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Industry committee  No, not necessarily, because I believe Bell also wants to stop fraud calls, because people are cancelling their land lines. One of their reasons for doing so would be just to stop the bleeding. They thus may well do it anyway. They may want to sell it in certain contexts; non-c

March 12th, 2020Committee meeting

John Lawford

Industry committee  By that, do you mean protecting any regulations we set up so as to require this?

March 12th, 2020Committee meeting

John Lawford

Industry committee  I would say yes, from our group's point of view, but getting it to be part of an overall digital policy that goes with trade policy and makes sense is the trick.

March 12th, 2020Committee meeting

John Lawford

Industry committee  The point of the comment at the end of my remarks was that the fraud provision in the Criminal Code may need to be made more specific for telephone-delivered or phished fraud.

March 12th, 2020Committee meeting

John Lawford

Industry committee  I won't go quite as far as to say it's ineffectiveness of the organization. They have a mandate, which is limited now, to stop telemarketing that's illegal and to do the do-not-call list. That's it. Their job is not to stop fraud, as Mr. Scott said very clearly.

March 12th, 2020Committee meeting

John Lawford

Industry committee  Yes, it would help.

March 12th, 2020Committee meeting

John Lawford

Industry committee  This is the question of how to design a law that would specifically call something phone fraud, or wire fraud, as they call it in the United States, so that it's a separate fraud offence. You could think of things. For example, at the moment, getting somebody to prosecute a fra

March 12th, 2020Committee meeting

John Lawford

Industry committee  Here's the weird thing about this whole area. The calls that are made as robocalls are illegal. You're not allowed to call for commercial purposes with robocalls—the end. The only exceptions are for hospitals and schools and such things. The calls are illegal, but once somebody a

March 12th, 2020Committee meeting

John Lawford

Industry committee  There is not an easy solution, but I'm suggesting that perhaps there could be a well-crafted law that might, if there are actual victims who lose money, trace it back to the calling operation. If you can prove that all those calls were sent out as stage one phishing—“Look, I got

March 12th, 2020Committee meeting

John Lawford

Industry committee  That's certainly my understanding. In particular, it's newer Canadians, who may be more scared of calls.

March 12th, 2020Committee meeting

John Lawford

Industry committee  I would say yes and no, and then let me explain. For the blocking of spoof numbers, that's free. It's a CRTC ruling. For STIR/SHAKEN, it depends on the way they implement it. For the network thing, I really think Bell and these guys are going to charge you $10 a month.

March 12th, 2020Committee meeting

John Lawford

Industry committee  If you end up with a system where consumers are paying for some of this protection, then I think that having some kind of ranking would be one way to do it. If it's a regulatory requirement that it be offered, then the CRTC should still collect statistics to see if they're comp

March 12th, 2020Committee meeting

John Lawford

Industry committee  I'd just add that thinking about digital policy in a more holistic way will help us a lot. We're not quite there yet. Involving the Privacy Commissioner would assist with STIR/SHAKEN, but with the other network-level blocking as well, to see whether there are any concerns. Perhap

March 12th, 2020Committee meeting

John Lawford

Industry committee  First, the CRTC should be encouraged to launch an inquiry into the SIM swap. It's a fairly minor problem at the moment, but soon it's going to get worse. Second, as I said, the CRTC is sort of caught by the legislation, which doesn't give it enough power. I'm not exactly sure wh

March 12th, 2020Committee meeting

John Lawford

Industry committee  The CRTC is quite proactive about spoofed numbers. In terms of SIM swap, however, it's a real mess. The CRTC assures us that there will be a solution, but that it will be communicated to the companies only, with no transparency. So I do not trust the CRTC in this matter, and I a

March 12th, 2020Committee meeting

John Lawford