are all over the place, and at the end of the day it makes no sense. I think they need to go back to the drawing board, like their former leader, the one who campaigned in favour of the price on pollution in the last federal election. Maybe they should invite him in and allow him to participate in that discussion. The Conservatives need to be more consistent in understanding the long-term impact of the type of misinformation they give, and should even try to deal with the issue, which many of us have, that there are many climate change deniers in the Conservative Party.

We have heard from the newly minted leader of the Conservative Party and many of his colleagues that he is this new economic guru of sorts. He actually made a statement, so my colleague from Kingston posed a question on it, as did our parliamentary secretary for tourism: What about the advice to Canadians about cryptocurrency?

Let us remember that when he was running for the leadership, there were two things that really stood out. One was that he was going to fire the Governor of the Bank of Canada. I do not want to say any unparliamentary words, but suffice it to say, that is not a good idea. Along with that was forgetting about the Canadian dollar and investing in cryptocurrency. He was contending to be the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada. Believe it or not, unfortunately, some people would have followed the advice, been intrigued by the statement and looked into it. I would suggest that many would have bought into cryptocurrency. Today, those who did are suffering great losses as a result of listening to the leader of the Conservative Party.

I find this interesting. Yesterday, I was listening to a number of the Conservatives talk about having a wonderful economic policy. I have not seen it. There is some room for encouragement, I guess, and we talked about the GST rebate to support Canadians during this time of inflation. I recognize there is inflation. Our inflation is lower than that of the United States and the European Union, but we can always do better. We are striving to do that, and one of the ways we are doing that is by introducing substantial legislation to provide relief to Canadians in all regions of the country.

We have Bill C-31, on dental care. The Conservatives are still offside and say it is a bad idea. It is the only party in the chamber saying it is a bad idea. However, with respect to Bill C-30, the Conservatives saw the light. Originally, they were against it, but I guess they did some math and figured out we are giving 11 million Canadians a financial break through the enhanced GST rebate, so over the weekend they made the decision to support it.

Let me give them some words of encouragement. If they are genuine in wanting to support Canadians and help them deal with inflation, why not do what they can to encourage the quick passage of our legislation, and at least Bill C-30? After all, they apparently support it now. That is some good, sound advice. I hope they take advantage of it.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the member opposite.

Just this week, in our local newspaper in Barrie, the executive director of the Barrie Food Bank was talking about how much more use there is right now. She is even seeing that some people who have historically donated to the food bank are now coming in and using it. She lists some of the reasons. Obviously number one was the inflation rate, which people are finding tough, but she specifically mentioned the price of gas going up. That is causing concern to the organization and to people coming in.

What would you like me to go back and tell the executive director when we are talking about raising the carbon tax, which you seem to feel is fine going forward? I understand there is a climate situation, but these people are struggling out there, and I have to tell them if it is either going up a few more cents, as you say, or going up by three times, which is what I hear. Please tell me what I am supposed to go back and tell the executive director of the Barrie Food Bank.

Opposition Motion—Carbon TaxBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

I would remind folks to ask questions without speaking directly to members.

The hon. parliamentary secretary.