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Public Accounts committee  Yes. It is a dynamic space. I mentioned the situation in Europe, where they are looking at a whole series of applications of hydrogen and hydrogen generation. Asia is another area where there is very significant interest and potential. We have been in conversations with our friends in Korea and Japan about the possibilities for hydrogen.

December 2nd, 2022Committee meeting

John Hannaford

Public Accounts committee  I'll turn to my colleague on this one.

December 2nd, 2022Committee meeting

John Hannaford

Public Accounts committee  It certainly has potential, yes.

December 2nd, 2022Committee meeting

John Hannaford

Public Accounts committee  Over time, the price point will drop. This is one of the reasons why we're looking at the sorts of incentives and frameworks we are discussing right now. Right now, the relative price is higher with respect to hydrogen. That's partially a question of scale. It's partially a question, then, of investments in technology.

December 2nd, 2022Committee meeting

John Hannaford

Public Accounts committee  One of the applications here would be to take, say, wind. If you look at onshore or offshore wind on the east coast, you have the possibility of generating electricity that would create hydrogen, which could then be transported or consumed in another way. It's a way of capturing electricity, and it then becomes a vector for electricity, as well.

December 2nd, 2022Committee meeting

John Hannaford

Public Accounts committee  I'll turn to my colleague on this.

December 2nd, 2022Committee meeting

John Hannaford

Public Accounts committee  I think one of the reasons we're continuing to have the conversations with experts is to make sure that we have the most accurate number possible.

December 2nd, 2022Committee meeting

John Hannaford

Public Accounts committee  As I said, Mr. Chair, the ongoing review of our modelling is to be as accurate as possible. We'll see the outcomes of that with our next—

December 2nd, 2022Committee meeting

John Hannaford

Public Accounts committee  The numbers that are reflected in the report are from 2020.

December 2nd, 2022Committee meeting

John Hannaford

Public Accounts committee  Mr. Chair, the intention of the report was to show the full potential. We have taken a series of tangible steps over the course of the last several years, including significant investments in the production of hydrogen through natural gas sources. That's concurrent with steps that have been taken by provincial governments and will be reflected in further work that we do with the provincial and territorial governments through the regional table approach.

December 2nd, 2022Committee meeting

John Hannaford

Public Accounts committee  We're absolutely mindful of cost as a general matter with respect to energy policy. The recent announcements with respect to things like heat pumps were with a view to the energy cost for individuals. We view hydrogen as a matter of potential, not only for the application domestically but also because there is a global market that is forming here.

December 2nd, 2022Committee meeting

John Hannaford

Public Accounts committee  We're seeing them now. There are hydrogen vehicles driving on Canadian roads.

December 2nd, 2022Committee meeting

John Hannaford

Public Accounts committee  There are going to be a variety of different ways of dealing with transportation. It's possible that light vehicles may steer more towards battery technologies rather than hydrogen technologies. It may be that the way the market will work is to steer more towards medium and heavy vehicles applying hydrogen technologies.

December 2nd, 2022Committee meeting

John Hannaford

Public Accounts committee  Mr. Chair, as I mentioned, the geopolitics have certainly changed in Europe, obviously, as a result of the aggression of Russia in Ukraine, and that has really brought to the fore the geopolitics of energy. Our partners are looking to Canada to continue to be a significant energy supplier and are looking at various means by which that could take place.

December 2nd, 2022Committee meeting

John Hannaford

Public Accounts committee  Mr. Chair, there are several elements to that question. First of all, the ongoing modelling is something that continues to evolve. We mentioned earlier that we continue to have conversations with colleagues at ECCC, with the CER and with outside sources to make sure that we have refined models of what the future of hydrogen is.

December 2nd, 2022Committee meeting

John Hannaford