Government Operations committee  I'm sorry. Are you marrying the question to the McKinsey contract?

Government Operations committee  It's hard to say. I agree there's something funny about the data and increase. I think there are potentially data entry errors or issues around how to count. I want to clarify that I think Mr. Boots did a good job on that, but the data we present shouldn't be taken as a perfect

Government Operations committee  Absolutely, and we've always said, when we've presented the data around what stands out as a huge percentage increase from McKinsey's contracts over the time period, is that it may very well just reflect specific contracts that were given at any given time to those different firm

Government Operations committee  Yes, I know that, but it's not personal. I haven't hung out with them.

Government Operations committee  I don't know what happened in those cases. No, as the rules are written and as I've understood the process, it doesn't seem to be something most ministers—let alone prime ministers—pay attention to.

Government Operations committee  There are a few things there. One is that, in particular, whenever firms are contracted in to develop digital systems or any kind of citizen-facing digital interface, there is always opportunity for lots of data to be collected that, in some cases, would have privacy questions

Government Operations committee  In some cases the firms you're working with will have best-in-practice security and privacy measures in place, so it's not necessarily a problem. This has long-standing been a challenge of government relying on non-governmental players for its work. Just by virtue of developing a

Government Operations committee  I can't, no.

Government Operations committee  I'll basically say that, yes, the issue of IP and data ownership whenever you contract out is a really important one. In a number of cases, governments are finding themselves buying back data from firms they contract with, especially for service delivery. It's like a twofer for t

Government Operations committee  No, I've never seen that before. I haven't really been looking for it, to be fair, but no, I've never seen that before.

Government Operations committee  No. To your point, when I was going through the focus of this study, there is a.... I said earlier that McKinsey was a distraction, but I should clarify. On the issue of how to make the public service more resilient and to better manage procurement, I think the focus on McKinse

Government Operations committee  I can't say. I think that's an eminently studiable question. You could do some public opinion research to see how the McKinsey contracts are changing public opinion toward the state. Yes—but I would just be offering opinion, at that point. I don't know the extent to which Canadia

Government Operations committee  No.

Government Operations committee  Most of this kind of rampant outsourcing, coupled with systematic neglect or underinvestment in the state, really gets going in the eighties in most jurisdictions and in Canada as well. That was the kind of age of outsourcing, and it has continued since. Management consultants ha

Government Operations committee  I appreciate that there are particular dynamics that have led to this specific focus on McKinsey, but in my opinion, it doesn't make sense to focus on McKinsey.