Debates of Feb. 2nd, 2023

Opposition Motion—Bail Reform

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I have to allow for an answer.

The hon. leader of the official opposition.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Madam Speaker, we know the member's approach. Her approach, along with her coalition partner, the Prime Minister, has been an absolute disaster everywhere it has been tried.

In Vancouver today, we have a more than 300% increase in the number of people who have died of drug overdoses. We have a 32% increase in violent crime right across the country. That member should take personal responsibility for her involvement in the Prime Minister's agenda that has led to that disastrous outcome.

We will take no lessons from the member or her disastrous radical NDP approach, which floods our communities with dangerous drugs and puts the most violent offenders out on our streets.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Speaker, it has been eight years of the Prime Minister and thousands of new victims of crime across Canada in those eight years.

I stand here not only as the voice of my constituents in Thornhill, but also as the voice of thousands of people in every corner of the country who want us to start taking the safety of our communities more seriously.

I grew up in the place that I represent in the House of Commons today and I have spent almost my whole life living in the Toronto area. Even though the city is home to millions, we have always been blessed to have a feeling of big-city safety. That is not often found elsewhere. For years, we rode transit without fearing the random attacks. Now all we have to do is open the newspaper, go to Twitter or turn on the news to see violent attack after violent attack throughout the last number of months.

We gathered in public places with our loved ones and we were free to do the things we wanted to do whenever we wanted to do them without fear. We went about our daily lives, safe from criminals and the people who wanted to harm others, for the most part. We used to feel safe in the city. That feeling is fading away. All one has to do is open the newspaper to see it.

With every day that passes comes another story about the out-of-control violence in our streets and the innocent people who are being terrorized by it: stories of people being stabbed in the head and face with ice picks; stories about people being swarmed and beaten, in some cases by teenagers, or pushed in front of moving trains or shoved to the ground; stories about people being set on fire in the biggest city in our country.

All the recent attacks, the ones have outlined a number of times, were random. All of these attacks were in Canada. The GTA is used to making international news, it is a big place, but not international news like this. Last week, it was on the BBC. A few weeks ago, it was in the New York Times. Even my hometown of Vaughan made it onto CNN last December after a horrific shooting.

We are obviously seeing more of this. The rate is rising. The stats are clear. Rising crime is not just something that is tearing into my community and it is not isolated. It is something that is happening in every neighbourhood across the country. It is happening in Vancouver where entire sections of the city are being taken over by out-of-control drug and gang activity. It is happening in rural communities, where only 18% of all Canadians live but 25% of violent crimes take place. Those numbers are shocking.

There were more homicides in our nation in 2019 than in 2018. There were more in 2020 than in 2019. There were more in 2021 than in 2020. That is a pattern and somebody has to say it. Things are not okay because each day we see more suffering in our communities and more inaction or, frankly, not the right action in our Parliament.

While our neighbourhoods are affected by crime, the Liberals are busy telling us, once again, that it is somebody else’s fault or it is somebody else’s job, deflecting blame and denying guilt again. However, the stats are clear; we only need to turn on the news.

While families are grieving the loss of loved ones to violence, the Liberals are busy reducing the penalties for heinous acts like robbery with a firearm, fentanyl trafficking that is ravaging the streets in places like Vancouver, or in smaller places like Peterborough and London or places like right outside the House. Kidnapping is also on the list.

While victims of crime are struggling to get justice, the Liberals are standing by their policies and making it easier for the very people who are responsible for those crimes to go back out in the world and do it all over again. The Liberals are standing by Bill C-75, which is what we are talking about today. It makes it easier to get bail, easier to be let out of custody, easier for criminals to go back to their illegal activities and harm even more people. It is broken. What we are doing is not working and everybody else knows it.

