Larry Bagnell

[Yukon Sourdough Rendezvous Festival, February 28th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, at this very moment the Yukon Sourdough Rendezvous celebrations are occurring in Yukon's capital city. Yukon Sourdough Rendezvous is one of the top winter festivals in the nation.

We will be celebrating Yukon's lively and colourful past, so whether people are into dog sledding, chainsaw chucking, sourdough sam's, flour packing, watching can-can dancers, taking in the hairy leg contest or simply enjoying a get together with friends and family, everyone is guaranteed a great time during the festival.

The Yukon Sourdough Rendezvous is run entirely by volunteers and supported by corporate and government sponsors. It takes a lot of hard work and an unbelievable amount of energy to make this annual event such a success.

I would like to offer my heartfelt congratulations to all the people who work so tirelessly to achieve the great and successful festivals. I know the logistics may be challenging but I urge all members in the House today to cancel their weekend plans, hop on a plane, head up to the Klondike for one of the greatest winter festivals around.

[Yukon Environmental and Socio-economic Assessment Act, February 28th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, in 1995 the Yukon first nations, the federal government and the Yukon government signed a great treaty.

Many people in Canada probably do not know that one of the interesting results is it created the potential for 16 different governments in the Yukon at the federal, territorial and first nations level.

The challenge was when it came to development assessment on a project, a first nations business, or a corporation, or a mining company that had interests across several boundaries of these many orders of government may have had to go through many different assessment processes, laws and regimes. There needed to be a one window process put in place.

The last time I debated the bill I spoke about how the law was created over a number of years, about how it would accomplish a one window approach and how some of the issues that came up during those many years of debate were dealt with in the proposal.

With all these orders of government managing various lands and resources, the Yukon could have found itself with 16 or more different ways for assessing projects throughout the territory. However, Bill C-2 will establish a single uniform process for assessing land projects in the Yukon.

Therefore, potential proponents will have to follow only one set of regulations for assessing the environmental and socio-economic effects of their projects in the Yukon. In order to promote responsible development activities, the assessment process must be uniform and predictable. The bill includes both these characteristics.

If responsible development in the Yukon is to include proper protection of the environment, certainty and timeliness are equally essential to the assessment process and are reflected in Bill C-2.

I committed at this stage to outline some of the ideas, concerns and suggestions that arose during the debate and the committee process on Bill C-2.

The Yukon organizations, Klondike Placer Miners' Association and the Chamber of Mines, have a number of suggestions. They want to ensure there is procedural fairness regarding a proponent's ability to respond and to appeal. They want to ensure that the proponent receives all the information pertaining to the application and is able to respond during the assessment phase prior to a recommendation being made.

They want to ensure that there is public input on the development of regulations and on the development of the Yukon environmental and socio-economic assessment board rules.

In this legislation there are very many important things, some of which were fought for by these groups.

The regulations define what a project would be, for instance. There are some other coordination issues in the regulations. This is a very significant factor in how this is going to work and what is defined as a project. It is very important that the public have input in this area. It is the same with the rules. Rules that will be developed by the board have some very instrumental elements that some of the Yukon groups asked for, for instance, time lines. It is very important that there be good public input into these major aspects of the bill.

The mining industry wants the bill to establish methods whereby the public will be consulted. Any legislation benefits from public input.

The assessments must have clear time lines in order to ensure a healthy economy. These processes should occur within the time lines. It provides certainty to those doing the development. For placer miners, even more so these days, well defined limits that are followed at every stage are a must for the stability of the industry.

A lot of these points are suggestions from the mining association. They also reflect what the chambers of commerce are interested in.

They would like to appeal to an elected official if there is a dispute with the board. They also suggested a scheduled review of the act because it is so important to ongoing protection of the environment and development in the Yukon.

Once the act is in place, they do not want existing projects to be reviewed unless the proponent requests a review. To ensure certainty, many of the miners told the committee that projects must only be reviewed if a proponent is requesting a change to that project. The ability to arbitrarily trigger a review is part of the legislation which has raised concerns in part of the mining community.

Assessments must also consider benefits to society. The purpose of the act should ensure that development as a public good is considered during socio-economic assessment. The economic factor is where there needs to be recognition of the good and the prosperity that the development brings so that Yukon families can support themselves and, through their taxes, fund the things that are important to governments.

