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Crucial Fact

  • His favourite word is quebec.

Liberal MP for Lac-Saint-Louis (Québec)

Won his last election, in 2021, with 56% of the vote.

Statements in the House

Criminal Code February 15th, 2024

Madam Speaker, the member and I sat on the third edition of the special joint committee together. I know the member is a lawyer, and my question is really a legal one. I agree with the recommendation of the committee for an indefinite delay, but does he expect that this case will come up at the Supreme Court eventually? What does he think the reasoning of the court might be, given that the definition of irremediability in law is very different from irremediability in clinical medical practice, which requires a bit more certainty? There is a tension between the two, so I would be interested in his perspective on that.

Government Business No. 34—Proceedings on Bill C-62 February 13th, 2024

Madam Speaker, in fact, I do not know how to answer that question. We have seen that there is a subjective element. There are some who believe they would make the right call. I guess that confidence is at the root of the perspective they bring to the issue.

I am not a medical doctor, much less a psychiatrist, so again, I do not have a definitive answer for the member.

Government Business No. 34—Proceedings on Bill C-62 February 13th, 2024

Madam Speaker, I do not, because I am not in the Senate. Now that the Senate is on the other side of the street, it is a little harder to confer with the senators.

I understand their position. They are generally for this extension. I would like to believe that they are also responsible, and they would not want to see a void open up after March 2024. Therefore, I expect and hope that they will do the responsible thing.

Government Business No. 34—Proceedings on Bill C-62 February 13th, 2024

Madam Speaker, I would tell them I would always vote for those kinds of supports, and I am very pleased we have passed Bill C-22 on creating a framework for an eventual disability benefit. It is excellent public policy and I am, quite frankly, hoping the next budget includes something more concrete on that around a figure of the kind of financial support people with disabilities can expect.

Yes, there are many social problems, and this is one of the reasons I do not think we are really ready. We do not know how to extract those influences such as the inability to find housing, loneliness, drug addictions, etc. We do not have the ability to extract those motivators from what we could call, I suppose, for lack of better words, a more considered request for MAID. It is a big problem. As a society, we have many problems to deal with, and that is why I am here. I am trying to do my best, as the member is, to solve those problems.

Government Business No. 34—Proceedings on Bill C-62 February 13th, 2024

Mr. Speaker, first, I want to congratulate my colleague on the thoughtfulness of his remarks. His speeches, his interventions, offer fresh perspectives. I learned a lot just from listening to him at meetings of the Special Joint Committee on Medical Assistance in Dying or even in the House.

It is complex. As I was saying earlier, I am torn. The problem is that this becomes very subjective at some point. We are giving a lot of power to a doctor or a nurse practitioner who may not have the necessary background in psychiatric illnesses.

As I said in my speech, a person might present with one psychiatric illness, but roughly 80% have more than one. It is complicated enough to deal with psychiatric illness; when we add two or three more, it becomes even more complicated.

I very much appreciate the interventions of my colleague. Like everyone else, we are doing everything we can on this file.

Government Business No. 34—Proceedings on Bill C-62 February 13th, 2024

Mr. Speaker, I do not have a crystal ball. I do not have a monopoly on the truth. As I said in my speech, I am not blessed by absolutism. I am torn by this issue as much as I think anyone in this House is. Even if we hide behind the certainties we put up as political parties, we still question ourselves and we are still torn by this issue.

I do not know if we will ever be ready. What I was trying to do in my speech was to point out some of the things we have not done to be ready. Maybe we will never be ready. I am not a psychiatrist. I do understand psychiatric suffering can be as severe as physical suffering, and I do feel for the people, especially John Scully, who I have heard from in testimony in a small working group. I feel for him and what he is living through. To be honest, I do not have the answer.

Government Business No. 34—Proceedings on Bill C-62 February 13th, 2024

Mr. Speaker, I joined the latest edition of the Special Joint Committee on Medical Assistance in Dying, which was mandated to deal specifically with the question of the health system's readiness for an extension of MAID to cases of severe mental illness, out of a sense of duty as this is a deeply serious matter for Canadian society, one on which I received correspondence from a great many concerned constituents.

At first, I humbly questioned my qualifications to sit on the committee. I am not a psychiatrist. I am not a medical doctor. I do not have expertise or experience in this area. However, in a democracy, not all is left to the experts. The people, through their elected representatives, set legal parameters in areas of public interest by way of legislation and regulations. In fact, that is what has been happening since 2016 on the issue of MAID.