Last year in Toronto, there were 44 shooting-related murders. Seven of those arrested were out on bail already for charges of gun crime and 17 of those were out on bail for other crimes. If people are keeping score that is more than half. Of the 44 murders in the city in which I have spent most of my life, more than half, or 24, of those accused were out on bail; 24 additional families that lost loved ones because of the Liberal broken bail system. Every premier says that the system is broken along with every police union and police chief.

If we listen to everyone else who is talking about it, they say that bail reform could save lives. There are a lot of other things that we can talk about, but not talking about this when we know it can save lives would be irresponsible.

In 2021, 165 people in Toronto, who were out on bail for gun charges, were arrested, including 98 people who were arrested on gun charges. It is broken and what we are doing is not working, and everybody agrees.

Since the Liberals have been in power, violent crime has increased by 32%. Gang-related homicides have increased by a staggering 92%. Car jacking has doubled in Toronto. Property theft has gone up. It has all gone up; it is broken. What we are doing simply is not working. Our laws are broken.

It is shocking that the Liberal member for Scarborough Southwest is a cabinet minister and former Toronto police chief, and he said more about crime in Memphis last week than he has said about crime in his own city. That is disgraceful.

Today, Liberal members continue to insist that everything is fine, that nothing is wrong and that they are working on it. There was a meeting last November where all premiers and the federal government agreed to do something, and there is still nothing.

All 13 premiers have written a demand letter to the Prime Minister to fix our broken bail system. The voices are united. It is police officers, it is frontline officers, it is police unions and it is people on our front lines who are all begging the government to do something about it.

We will always stand on the side of law enforcement in our country. We are also going to stand on the side of victims of crime, and not on the side of criminals. We are going to stand for ending soft-on-crime laws like Bill C-75 that put the rights of criminals above those of the victims. That is wrong. All we have to do is open a newspaper to read about it.

We are here today to demand action because if the Liberals will not anything, we will. If they are not prepared to make a change, to do their job and protect Canadians, they should step aside and let somebody else do it.

It is not about some archaic regulation. It is not about political posturing. Everybody agrees. All premiers from different stripes agree. The mayor of my hometown, who just ran for the provincial Liberal leadership, wrote a demand letter to the Prime Minister asking for bail reform.

This is not a Conservative issue. It is an issue that speaks to public safety and to the protection of the rights of victims over the rights of criminals.

Our proposal is simple: prioritize the rights of victims and law-abiding citizens, not the criminals, and fix the broken bail system that lets murderers and repeat offenders out, free to recommit crimes in the community.

We need to bring back penalties and punishments that actually fit the crime, particularly for violent repeat offenders. We need to fight crime where it exists, at our borders and in gangs, not in the home of law-abiding firearm owners or hunters.

It is time to go back to the time when people felt safe in their communities, where people can walk on the streets without being randomly attacked, where criminals are punished for the crimes they commit, where Canadians have the right to travel wherever they want whenever they want and be free of fear on public transit, to go out in public with their families and feel safe.

I hope all members, on behalf of their communities, their constituents and their loved ones, stand up for those rights. We can do that by passing this motion today. I hope hon. colleagues in the House see that too.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Madam Speaker, being called a radical by folks who hang out with far-right radical extremists and take photos with people like Jeremy Mackenzie, who is now facing criminal charges, threats with criminal harassment, and saying that they stand onside with law-abiding citizens, not victims, is pretty rich. I am pretty complimented about that.

The members talk about listening to law enforcement. In the City of Winnipeg, the Winnipeg city police came out in support of harm reduction as a crime reduction strategy. The Conservatives pride themselves on being tough on crime. Will they agree with the Winnipeg city police and support harm reduction approaches?

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Speaker, on bail reform, we absolutely agree with the frontline police officers, including those in Winnipeg, who have called for bail reform. We agree with the 13 premiers who have all agreed that the Prime Minister needs to fix bail reform. If the member opposite wants to get up and yell at the government and then support them at every juncture, she is free to do so.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Madam Speaker, Bill C-75 was definitely not perfect. There were many ways it could have been improved. However, we must not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

It is also important to take a broader view of the situation and ask what causes the violence. A child is not born violent. Various aspects of a person's life leads them down that road.

