Bill C-53

Recognition of Certain Métis Governments in Alberta, Ontario and Saskatchewan and Métis Self-Government Act

An Act respecting the recognition of certain Métis governments in Alberta, Ontario and Saskatchewan, to give effect to treaties with those governments and to make consequential amendments to other Acts

This enactment provides for the recognition of certain Métis governments in Alberta, Ontario and Saskatchewan and provides a framework for the implementation of treaties entered into by those Métis governments and the Government of Canada. Finally, it makes consequential amendments to other Acts.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

On the advice of my legislative clerks, I'd like to indicate that Bill C-53 provides for the recognition of certain Métis governments as defined in the bill. Moreover, clause 8 of the bill provides that “the Métis collectivity set out in column 2” of the schedule “holds the right to self-determination, including the inherent right of self-government recognized and affirmed by section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982.”

This amendment seeks to introduce the possibility of a dispute resolution process “If a Métis collectivity or an Indigenous governing body raises an issue in relation to the authority of a Métis government set out in column 1 of the schedule”. As House of Commons Procedure and Practice, third edition, states on page 770, “An amendment to a bill that was referred to a committee after second reading is out of order if it is beyond the scope and principle of the bill.”

In the opinion of the chair, the introduction of a dispute resolution process between a Métis collectivity and an indigenous governing body is a new concept that is beyond the scope of the bill.

Therefore, I rule this amendment inadmissible.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Good afternoon, everyone.

Welcome back to the continuation of meeting number 92. We're working on the clause-by-clause study of Bill C-53, an act respecting the recognition of certain Métis governments in Alberta, Ontario and Saskatchewan.

Before we get into the meeting today with some of the procedural things we need to do, in the spirit of the season and with the goodwill we saw the other day, I have a little box of Merci chocolates that I'll pass around the table. Officials are welcome to join in. Staff, please make sure that they get to you.

For those who have joined us at the back, we'll make sure that you get some chocolates as well to celebrate the progress we have been making on this bill and that we will hopefully continue to make today.

It's a little token of gratitude from—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Good afternoon, everyone. It's good to be back for meeting number 92. I call this meeting to order.

We are here today to do clause-by-clause on Bill C-53, an act respecting the recognition of certain Métis governments in Alberta, Ontario and Saskatchewan, to give effect to treaties with those governments and to make consequential amendments to other acts.

Now that we're in session, I'd like to remind everybody that there are no screenshots and no photos allowed.

I'd like to give a big welcome to everybody who has come to see us today, all the members of the public who are here. Welcome.

As always, welcome back to our officials. We appreciate your being here again today.

(On clause 8)

Colleagues, when we left off, we were on clause 8, and I had Mr. Schmale on top of the speaking list from the last meeting.

I'll turn it over to Mr. Schmale.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I thank Sébastien for his motion and his sharing with me previously. I think we've gotten some answers. I'm wondering if we can't table it at the next meeting so we can refine and amend what we've already provided to you, and then have a conversation about the substance of the first part of it for the next meeting. It doesn't appear like we're going to make any progress that draws the Bill C-53 clause-by-clause to a debate.

I'm wondering if it's okay to discuss this at the next meeting, as time is running short. It would be nice to get to one vote before we close tonight.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Since there’s five minutes left in the meeting, I just want to seize the opportunity and table the motion I sent to the clerk so that it can pass.

I was quite surprised by the speediness of the response sent to us before the committee’s meeting, and I want to highlight that.

You’ll understand that the second part of this motion can be deleted, but I will still read out the first part:

That the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs call upon the Government of Canada (1) to clarify how the Crown intends to conduct future negotiations with the Métis of Ontario, Saskatchewan and Alberta with respect to the inherent rights of section 5 of the Constitution Act of Canada, and to confirm that no overlap will be created as a result of such treaties on First Nations territories without having their free, prior and informed consent on these issues and on the territories of Quebec;

During a previous meeting of this committee, Mr. Justin Roy, councillor of the Kebaowek First Nation, talked about the lack of true recognition of title and rights. In response to one of the questions posed by my colleague, Marilène Gill, he said:

If this bill were to go through, it would have large impacts on our unceded Algonquin territory, only because we have been the rights and title holders of these lands since time immemorial.