That said, it is important to carefully listen to and consult the experts out of respect for the authority of knowledge and experience. This is the opposite, I might add, of the new populism.

I agree with the committee's recommendation that we should indefinitely postpone MAID where the sole underlying condition is mental illness, also known as MD-SUMC. The central issue in MD-SUMC is irremediability; that is the question of whether there is the possibility that a person with severe mental illness can be cured of their terrible suffering, a suffering not different from physical suffering.

Under the law, for a person to be deemed eligible for MAID, the illness must be irremediable; grievous and irremediable. The problem when we move from somatic, that is physical, illness to psychiatric illness is that irremediability becomes more difficult to establish. In the case of psychiatric illness, an accurate prognosis is infinitely more difficult to produce.

Because of the difficulty, in cases of mental illness, of offering a reasonably certain prognosis, the determination of irremediability will necessarily have to be based on a retrospective view; that is on an assessment of the extent of a patient's past treatments and whether the patient exhausted all treatment possibilities in a quest to be relieved of their suffering. The problem is that the MAID assessors will most likely not have been involved in past treatments, which makes it difficult to ascertain the quality of those treatments. When it comes to establishing irremediability in cases of mental illness, evidence has shown accuracy is poor. It is less than 50%, a coin toss.

To quote Dr. Sonu Gaind, one of the experts who appeared before the committee, “Worldwide evidence shows we cannot predict irremediability in cases of mental illness, meaning that the primary safeguard underpinning MAID is already being bypassed, with evidence showing such predictions are wrong over half the time.”

It should be pointed out that under our MAID law, clinical certainty about irremediability is not actually required. Here it is important to highlight the distinction between legal irremediability and irremediability in clinical medicine.

In the MAID law, “grievous and irremediable” has a different meaning than in medicine. It is defined as incurability, “be in an advanced state of irreversible decline” and “enduring...physical or psychological suffering” that is intolerable to the person and cannot be relieved “under conditions the person considers acceptable.”

In law, therefore, it is not necessary to establish irremediability with a degree of clinical certainty. Rather, both patient and assessor must come to the shared understanding based, among other things, on the assessor's analysis of the history of past treatments. There is an element of subjectivity on the part of both patient and assessor. Naturally, the assessor will bring their own philosophical biases, values and ethics to this subjective equation.

As Dr. Gaind suggested to committee members, “Try those mental gymnastics on your constituents. Convince them it was okay that their loved ones with mental illness got MAID, not because of a clinical assessment based in medicine or science, but because of the ethics of the particular assessor.”

An important issue in determining eligibility for MD-SUMC is being able to separate suicidal ideation from a considered request for MAID. It bears keeping in mind that suicide attempts are not always rash and impulsive, the product of a panicked state. This, in some ways, is a stereotype. Psychiatrists will say that some suicides are not frenetic but carefully planned in advance.

Dr. Tarek Rajji, chair of the medical advisory committee at the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, told the committee, “There is no clear way to separate suicidal ideation or a suicide plan from requests for MAID.”

To again quote, Dr. Gaind:

We cannot distinguish suicidality caused by mental illness from motivations leading to psychiatric MAID requests, with overlapping characteristics suggesting there may be no distinction to make.

In the Netherlands, an assessment by an independent physician is required for MAID, and in the case of psychiatric suffering, a third assessment by an independent psychiatrist, preferably one with specific expertise regarding the patient's disorder.

The problem with Canada's law, as it stands, is that there is no requirement for one of the assessors of MAID eligibility to be a psychiatrist, yet psychiatric issues are exceedingly complex. Often a patient has more than one illness. It is said that 71% to 79% of psychiatric patients who died through MAID in the Netherlands had more than one psychiatric disorder.

We humans are not self-directed, rational atoms exercising unencumbered clear-eyed autonomy. We are not as free as we think. We are born into families and communities, and influenced by the opportunities they offer, and alternatively, by the constraints they impose on us.

I sometimes wonder if we are not in the process of turning personal autonomy into ideology. I say “wonder” because as a liberal, I have not been bestowed the gift of absolutism that has blessed ideologues.

Requests for MAID can be influenced by, even driven by, extraneous factors like poverty and isolation, that is by psychosocial factors. According to Dr. Gaind, “those with mental illness...have higher rates of psychosocial suffering.”