They want to ensure that rules pertaining to designated offices will be reviewed. Designated offices should not be allowed to make their own rules to ensure that the rules are not different in different districts and a proponent is not treated differently in different districts. There are going to be six offices throughout the Yukon.

There was some suggestion that the scope of the act was so limited it could not catch some major projects that might have a negative socio-economic impact on communities and first nations such as the designation of parks or protected areas.

Again, in the assessment of cumulative impacts, they want to make sure that the board is empowered not only to consider the adverse impacts but the positive impacts of those developments. They also are wary of the possibility that certain mineral development could be imperiled where there are conflicts with the land use plans and this regime.

The Yukon Chamber of Commerce had similar concerns and suggestions.

Many of the intervenors were quite positive toward a five year review of the act and input into the regulations and the rules, all of which are so instrumental. In a pioneering piece of legislation that will have so much impact on the community and on the territory, it is important to incorporate these items.

Three first nations provided input, the Kwanlin Dun First Nation, the Kaska First Nation and the White River First Nation. They want to ensure that there is a five year review in place. They also want to ensure that the first nations are involved in the development of the regulations, which is a view consistent with that of other intervenors.

The Conservation Society also provided input throughout the process over the years and also represented the Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society. One of the major points, over and above the ones that I mentioned was that there should be enforcement legislation so that the results of this legislation would not be just recommendations, as they are now, but decisions. This would be regulatory legislation as opposed to advisory legislation. The five year review and involvement in the regulations were also mentioned.

The bill is complex because there is another land claim in the northern part of the Yukon which involves the Yukon North Slope. The Wildlife Management Advisory Council of the Inuvialuit expressed an interest that there not be duplication of the screening that comes under its processes related to its screening committee under that land claim, which would then overlap the assessment process in the Yukon system. There could possibly be two different results from the different assessment processes.

The Association of Yukon Communities was also an intervenor. It represents 100% of the municipalities in the Yukon and over 80% of the people in the Yukon.

It noted in its submission that it had been involved with the public consultation process from the beginning, since 1996. It met regularly and had input with groups, including the Council of Yukon First Nations, Yukon Chamber of Mines, the Klondike Placer Miners' Association, the Yukon Chamber of Commerce, the Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society, the Yukon Conservation Society.

The municipalities were concerned that because they were not recognized as an order of government in the bill, they may not have a right to appeal on every issue that occurred within municipal boundaries. They also suggested that it be mandatory on panels occurring within the municipal boundaries to have representation on the panel recommended by the municipalities.

In their reading, they thought it was unclear where CEAA and YESAA would cover a project and that there might be a dual assessment. The bill basically removes CEAA from the Yukon. Yukon will be one of only three parts of Canada that have their own assessment process. It will be designed by the local governments and people in the Yukon, for the Yukon.

It is exciting when people can work with the federal, first nations and territorial governments. It is a process that is unique to the country and to Yukon. They then do not have to follow the national legislation that may not be as sensitive to local concerns. The municipalities also thought that as other orders of government or decision bodies were in line within their jurisdiction, they should have the same provision in certain instances.

These were some of the ideas and suggestions that were raised during the debate. We have been processing this proposition created by three governments in Yukon for Yukoners. Whatever emerges from this Parliament will be unique to Yukon and to Canada. Perhaps it will contain elements of a model for the country for refinement and emulation.

Emerge it must. Our economy is at a low ebb and we need a regime to protect the environment while providing the certainty to entrepreneurs, corporations, first nations business persons and businesses so that we can all get on with building an economy so that Yukon families can survive and prosper in the beautiful country that has been given to us.

[Fisheries, February 26th, 2003]

Mr. Chairman, I hope I have the last word on this issue. I have no idea how decisions are made inside the Department of Fisheries or by the minister. There is some semblance, though, of things I have heard subsequent to the time that this issue started. This is a different process. The placer authorizations is under section 35, and that may be a reason for changing it. I would say the exact opposite. This is a unique industry, as I have said. It is cleaner than many of the other industries that have special individual authorization or go under regulations, so why not have a system that actually allows the mining to exist and allows for several mines to exist on the same stream, the same watershed, and to be processed effectively?

In conclusion, if I could just have one more minute, I would like to thank all the placer miners, especially in Yukon, and all other Yukoners who have written to me in the most passionate terms about what is in their souls and about their livelihood and what they have invested their lives in. Sometimes the letters are from families over generations. I think that this Parliament represents justice, fairness and democracy, and that will ultimately prevail.