Across Canada, social services have been greatly affected by cuts to health transfers over the past 30 years. Are those services still effective? Should we not be reinvesting in health?

Therein may lie part of the solution. It will not happen overnight, but over the long term. Health transfers have suffered 30 years of cuts, and it is time for that to change.

I would like to hear from my colleague on this issue.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am happy to hear that my hon. colleague believes there is a problem in our bail system and that she is willing to support some reform. That is exactly why we are here today, and I hope that she supports this motion. There is no disagreement that it needs work. This is not about a young person who made a mistake who we are putting away forever. That is not what Conservatives do, so any suggestion of that, frankly, is just false.

I know that there are bigger problems, but it starts here and it starts with bail reform. There are hundreds of frontline police officers out in the streets who have said that this will save lives, so I hope that she supports that.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)]

Madam Speaker, in the speech given by the member and, indeed, the comments made by several Conservatives today, they have been citing statistics that I cannot seem to find anywhere. They said that they are from Statistics Canada. However, based on the numbers they have been talking about with respect to crime rates and whatnot, I am unable to locate the information.

Can the member restate exactly what those numbers are and exactly where I can find them so that I can look at them myself?

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Speaker, I will be happy to table the crime statistics in the House from Statistics Canada. One of the statistics I stated was that of the 44 murders in Toronto, 24 were committed by those on bail. That is from the police chief of Toronto.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Madam Speaker, it is really disappointing and sad, quite frankly, to hear the other members of the House talk about this motion in terms of rhetorical or playing to a base. These are very real problems happening in our country. There are organizations, police chiefs, big-city mayors and police associations that are all coming together to ask for bail reform in a non-partisan manner.

I am wondering if the hon. member could comment a little more on that.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Speaker, I think that we saw, by who led off this debate, the Minister of Public Safety and the Minister of Justice in this country, that the Liberals know this is a problem. The Liberals know they have not dealt with the problem. The Liberals know that everybody has been asking for bail reform in this country. I look forward to actually seeing and hearing them say they are going to do this and they are going to support this motion.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak to the motion brought by the hon. member of Parliament for Fundy Royal. I would like to split my time with the member for Kingston and the Islands.

First and foremost, I would like to acknowledge the tragic and disturbing events involving the recent deaths of several police officers in this country. It is beyond words to describe how that profoundly shocks our communities when those who dedicate their lives to serve and protect others from harm become the victims of horrendous acts of violence. It is also unimaginable what grief the families of these officers must be experiencing, and my heartfelt thoughts and condolences go out to them.

I recently had an in-depth and substantial conversation with our chief of police in Peel and his team to talk about what kinds of issues really concern our communities, especially mine in Mississauga—Erin Mills. The number one issues that we touched on and talked about were gender-based violence, the use of guns within our communities, car thefts and how we can prevent all of those. We talked about the limitations that the police force faces in terms of providing that support.

One thing that really struck me was the conversation about what exactly we are trying to do when we serve and protect our communities. What perspective are we taking in terms of creating a legal framework and providing the administration of justice in our country at the base of our communities? Are we trying to punish offenders, casting a wide net and then take in all of them without keeping in mind what rehabilitation means in our communities? How are we going to, for example, impact young offenders and rehabilitate them to become fully functioning members of our society? Are we going to talk about how the indigenous community is impacted by access to justice, bail regulations and laws within our Criminal Code?

This debate, this conversation, this topic of issue is a lot more substantial than the unfortunate fearmongering that we are experiencing with the opposition party. We have to talk about how it is that we are going to have a harm reduction principle embedded within our criminal justice system. More importantly, we have to also understand, in the context of the federal, the provincial and the regional governments, how justice is administered and how that whole bail regime is instilled within our communities and our societies. How do we protect our communities by working together with all levels of our government?