This all means that MAID assessors will be wrong over half the time when predicting irremediability, will wrongly believe they are filtering out suicidality and still, instead, provide death to marginalized suicidal Canadians who could have improved.

Archibald Kaiser, Professor at the Schulich School of Law and Department of Psychiatry, Faculty of Medicine at Dalhousie University added that “The Supreme Court concluded in 1991 that people with mental illness have historically been the subjects of abuse, neglect and discrimination.”

Dr. Gaind further underscored that “Suffering is cumulative, and life suffering unfortunately fuels much of the suffering of those with mental illness, even more so for marginalized populations.”

There is, in fact, the possibility that gender-based marginalization can influence requests for MD-SUMC. We know that in countries that allow MAID for severe mental illness, the ratio of women to men who seek MD-SUMC is two to one.

For their part, indigenous representatives have expressed serious reservations about expanding MAID to include mental illness. According to Professor Kaiser:

In February 2021...many distinguished indigenous signatories wrote to Parliament that the consultation ... has not been adequate and “has not taken into account the existing health disparities...we face compared to non-Indigenous people.” They said, “our population is vulnerable to discrimination and coercion...and should be protected against unsolicited counsel.”

We know there is systemic racism in the health care system. Ask the family of Joyce Echaquan. How would systemic racism influence the rate of acceptance of MAID requests of indigenous and other racialized peoples? That is a pertinent question.

As Dr. Lisa Richardson, Strategic Lead, Centre for Wise Practices in Indigenous Health, Women's College Hospital, told a Senate committee on February 3, 2021:

In an environment where both systemic and interpersonal racism exists, I don’t trust that Indigenous people will be safe. I don’t trust that anti-Indigenous prejudice and bias will not affect the decision making and counselling about MAID for Indigenous people, no matter how much education is given.

Indigenous communities, many of which have felt the scourge of high suicide rates, especially among youth, may have concerns about possible contagion effects of MD-SUMC on suicidality.

Then, there is the basic question of the ability of the health care system in Canada, already stretched to the limit, to handle an expansion of MAID.

According to Dr. Eleanor Gittens of the Canadian Psychological Association, as a country we have not yet established parity between available physical and mental care. To quote her, “Care and treatment of mental illness are not covered by medicare, nor is it readily accessible.”

We do not really know how many people would request MD-SUMC, and thus whether we have enough qualified assessors. By some estimates, we would have well over 2,000 patients a year getting MD-SUMC with countless more requesting eligibility assessments. I know there is dispute around that number.

Just because there is a published Health Canada standard for MD-SUMC and a training module does not mean the system is ready. A building built on a soft foundation is not ready for occupancy, no matter the level of completion of its structure. There are today no safeguards preventing poverty, housing insecurity, loneliness, etc., that is psychosocial factors, from significantly fuelling MAID requests of those suffering from mental illness.

I will quote Dr. Rajji: “The standards document itself, the one developed by the expert panel, states that these are not clinical guidelines, and this is what is missing to ensure quality.” According, again, to Dr. Gaind, “it is a legal fiction that determinations of the eligibility of MAID are based on objective clinical judgment. In fact, I regularly witness practitioners' values influencing the interpretation of the current MAID eligibility criteria and safeguards.”

As per an article in the review Impact Ethics, “The few jurisdictions allowing MAiD for [sole] mental illness have safeguards Canada lacks, notably (unlike Canada) requirement of due care and no reasonable alternative, or treatment futility, prior to MAiD eligibility.”

In Canada, a patient would be able to qualify for MD-SUMC even if they refuse treatment. Often a psychiatric patient will refuse additional treatment owing to treatment fatigue. While treatment fatigue has been studied in the context of HIV and type 1 diabetes, with the goal of developing strategies to help overcome it, treatment fatigue has not yet received attention in psychiatry. A better understanding of treatment fatigue could lead to alternatives to MAID, such as palliative or recovery-oriented treatments.

I respect the Senate. I value the Senate. Senators bring more than just sober second thought; they bring expertise in fields crucial to good public policy making, but senators are not elected. They are not the voice of the people. It was never the government's intention to extend MAID to those suffering from mental illness.

The government was running out of runway to meet the court-imposed deadline in the Truchon decision for amending the law to remove the requirement that death be foreseeable to qualify for MAID. It could not afford a back-and-forth game of procedural ping-pong with the Senate over its last-minute amendment to remove the mental illness exclusion from Bill C-7. It had to accept the Senate's amendment to get the bill across the finish line.