[Fisheries, February 26th, 2003]

Mr. Chairman, the point is that they do settle it in such a way that the mining can continue and the fish can continue to exist and to thrive as they do presently.

Everyone likes to fish in Yukon. The Yukon is known for its beauty. I have letters from people who want to preserve that beauty. We all want to preserve that and continue to do so. There are different ways to do this, but it has to be done in such a way that there can be certainty, because placer mining has huge investments in equipment. It is a very fine, narrow economic base, and there are only a couple of months in the summer when this can be done. There are all the mortgage payments in this industry so there has to be certainty in decision making and a fair process.

Right now it is done by a water board. A number of people have input into that process, and there can be appeals. Conservationists, placer miners and other people can appear and provide their opinions on these decisions. Decisions have to be made in a fair and consistent manner and with common sense.

There was a consultation across the entire Yukon over the last couple of years on how this might be done. I went to some of these meetings across Yukon. They passionately reflected, by and large, what I have just said. Every Yukoner had a chance to write in and have input. Recommendations came out of that process. The recommendations that have been brought forward by the people of Yukon for the people of Yukon would certainly be one way of solving this problem. The Minister of Fisheries and Oceans is now in negotiations with the Klondike Placer Miners' Association and its president, Tara Christie, and I hope they come to a resolution of the situation.

[Fisheries, February 26th, 2003]

Mr. Chairman, as an avid fisherman and passionate admirer of the Yukon, I want to talk tonight about a great industry that has existed in the Yukon for over a century while at the same time our natural, healthy fish stocks have continued. I implore everyone here tonight to do everything in their power to ensure this part of Yukon life, of our Yukon heritage, survives.

In the 1890s the world was in a great recession. In August 1896 Skookum Jim, George Carmack and Tagish Charlie discovered flecks of gold in Rabbit Creek, subsequently named Bonanza Creek, and started the world's greatest gold rush.

Dawson and Yukon did their part for Canada. They pulled us out of that great recession and now it is our turn to do our part for them. Miners, 30,000 of them, rushed from all over the world. Dawson became the largest city west of Winnipeg and north of Seattle, and the salmon survived.

When the thousands left for Nome, the great dredges came and mechanically washed thousands of tonnes of earth, and the fish survived.

Mr. Chairman, let me tell you why the fish survived and why this is such a clean industry compared to others that can dump chemicals, fertilizers and carcinogens into our water. Placer gold is just nuggets and fine gold-like sand. The process of cleaning it out is to wash it. Because gold is heavier than the other elements, it is taken out by gravity. That is all there is to it. There are no chemicals, no poisons and no carcinogens as there are in other industries, just water. So of course the fish thrive.

For all the history of European settlement in the Yukon, the famous creeks primarily around Dawson, Mayo and Haines Junction, have nurtured many of the great Yukon families. There are the great Yukon creeks of Eldorado, Bonanza, Dominion, Hunker, Sulphur, Indian River, Klondike, Black Hills, Thistle, Scroggie, Vancouver, Bear, All Gold, Too Much Gold, Gold Run, Forty Mile, Sixty Mile, Mazy May, Henderson, Haggart Creek, Burwash, Livingston, Duncan, Thunder Gulch, Seattle and 4th of July. And the fish thrive.

The gold rush brought the great Canadian poet Robert Service who wrote of the people and beauty of the Yukon and helped Canada become famous and brings thousands of tourists even today and helps build Canada's economy.

Placer gold mining is the heart and soul of the Klondike. Gold runs not only in the beds of the creeks but in the spirit of the people. Our placer mining must survive if we are to survive economically and with the soul of our heritage. And the fish thrive.

What of placer mining today? Placer gold mining occurs in less than .3% of Yukon's land mass. Yukon has one of the highest rates of unemployment in Canada right now. We all know how hard it is to create any type of employment in small remote communities anywhere in rural Canada. Yet after a century, placer mining continues to feed families of the Yukon.

The income and other taxes from $50 million yearly in the economy contribute to our ability to fund our schools, our health care system and our poor. And the fish thrive.

It is critically essential for our people that the placer mining industry survive. The Tr'ondek Hwech'in first nation is at Dawson City where most of the mines are. Its chief tells me that placer mining is important to the success of their great treaty with Canada in which they have potential placer gold, and the businesses they have just purchased that depend on the placer gold industry to survive.