Therefore, putting together an opposition motion and asking for certain things that just do not make sense, when we take in the full context of how it is that our justice system works, is a little disingenuous. I will take some time today to discuss the bail system in Canada and the critical role that it plays in promoting public safety, in maintaining confidence in the administration of justice, and in ensuring that our criminal justice system upholds the rights that are enshrined in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

I will start by saying a few words about Canada's criminal justice system and the importance of that institution. It is a system that is the cornerstone of our democracy. It is a key component in maintaining law and order in society and the overall prosperity of Canada. The federal government continues to make efforts to ensure that Canada is a just and law-abiding society with an accessible, efficient and fair system of justice.

Our criminal laws make and help Canadians feel safe in our communities and have confidence in their justice system, which in turn improves their quality of life as well as their contribution to Canada's prosperity. Unlike the opposition, I do not believe that our institutions are broken. Are they perfect? No, nothing is perfect. Our job is to attempt to improve them, but we should not give in to fearmongering rhetoric. Instead, we should seek constructive solutions the way that our government is doing, by working with all levels of government on this issue, as we heard our minister say earlier today.

The criminal justice system is a shared responsibility among the federal, provincial and territorial governments, and the regional governments are involved. While the federal government is responsible for establishing the criminal law, which includes bail provisions in the Criminal Code, provincial governments are responsible for the administration of justice. That includes conducting bail hearings and enforcing bail conditions, as well as investigating and prosecuting most of the Criminal Code offences within their respective jurisdictions. A successful criminal justice system is dependent on each level of government successfully carrying out its areas of responsibility in co-operation and collaboration with one another.

At the federal government level, we continue to work very closely with provincial and territorial partners to examine ways to further improve the criminal justice system, including the bail regime, and to make it stronger and more efficient. For example, our government is carefully considering the specific concerns raised about repeat and violent offenders and about bail. These have been identified by the premiers of Canada, and our government is actively working with provincial and territorial partners to make improvements to the bail system.

When I was sitting on the justice committee, this was an issue that we did deeply dive into to see how we can better provide protection, support for communities and better access to justice across the country. We learned from witnesses and experts from across the country that we need to take an approach that is contextualized by all of those equity-seeking groups to ensure that whatever system we are trying to improve is fair for everybody. Hence, this goes back to our Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the importance of it within our criminal justice system.

Canada's bail system contributes to enhancing public safety and confidence in the criminal justice system by allowing the pretrial detention of accused persons in cases where there is just cause to do so. I emphasize that the bail system, as set out in Canada's Criminal Code, is intended to ensure that the accused persons charged with a criminal offence will attend court to answer the charge and will not pose a risk to public safety prior to their case being heard or being tried, and that confidence in the criminal justice system is maintained with respect to whether the accused is detained.

If there are concerns that an accused person who is released after being arrested would compromise those objectives, police can detain the accused and bring them before a justice, where they will have the right to a bail court hearing to determine whether they should be released. Pretrial detention of an accused person is justified where it is necessary for the protection or safety of the public, including if there is a substantial likelihood that, if released from custody, the accused would commit a criminal offence.

Where an accused person is released, police or courts are empowered to impose certain conditions that the accused is required to follow until their case has been resolved or the end of their trial. For example, the court can impose any reasonable conditions it considers desirable or necessary to ensure the safety and security of any victim or witnesses to the offence. For certain specific offences, largely offences involving violence, the court is required to impose a condition prohibiting the accused from possessing a firearm, a prohibited or restricted weapon or ammunition, unless it considers that such a condition is not required in the interests of the safety of the victim, the accused or any other person.

In order for us to tackle the issues of a just, viable and fair justice system, we have to take into account our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. We have to take into account how the administration of justice by provinces is taking place. Also, importantly, we need to take into account how we are supporting those on the front lines. Do they have the resources they need? For example, in my region, for Peel police we are trying to ensure that the officers have the ability to access mental health supports. How does that play into it?