In my view, we are not ready for MD-SUMC. We cannot ascertain irremediability with any acceptable degree of certainty and objectivity. We cannot sufficiently distinguish an unfettered request for MAID on the grounds of mental illness from suicidal ideation. We are not able to separate out psychosocial factors that might drive MD-SUMC. We have not properly consulted racialized communities to take account of their views, concerns and fears, notably those of indigenous communities, and we have not built proper safeguards into the law.

We do not require the involvement of a psychiatrist in assessment nor require that a person have reasonably exhausted available treatments before making a request for MD-SUMC. The few other jurisdictions that allow MD-SUMC have this requirement.

We have not studied and understood treatment fatigue such that we can develop strategies that can possibly lead a patient to other non-lethal treatment options, and finally, we have allowed an unelected body, the Senate, to drive this agenda.

National Strategy on Flood and Drought Forecasting Act February 12th, 2024

I would like a recorded vote please, Mr. Speaker.

National Strategy on Flood and Drought Forecasting Act February 12th, 2024

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to be able to close this debate on my bill at second reading. First of all, I would like to say how impressed I was by the quality of the speeches from both sides, by members from all parties present in the House this morning.

I would also like to circle back to the comments made by my colleague, the member for Repentigny at the end of the first hour of debate, as well as the final comments made by the member for Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou. What we are aiming for here is not a federal strategy at all. In fact, responsibility for forecasting and adapting to disasters, such as floods and droughts, lies with the provinces.

We are not aiming for a federal strategy, but a national strategy, meaning that we want to use this structural bill to encourage better collaboration between the provinces, the federal government, indigenous communities and, as my colleague from Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa also mentioned, the people on the ground, the farmers. This is already happening. Specialists meet informally. However, according to Canada's foremost expert on flood and drought forecasting, John Pomeroy, something more formal is needed.

It is important to recognize that technology has evolved. I can confirm that Quebec is one of the most advanced provinces in flood and drought forecasting. Quebeckers are very technologically advanced, but that does not mean we should not encourage collaboration because, in this day and age, with advances in technology and forecasting methods, forecasters are no longer limited to a small territory. Models can now be developed that cover huge, broad territories, even entire continents. That is what is being done in Europe right now. This will require collaboration. The federal government is not interfering. That is not at all what is happening here.

I will give an example of the possibilities that we have with the proper degree of co-operation and the possibilities that we have of doing accurate flood forecasting. I would like to refer to something by Dr. Pomeroy. I am paraphrasing him and, in some cases, I am quoting him directly.

I notice the member for Yukon is here. In the summer of 2021, Yukon experienced historical flooding along the Yukon River in Whitehorse, a pilot case flood forecast for the territorial government. It is a flood forecast coordinated by Global Water Futures, which is out of the University of Saskatchewan. It was able to correctly predict the flood and show its cause, which was unprecedented glacier and snow melt in the high mountain headwaters of the Yukon River in British Columbia.

The problem is that Global Water Future's funding will be sunset, so we will not have the funding necessary for this kind of endeavour, but we need more of these kinds of endeavours. As Dr. Pomeroy has said, this exercise could not have been done by any level of government alone. There had to be co-operation between the federal government, the Yukon government and a university, where the expertise really resides in this area. It is not a question of public servants dictating anything to anybody. The public servants will not be doing this work; it is the experts in the universities and provinces.

I appreciate the quality of the speeches I heard this morning and I appreciate what seems to be all-party support for this bill.

Citizens' Assembly on Electoral Reform February 5th, 2024

Mr. Speaker, there is an elephant in the room, and there is a mouse, but we are talking about the same thing. The elephant is some people's desire to see a reform of Canada's electoral system that would bring it closer to what is known as proportional representation. What is happening is that the elephant is trying to hide by disguising itself as a mouse in the hopes of going unnoticed.

Indeed, this motion is an attempt to leave the door open on a file that did not come to fruition about six years ago because of differences of opinion among the parties in the House concerning the system that should replace the current first-past-the-post system, as well as a lack of public interest in such a reform. I will explain.

In 2016, the Prime Minister asked me to chair the Special Committee on Electoral Reform, whose mandate was to do an in-depth study of the issue. That is one of the reasons I am so interested in today's debate. The committee held a series of hearings in Ottawa before touring the country to meet with Canadians where they live.