Peter Nagano of the Tr'ondek Hwech'in first nation, after a century of washing hundreds of tonnes of gravel and earth, says that the highest densities of wildlife are all in placer mining areas. For the Arctic grayling there never was a decline, past or present, in the history of the Dawson first nation.

Parliament just passed a bill on endangered species wherein we enshrined traditional knowledge. We said it was important to put in a law because it is important in making decisions.

We should continue to listen to that traditional knowledge in this respect. The chief of the Tr'ondek Hwech'in, Darren Taylor, writes:

The Tr'ondek Hwech'in are descended of the Han Indians who are people of the river.

Our nation has relied on salmon stocks for thousands of years for our basic sustenance and continues to do so.

We could never knowingly support an industry that significantly damages those stocks.

He goes on to say:

Many of our citizens are placer miners or work in the placer mining industry. Our economic development corporation, Chief Isaac Inc., operates businesses that service and depend on the placer mining industry.

Many of our settlement lands were selected for placer mining potential.

The other largest placer major area in the Yukon is near Mayo in the traditional territory of the Nacho Nyak Dun. One of the most passionate defenders of placer mining I have heard, as I travelled around Yukon listening to people, was the former chief of the Nacho Nyak Dun, Robert Hager. The present chief, Steven Buyck concurs and states in a letter:

The Nacho Nyak Dun traditional territory is rich in mining history, and placer mines in particular have contributed significantly to the economic stability of Mayo.

The First Nation intends to build this capacity to generate the income necessary to be a strong, viable government serving the long term needs of our people.

How clean this gravel must now be. It has been processed over and over and some of it washed many times. That is why it is such a clean industry, when just earth and gravel are just washed.

There is not a single person in Canada who would suggest that there are not many other industries that have the authority through section 35 of the Fisheries Act or other regulations that add much more deleterious substances, such as oil, carcinogens and chemicals to the water.

Many modern placer miners have spent thousands of dollars to build settling ponds to produce the very clean, low sediment levels that they must now follow to meet the very strict water quality objectives before putting this clean water back into the stream, and of course, the fish thrive.

How many more hundreds of hours do I need to strive to make this point? How many more times can I say that this industry, at the heart of our heritage and economy, must survive and cannot be unnecessarily regulated out of existence? How many times must our senator, Ione Christensen, the KPMA president, Tara Christie, the mayors of Yukon and hundreds of placer miners and all the businesses they support and the thousands of Yukoners protest until we can democratically choose the way we want to live.

And the fish thrive.

If excessive regulations cause this industry, our industry, to go extinct, the results will be devastating.

I will close with quotes from two of hundreds of letters I have received from passionate Yukoners, from our families.

The first letter says:

I am just writing this letter on Christmas Eve. I just heard the most devastating news, and you are the only one I know that has the power to avert the tragedy in my life. I'm not sure how to go through Christmas and keep a good face for my 3 children when I don't know how we will be able to keep our house or vehicle, or even feed them in the New Year.

The second letter is from Axel Riemer, age 7, of Dawson City. He says:

My Dad works as a miner. His job is a good job. Why are you taking his job? I don't want my dad to leave. Please don't shut down mining. I like my dad at home. Thank you.

And the fish survive.

[The Budget, February 25th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, I would disagree with the member's assertion that the spending comes too late. It is only because of our prudent fiscal management over the years. When we did have a large deficit it restricted our ability to fund. We were spending money on interest and deficit payments.

Now that the deficit has been eliminated, we have the ability to provide the biggest tax cut in history of $100 billion, which, as I said, is continuing on. It also allows us to invest in programs for aboriginal people; to increase the disability tax credit for people with disabilities; and to invest in health care.

I am not sure on which items the member has suggested we might be overspending. Is it on health care? Is it the money for people with disabilities? Is it the investment in the tax cuts? Is it the investment in the infrastructure? Is it the investment in the military? I am not sure which one he is referring to.

In spite of the fact that we are helping in all these very needy areas, we also have huge tax reductions and contributions to pay off the national debt. I agree with the member fully that we should be doing as much as we can to pay the national debt, but in the 2003 calender year we will be reducing the personal income tax by $18 billion, corporate income tax by $2.5 billion and employment insurance by $3.6 billion. In the following year of 2004, the increases are even more dramatic: $22 billion in personal income tax; $3.7 billion in corporate income tax and $4.4 billion in employment insurance.