I would appreciate it if colleagues in the House, from all aisles, were able to work on that full context of what a bail reform looks like with all levels of government.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Madam Speaker, the member for Mississauga—Erin Mills talked about and highlighted the need for our current bail system to be improved. Changes need to happen.

I have just two simple questions for her. Does she agree this is an urgent problem? How much time is realistic to address this urgent problem and make necessary changes to our bail system in Canada?

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Madam Speaker, the whole point of this is that there is no flip of a switch. No one piece of legislation is going to fix the issue of bail reform in our country. As I was trying to say, this is a multi-faceted problem. We need to engage the provincial, territorial and regional governments, and we need to ensure they have the support they need to administer justice.

Over the past seven years of our government, we have been slowly putting in place legislation that is helping to improve the bail system and the bail regime in Canada, but we would really appreciate the opposition's support on all of these bills as they go forward.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech. I do agree with her that this is a complex issue.

This morning, we are talking about public safety and crime in our streets. One of the big problems we have been talking about for months is the presence of illegal guns in our communities. I agree that this morning's motion will not solve anything. It is yet another populist motion.

Still, the Liberal government is not doing much to crack down on illegal guns coming in. Do not even talk to me about Bill C‑21. It does address some things, but it does not address this problem.

Does my colleague agree that more should be done at the border to stop illegal arms trafficking? Is she applying pressure on her party from the inside to make something happen?

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Madam Speaker, I had a conversation with our chief of police and many other chiefs of police across the country with respect to how we are protecting our borders. I know that our government has made hundreds of millions of dollars of investments to ensure we have more restrictions at our borders with respect to how firearms are coming across. I have talked to chiefs of police who tell me exactly how they are brought in. That feedback has been taken in, and our government has made those investments.

Again, I really think this is a complex issue. It is something we need to work on within a more fulsome context. I would have hoped that the opposition, when it was in power, would have invested more, but according to my readings, it had actually cut funding to our borders by about a third by the time it was done with its governance.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Madam Speaker, I have never seen the level of threat and fear that I see in Timmins and northern communities, which have always been very peaceful, and we know this is directly related to the opioid crisis. I talk to Timmins police, and they say we cannot arrest our way out of this crisis and that they are working in the city to establish a safe site, because this is about keeping people from dying. On top of that, it is about putting supports in place to deal with the homelessness crisis, with opioids and with bail reform, because there are certain offenders who simply cannot be released back into the community again and again to perpetuate violence.

Is my hon. colleague willing to work with us on addressing this issue of bail reform? How are we going to see the government move on the serious issue of the opioid crisis, which is devastating our northern communities?

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Madam Speaker, I think my hon. colleague's question is an important one, and it goes back to what I was saying: We really need to put the harm reduction principle at the centre of bail reform and how we administer justice in our country as it is.

I agree with him. I think tackling the opioid crisis is a big step and is part of the key to resolving the whole framework of providing safer communities. I look forward to working with our hon. colleague to ensure that we are looking at this issue on a fulsome basis.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)]

Madam Speaker, I rise today to speak to the Conservative fundraising motion. Why do I say that? It is not that I do not think this is an extremely serious issue. I do, and I will get to that in a second, but I feel as though the Conservative Party is taking a serious issue and exploiting it for its own gain.

We all know the Conservatives pretty much came into the room knowing this motion would not be supported by a majority of parliamentarians, but they are looking forward to the opportunity to use it in a fundraising email blast, probably later this evening, or something of that sort. It is extremely disingenuous when we treat the House of Commons this way. I do not think it was ever intended to be used this way, but unfortunately we see the Conservatives doing that more and more.

