Public Safety committee  Without saying, by the way, that even having the external oversight would fix everything else in the bill, yes, but it's not quite the same as the police complaints commissions. What we do say is that there needs to be—

Public Safety committee  —someone external with a decision-making authority. Oftentimes, the external commissions for policing can make a finding but can't actually impose discipline, and so on. At some point, the external person does need to be able to make a decision, because that is how you're going

Public Safety committee  Our organization typically takes a position that written reasons for decisions that have a real, fundamental effect on someone are always a good thing. I wouldn't say that its inclusion would cure the other defects in the bill, and you're not taking me to say that, but sure, wri

Public Safety committee  I think that would be quite important. The position that we took, and continue to take, in our litigation is that voluntary, in many cases, is not voluntary. Currently, if someone wants to be in administrative segregation, to us that's an indication that there is a failure of so

Public Safety committee  I understand. Thank you.

Public Safety committee  We don't see why not. For example, in the Leask ruling in B.C., it was found that to the extent that the current system allows any placement of someone with mental illness or disability in segregation, it violates the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It discriminates against them

Public Safety committee  Thank you for the question. We've never taken the position in our litigation that there shouldn't be a form of isolation or confinement that CSC could resort to when it needed to in very serious cases and emergencies, etc. Under the current system, our position is that there sh

Public Safety committee  Yes, I can bring it up.

Public Safety committee  Thank you for the question, Ms. Dabrusin. What we have seen in the existing regime is that, as I was just explaining, purposes that were not set out as the reasons that people go into administrative segregation, or purposes for which people were put into administrative segregati

Public Safety committee  Sure.

Public Safety committee  Thank you, Mr. Dubé. It is very important. Moreover, the court in B.C. concluded that it was necessary that an external oversight body actually have a decision-making power. The hope would be that if everything went pretty well under this bill, you wouldn't have to be using that

Public Safety committee  We do think that is problematic and we have good reason to think that. As the correctional investigator observed, and this was accepted as well by the trial court, there were a lot of other reasons that folks were winding up, for example, in administrative segregation that went b

Public Safety committee  I wish it were so, but I don't think it will be. I don't see any reason to expect that. The bill continues to permit a lot of the same conditions to persist. The opportunities to have the four hours out of the cell and the two hours of meaningful contact can be taken away under

Public Safety committee  As far as exactly how it would be constructed is concerned, there are probably different ways. What we do submit there is only one way to go about is whether it ought to be external to CSC or internal, independent within CSC but over to one side, outside the chain of command. We

Public Safety committee  With great respect to the minister and his intention, I don't think we should be trusting CSC to do this. Without seeing regulations, it's very difficult to say, okay, we'll all sign off on that. While the minister may ask this committee and parliamentarians to trust CSC, the m