I think it is very balanced and this is what I have heard from many people. It has spending. It has serious tax reductions, especially for my riding, in the resource sector, in mining and in small business. It has provisions for contingency and provisions to pay down the national debt from the funds that remain.

[The Budget, February 25th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to rise today to speak to the budget, especially in relation to my riding in northern Canada.

I am delighted at the number of references in the budget to northern Canada, and I will mention those in my speech today. I have about 25 points but I will go through as many as I can.

The first item, which I am delighted to see in the budget and for which I lobbied hard, is the extension of support to the communities partnership initiative. This is the homeless initiative that was so popular across the nation. In Yukon in particular we had some very unique and innovative projects with an excellent local committee. It had more work to do and wanted the initiative extended for three years.

I was also happy to see $175 million for federal abandoned contaminated sites. It referred specifically to northern mine sites. We have some abandoned mines in northern Canada that have to be cleaned up. The Yukon salmon committee, for instance, asked me to pursue this, which I did. Therefore I am delighted to see that there is a fund to start working on these high risk sites in Canada.

I am sure we are all very happy about the excise tax exemption on bio-diesel fuel and other provisions to help the atmosphere.

The ongoing schedule of the biggest tax cut in history of $100 billion for personal and corporate taxes continues. Many people are quite happy with that.

One of the tax cuts that will have a great effect in the north is the cut in the resource tax rate from 28% to 21% over five years. The north has a very resource based economy and this should be helpful. Throughout history the biggest economic sector in Yukon has been mining. The above reduction, the deduction in the mine royalties tax and a new tax credit for eligible mineral exploration will all help the sector that has been most important to Yukon over the years.

The other type of mining in Yukon is gold placer mining which needs our support. It is the second largest private sector employer at the moment in the Yukon. In fact, it also attracts people to our largest sector which is tourism. Therefore it is very important that we provide our support for that.

The funding formula in the territories is unique in that if we lose revenues the funding formula from the federal government tops it up. If the Yukon government loses income tax revenues for instance, it is topped up. Therefore it is very important that we do not lose revenues from placer mining or any other sector because there is a major cost of millions of dollars to the federal government to replenish that.

We need economic stimulation in Yukon. With the third highest unemployment rate at the present time, we look forward to any future provisions to help the economy. I am delighted the government sent a team to Yukon and British Columbia to check the great potential megaproject of a railway from Alaska through Yukon and through B.C., which would be a very exciting project.

The $3 billion for infrastructure will go a long way toward economic development. The three northern territories have always talked about how important basic infrastructure is to the development of their economies. The $2 billion is an addition to the strategic infrastructure fund, plus $1 billion over 10 years for municipal infrastructure.

Something else that I was delighted to see, which specifically relates to the north, was the $32 million fund for the environmental and regulatory framework for the northern gas pipelines. The Alaska gas pipeline, which is one of the two, would be the largest such project in the history of the world. There will be huge benefits of hundreds of thousands of person years right across Canada.

We are also happy to see the skilled immigrants to rural areas initiative because we would like to access those skilled workers. People have known for years that a large majority of immigrants go to Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver.

I have been approached over the years on issues relating to child care. I am delighted to see $935 million in child care contributions and $35 million for aboriginal early learning and child care. We have a program in the Yukon called Head Start which has been exceptionally successful. I am constantly requested to get more money into that program because other new sites would like the successes of the communities that have used it. I am delighted to see that money because I have been asking for that for a long time.

Health care is the number one issue for Yukoners. We are delighted with the whole health care accord and the improvements. In the new areas, who can argue with drug assistance, better access to primary care and to home care? However we do have some problems that are unique and specific to the north, one being the recruitment of professionals. Therefore the human resource strategy should be very helpful to us.

The biggest thing Yukoners brought to me relating to health care was waiting lists. We are sort of hostage to the B.C. and Alberta system for waiting lists for major surgery and specialists. We are delighted that the new system put in place will reduce those lists.

The $1.3 billion in health care for first nations and Inuit people is very important to my riding. I worked on some issues in that area last summer so I am very happy to see that funding. Both in this budget and the last budget, I compliment both finance ministers on maintaining the $250 million green funds for the Federation of Canadian Municipalities. It has been an excellent program and I have always encouraged that it be continued.

Many Yukoners are in post-secondary educational institutions right across Canada so I am delighted to see the 2,000 new post-graduate degrees for master's and another 2,000 for doctorates. It is expensive enough for our students to survive the distance they have to go.

