Government Operations committee  In terms of preference, I mean they're quite different programs. One is a percentage of the contract, so that's bringing in SMEs as subcontractors potentially. That's important, and they're there already. Although we don't monitor, we know that they subcontract. I think there i

Government Operations committee  It's simply an association. However, working with PSPC, we will be able to begin that kind of more robust analysis, and that work is under way.

Government Operations committee  I think that is the driver here. The percentage of businesses that do not think of the federal government as a contracting opportunity is far more significant than is that of those that are concerned about the actual procurement process.

Government Operations committee  I would strongly encourage it. I've not seen a lot of role modelling. I've not seen a lot of good news stories. I've not seen a lot of social capital being built up around this. We have a whole infrastructure of small business organizations in Canada. Does everybody know somebody

Government Operations committee  I would say have a strong communication program. I would recommend looking at a 25% goal for procuring from SMEs, and not just because I'm an academic but because there's very little data. Given the size and spend of our federal government, I think this is very badly needed, part

Government Operations committee  It really speaks to the examination of scorecards and what that scorecard might look like. Does that include some experiential evidence, and that would be scored, some diversity evidence, and that would be scored and weighted? Then overall, ensure there is a component that says,

Government Operations committee  Well, I would discourage that initially if we're talking about supporting a diversity of SMEs, given the low propensity of SMEs to supply to the government at this point—not contract volume but the numbers. The numbers bring innovation and representation, and I think that that cl

Government Operations committee  I think there is. I think we see evidence with organizations like WEConnect International that are doing this globally that it's a deep dive into the organization. It's not a superficial website that you tick the box. WBE Canada knows its client base. However, that's only two

Government Operations committee  Thank you. Back to the metric question, when we're looking at just 51% women-owned, that becomes problematic when the owner dilutes some of the ownership and brings equity capital into the firm. Do we punish growth-oriented women who may no longer own 51%? I think the idea of mu

Government Operations committee  Yes, there is an argument which says that by increasing the diversity of suppliers, it enhances competitiveness and a more robust look at diversity amongst that pool.

Government Operations committee  Perhaps we should both throw out a number, but...and it is just that. But I think we could learn from the experience of the U.S., which has a commitment to 25%. We know that 98% of businesses in this country are small. We know they're Canadian-owned and we know that they contribu

Government Operations committee  It could be all the heterogeneity and the intersectionality of what it is to be a business owner. The other point that Allan brought up is subcontracting. We know that women do not fare well. Often they're brought into contracts as subcontractors on the RFP, and then they fall o

Government Operations committee  Well, that is certainly another metric. It speaks to the volume of contracting dollars, but it doesn't speak to the number of firms. If this government is interested in engaging more SMEs as opposed to letting a higher percentage of contract to the same SMEs, I think there is mer

Government Operations committee  I think they're fair in that dealing with the private sector you have an element of loyalty to a supplier base. With the federal government, the contracts are always up for new renewal. You lose the asset of the relationship, the social capital, that is built between a supplier a

Government Operations committee  I would suggest that it makes good business sense. It rewards your loyal supplier base, with the provision that there's the opportunity for fresh suppliers into the pipeline and the opportunity to turn over suppliers to enhance competitiveness and the quality of the deliverables.