To start, bail reform, as we know and as we have been hearing from leaders throughout the country, is a very important thing we need to tackle. That is why the Minister of Justice met with leaders back in October and committed to working with them. That is why he is meeting with them again in February. That is why he will work with them to make the genuine reforms they are looking for and need in order to increase public safety. In my opinion, he is genuinely working toward an objective of trying to make Canada a better place and improve the quality of life of all Canadians.

I am disheartened by this motion because, for starters, the first resolve paragraph in it specifically speaks to Bill C-75 and directs the government to make changes to Bill C-75. The irony, though, is that Bill C-75 was brought in to fix Harper Conservative legislation on mandatory minimum sentences. At least three pieces of legislative have been struck down by the courts at this point. By bringing in Bill C-75, we mirrored what the courts were saying. The courts were saying that the law infringes upon people's charter rights, that it cannot be imposed on people and that it must be changed.

What would the Charter of Rights look like for the Conservatives? If they continually brought in legislation that was found to be unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, would that not imply they would rather have a different Constitution with a different Charter of Rights in it, a Charter of Rights that did not give what ours currently gives? I cannot understand how we could land on any other assumption than that.

In his address today to the House, the Leader of the Opposition specifically talked about the Conservative approach. He outlined what the Conservative approach would be. However, what he did not talk about was that this approach has been struck down repeatedly by the Supreme Court. He has to come clean with Canadians and say how he would deliver on his approach. Would he use the notwithstanding clause to override the Supreme Court? Would he change the Charter or Rights so that it does not look how it looks now? How else would we effectively get the Conservative approach to become legislation that could be upheld and deemed constitutional by the Supreme Court?

I find it very confusing and very disingenuous when a motion like this comes in. It has to do with a genuine concern being brought forward by leaders throughout our country, but the Conservatives are utilizing it and piggybacking off it to try to exploit something else they are doing. They are trying to exploit fears and anxiety in order to raise money. That is the only conclusion I can come to. That is why I said that I cannot see the purpose of this motion being anything other than a fundraising tool for the Conservative Party.

The Conservatives talked a lot about Bill C-75 making bail easier. That is not what Bill C-75 was about. As a matter of fact, one of the changes in Bill C-75 made it more difficult for people to get bail. It put the onus on the accused to explain why they should be getting bail. That was specifically related to intimate partner violence.

I keep coming back to this point: Why would the Conservatives intentionally exploit these fears if it was for nothing other than political gain? Time after time, we see this narrative coming forward from the Conservatives. We see them standing up in this House and suggesting that this government is directly responsible for some of the things that were put in Bill C-75, specifically as they relate to reforms, which were only needed because the former Conservative government that put in legislation did so in a way that infringed upon people's charter rights, if we are willing to accept the ruling of the court.

As I said, Bill C-75 did not change the criteria of when an accused person can be released by police, a judge or a justice of the peace. It is important to point that out because we have heard repeatedly from the Conservatives today that this is the case. In fact, as I indicated, we made it harder for some individuals to get bail, especially as it relates to intimate partner violence.

Bill C-75 also imposed what is called a reverse onus, as I indicated, for bail imposed on an accused charged with certain firearms offences. This means that the accused will be detained pending trial unless they can prove that bail is justified.

Bill C-75 was adopted following a binding Supreme Court decision, so the Conservatives' first resolve paragraph in the motion asking that we immediately repeal the elements of Bill C-75 is disingenuous at best, because we were replying to what the court was telling us. The Supreme Court of Canada was telling us this had to be done in order to maintain people's charter rights.

I come back to where I started: What is it going to be? Do the Conservatives believe in the charter? Do they believe in those rights? They keep bringing forward legislation that imposes upon them. Do they believe in them, or would they like to see the charter changed? If they do want to see the charter changed, what would they have it look like? I am very curious about what the Charter of Rights would look like per the definition of the Conservatives and per the legislation they have been bringing forward. What do they see for those rights? It is a legitimate question. We have to get to the bottom of that because it is the underpinning and fundamental document upon which the vast majority of challenges are made.