Another area, which specifically relates to the north and which I was once again delighted to see, is the $16 million for northern science research. This year the industry committee held hearings relating to how the granting councils distributed their large quantities of funding. During those hearings I was constantly lobbying for more money for the north. I was delighted and excited that the budget stated:

The granting councils will also be asked to enhance their support for northern research as part of the increased funding they receive in this budget.

For small businesses, people who are not on government pensions, an increase in RRSP contributions will allow them to take more control of funding their own old age security. There are lots of provisions to help small business. Small business is very important in my riding. They will now be allowed to keep their low 12% tax rate, up to $300,000 from $200,000, and the capital tax has been eliminated, which many businesses had requested.

I was also asked before the budget for money for national parks. There are some beautiful national parks in Yukon and I hope everyone will visit. There was $74 million and I am sure more to come in future years for not only the creation of 10 new parks and 5 marine areas, but in maintaining the biological integrity of the existing parks.

As chair of the foreign affairs and defence caucus I am happy to see the increased money for defence, for trade promotion in the United States and a doubling of international aid by 2010. Many Yukoners support international aid.

I am happy to see the increase in support for the military and coast guard, but with a caveat, of course, that some of that go toward protecting Canadian sovereignty in the north especially with the melting and opening of the Northwest Passage.

The national child benefit having gone up over 100% since 1996 is a great effort to reduce poverty. I only have one minute left but I want to mention all the items for aboriginal people, post-secondary education, water and waste water, aboriginal skills and training, money for the northern gas pipeline training first nations people, the urban aboriginal strategy and Aboriginal Business Canada at $20 million.

I am happy about the immunization strategy. My constituents have asked about that. I am also happy about the child disability benefit, the five year action plan for official languages for Association franco-yukonnaise, the money for historic places and the venture capital for BDC which will be important in my riding.

Climate change is important but it is more important in the north. We depend upon ice bridges for our economy. A lot of our permafrost affects our sewers and buildings. The budget contains $50 million for studying and research and it says specifically relating to northern Canada: $2 billion for things like wind energy--we have windmills in the north--alternative energies and fuels.

[Olympic Winter Games, February 24th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, on Saturday, February 22, residents of Vancouver, British Columbia showed their overwhelming support for Vancouver's bid to host the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games.

My constituents in Yukon and I, who would like to attend, would like to thank everyone in Vancouver who cast their ballots. Forty-six per cent of the eligible voters turned out, 134,791 citizens in all. Over 86,000 said yes to the 2010 games and yes to the Olympic ideals of peace and friendship through sport.

There are real benefits in supporting this bid. It will raise Canada's international profile and contribute to increased foreign tourism and investment to boost the economy and create jobs. Most exciting of all are the rich opportunities that our athletes and coaches will enjoy as a result of training and competing on home ice.

The Government of Canada is a strong supporter of Vancouver 2010. It has given $9.1 million to the bid corporation and has recently announced another $10 million to go toward training for high performance athletes.

I wish to ask members to please join the citizens of my riding in thanking the residents of Vancouver and congratulating the 2010 bid corporation for its success to date.

[Supply, February 24th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The member is not allowed to mention who is present in the House.

[Supply, February 24th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, I have a question and a comment and I will start with my comment.

We are talking about the Auditor General's report. Not that long ago there was a report relating to abandoned mine sites. We have some contaminated sites in the north. There was a need to deal with them and the Auditor General pointed this out. I would like to commend the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development for making sure this was in the budget. I believe there is a $175 million fund to deal with the contaminated sites starting with the most risky. That was a very positive reaction. Of course I lobbied for this because we have such sites in my riding. I am very happy that the minister responded.

I always enjoy the member's detailed input. My question relates to HRDC. The member's party continually brings up the old situation and it has a negative effect for Canadians who really need the help. The system has now been fixed and the administration is on solid ground. However, by constantly bringing up this situation and pushing for so many rules, it is causing many delays in the program delivery and there is great expense on the part of the government to deliver programs to those who need them.

I am sure the Alliance Party is in support of the programs that help people in need. There are people with disabilities, for instance. The NGOs have told me that because of constantly bringing this up, there are delays in the processing and so much expense will be added to the debt and taxes because the Alliance members are pushing this so far. It would be a tremendous help to society if they would let the situation go now that it has been fixed and if they would stop creating more problems for those in need.