We crossed the country, stopping in every province and territory. In all, we visited 18 cities in three weeks, moving on to a new city each morning to hold hearings in the afternoon and evening, and starting again the next morning. Unfortunately, the hearings were not standing room only. Sometimes we heard enthusiastic and even passionate testimony in favour of reform. Sometimes people read prepared and almost identical texts, a sure sign of a well-coordinated campaign behind the scenes. In Victoria, the hall was full. In Quebec City, it was not.

I was able to reconnect with some of my former NDP colleagues, who had clearly come to present briefs in favour of proportional representation in support of their party's official position.

The committee did a remarkable job. I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate all of its members, including the members for Saanich—Gulf Islands, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston and Joliette, as well as the member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley, who is currently a minister in the B.C. government. They worked with diligence and zeal.

We produced an exceptional report, which provides a list of electoral systems from which a democracy can choose based on its political culture. The report is even used today as a political science textbook.

Two weeks ago, I was hosted at Concordia University by Professor Donal Gill, an outspoken supporter of electoral reform. He told me that he used the committee's report in class.

Unfortunately, the committee could not agree on a replacement for the current first-past-the-post system. Conservatives preferred the status quo. The NDP and Greens wanted PR. Liberals have always favoured the preferential ballot.

One practical issue that arose is that any major reform of the voting system would necessarily require a national referendum. I say in jest that, if one really loves this country, one does not wish a national referendum on it. If one has lived through two Quebec referenda, one has developed a healthy aversion to plebiscites on existential matters. In a country as vast as Canada, with a great diversity of deeply held regional perspectives, a referendum on a national scale on such a fundamental question can only lead to divisive results that further challenge national unity. No thanks.

Also, a national referendum would require a singular focus by the government when so many urgent issues of importance to Canadians abound and demand attention. One must remember that, at the time the committee released its report, a major development was suddenly monopolizing the government's energies: the election of Donald Trump, who was bent on tearing up NAFTA. There are priorities.

The problem with our politics, in my humble view, is not the electoral system. Therefore, engineering it will not lead to the democratic renaissance we hope for.

Further, proportional representation is not a panacea for all that ails our politics. The real problem is the sad state of political discourse. We are losing the capacity to dialogue and reason with one another, because we cannot agree that a fact is a fact and because we judge the merits of people's views on whether they resemble us ideologically. It should not matter whether I like someone when it comes to recognizing the value of their experience or the merits of their argument.

That it does is the tragedy of our present-day politics, and I am not sure the splintering of voices in Parliament that could accompany proportional representation is the solution we are looking for. Big-tent politics that has flourished under our present system, a system that requires compromise, has its advantages.

Last, I do not believe that proportional representation is the solution to low voter turnout, especially among young people. Millennials can still be excited by a candidate and get out to vote in large numbers, regardless of the electoral system. We saw that in 2015. Rather, I suspect that low voter turnout is the product of a more and more individualistic and atomized culture. These days, personal agency seems a stronger value than collective action. Added to this are the facts that many problems seem too complex and intractable, and that big corporations and technologies, especially digital ones, seem more powerful and faster moving than governments.

When it comes to motivating young people to vote, I find that the traditional appeal to duty is no longer as effective as it was with older generations, especially those who have seen and lived through the sacrifice of war. When I speak to young people about voting, I speak of a different kind of duty, a duty to self. The ethos of personal authenticity that prevails today has in some ways become the highest value, whether we are talking about musical artists expressing themselves through their own compositions, or people broadcasting their views on every little thing on social media. What I say, especially to younger people, is that if they really live by the credo of personal authenticity and view it as the highest form of personal integrity, then to be true to themselves, they must express their views at the ballot box, whether it changes the electoral result or not.

I understand and respect the views of the member who has sponsored the motion in good faith and out of real concern for our democracy. However, I do not believe we need to revisit electoral reform at this time.

I would like to take the opportunity to thank and congratulate the principal analysts from the Library of Parliament who were assigned to the committee and who produced such an incredible report, which, as I said before in my speech, is still being used today as a textbook in political science classes. I am speaking of Dara Lithwick and Erin Virgint, who were really exceptional.

I would also like to commend Christine Lafrance, clerk of the committee, for her unsurpassed professionalism. She is an outstandingly effective and experienced clerk. With Ms. Lafrance at the helm, it was smooth sailing all the way.