I will continue to listen to the debate today. I am obviously opposed to this motion, and I am glad to see that the majority of colleagues in the House are coming from the same position. It is the responsible thing to do. We need to make sure we continue to have very important conversations about bail reform with leaders throughout our country who are asking for it. We have to have them in an honest way that genuinely impacts Canadians' lives and makes the lives of Canadians safer in the process.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Madam Speaker, a while ago, a wise man told me never to argue with a fool because they will never know I am right, so against my better judgment I stand up here.

The difference between the Liberals in government and the official opposition party, the Conservatives, putting this motion forward is that we are actually listening to the voices of Canadians, those of police chiefs, police associations, big-city mayors and the premiers of all the provinces and territories in this country who are demanding bail reform as a result of the failures of Bill C-75 and Bill C-5. They are seeing it on the streets. What happened with Constable Pierzchala was the top blowing off a volcano. As sad and as difficult as that situation was, it was festering underneath in the judicial system, and now all of these groups are calling for changes.

Why will the government not listen to these groups and implement the changes that are being called for?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, the government is listening to these groups. Back in October, the justice minister met with leaders throughout our country who were demanding these changes. That is when they initially had a discussion about this. He has indicated in the House today, which I am sure the member for Barrie—Innisfil was present to hear, that those discussions are ongoing and that he would be meeting with them again in February.

The member asks why we will not agree to change Bill C-75, but Bill C-75 was just about fixing the mistakes the previous government made that were identified by the Supreme Court. My colleague from the NDP made a really good point earlier when he said that despite the fact that these laws may have been found unconstitutional 10 or 15 years later, lives were still affected in the meantime. Charter rights were legally infringed upon in the meantime, and that is what the Conservatives would like to see happen. They have no problem at all with seeing that occur.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Speaker, I listened to my colleague from Kingston and the Islands, and I have been listening to the debate all morning.

We heard his suggestion that this might be a Conservative fundraising tactic. It is also worth noting that it may behoove his government to act fast while there is still a majority of more moderate people in the House.

At this point, rather than lob criticism at legislation that seems ill-equipped to adapt, maybe we should just reform it. Does my colleague have anything to contribute to a more substantial discussion about that?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, the member said he has been listening to the debate all morning. I am assuming he listened to the speech I just gave. I talked at great length about bail reform and how the Minister of Justice has committed to working with those leaders. He met with them in the fall, and he is meeting with them again in February. He is committed to ensuring that we can bring forward the proper legislation and the reforms necessary.

By the way, this is not a bill. This is just a motion. I am very critical of the intent of this and what is behind it. I do not believe that any of the resolved clauses in here would actually make changes that were constitutional, or that would benefit anybody.

I think it is necessary for the conversations to happen at the local levels, the provincial and territorial levels, so the proper reforms can come in.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Madam Speaker, one of the things the House has consensus on is wanting to stop illegal guns coming into Canada, especially from the United States, whether at my border point in Windsor, or other places in Ontario and across the entire country. In the past we saw the Harper administration cut out the integrated teams we had with the United States that were doing pre-investigations, joint task force analysis, and so forth.

The reason I am referencing that is, although it will always be partisan, the current Liberal administration has not actually graduated enough CBSA officers during the pandemic.

We want to have a solution. We are short about 800 officers from the pandemic alone. What is the government going to do to increase our officers?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, I had a conversation with the minister just this morning specifically about CBSA officers, and my belief is that we need to ramp them up.

However, I will go back to the member's original comment. Not only did Stephen Harper's government not move forward with laws, it actually cut the CBSA's budget significantly, reducing the number of officers, yet now they seem to be the ones standing here complaining about guns coming across the border. They were literally taking resources away from the CBSA at the time.

I believe that it is important to continue to see the graduation of those officers come through. As the member indicated, it has slowed down since COVID.