This seems to me to be a fundamental issue that merits clarification. I think my role as a legislator also means acting as an intermediary to communicate the needs of my community.

I’m ready to take a step to facilitate voting on Bill C‑53 and passing it, but I have to provide clarification to the first nations in my community in order to get their support.

For example, it must be specified in writing that Bill C‑53 does not apply to Quebec’s territories, because that is at the heart of the Algonquin Anishinaabe nation. Mr. Roy testified to convey that.

In the case of the Chalk River site and consultations held by the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission, tabling the bill took four or five years because Indigenous peoples had to be consulted. Obviously, it was too late by then, and the Commission recommended that the project go forward. There was an impact on their ancestral lands and it could have an impact on the very safety of all citizens.

In my opinion, situations that potentially involve an overlap between territories do indeed require this kind of clarification. They are part of the determining factors to review before supporting or rejecting Bill C‑53.

Currently, the chiefs of first nations communities back home, who are Algonquin, are asking me to oppose this bill.

I therefore suggest you support the motion you received by email. Obviously, when it comes to the second part of it, thank you once again for the answer you provided.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will refrain from making any lame jokes.

It asks that Bill C-53, in the schedule, be amended by replacing the portion of item 1 in column 2 on page 11 with the following:

Métis Communities of Alberta that consent to be represented by the Métis Nation of Alberta

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to move the amendment. I think this is more housekeeping than anything.

We're asking that Bill C-53 be amended by adding after line 17 on page 10 the following new clause:

26 If Bill S-13, introduced in the 1st session of the 44th Parliament and entitled An Act to amend the Interpretation Act and to make related amendments to other Acts, receives royal assent, then, on the first day on which both section 1 of that Act and section 3.1 of this Act are in force, that section 3.1 is repealed.

This is something I believe we all agreed on. It's more of a housekeeping issue than anything.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

While you're saying that, it's actually referenced in the preamble of Bill C-53. It's the “recognition and implementation agreements”.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

It was just more to add some context. I think what they're talking about is the legally binding agreement that comes into effect once Bill C-53 passes.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

It's just something to maybe add to the conversation or just to hear myself talk.

Once Bill C-53 passes, it then puts into effect, in essence, the agreements that were signed between the three organizations and the government.

Right at the beginning of chapter 12, on page 31, it reads, “The Parties are committed to negotiations with a view to reaching a self-government Treaty within two years after the Effective Date”.

I think it's important to realize that Ms. Idlout and Mr. Viersen kind of opened the door to.... There are some legal ramifications after Bill C-53 happens that, through the treaty process, may or may not include that. I'm not saying it does, but if it does, if I get the conversation, I think what they're looking at is to maybe put some barriers in that allow those who have opposing views on this legislation to have some comfort, if you will—if that's the right choice of words.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Good afternoon, colleagues and witnesses.

Thank you to our witnesses for coming back for our meeting this afternoon.

We are now on meeting number 91 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs. I recognize that we are meeting on the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe peoples.

Pursuant to the House order of reference adopted on June 21, 2023, and pursuant to the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, October 26, the committee is meeting to proceed with the clause-by-clause of Bill C-53, an act respecting the recognition of certain Métis governments in Alberta, Ontario and Saskatchewan.

We left off this morning on clause 8.

We have a great audience joining us today and, just as a reminder, now that we're in session, there's no photography and there is no recording. That applies to members and, of course, officials. If you want to capture the moment, you'll have to do it afterwards.

We're on clause 8. We left off with me asking if the member wanted to move amendment CPC-3.2. We had a general discussion on clause 8. I had nobody else on the speaking list, so now I'll move to CPC-3.2—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you.

Next on my list I have Ms. Idlout.

Lori, before I go to you, I just want to say this. Yesterday, as we adjourned, I said that I had requests for resources for the rest of this week. When I went to bed last night, we had not heard anything. I was notified at about 8:30 this morning that the request had come through and the resources we received for today were starting at 9:00 a.m. We therefore could have started at 9:00 a.m. I've been clear that, as chair, my job is to secure resources to enable the discussion to happen on Bill C-53. It's up to members to do with that as they see fit and to have debate.

We talked yesterday, and one of the solutions put out there was for clause 8 to be stood in order to allow members to come up with wording. This would allow us to move on to clause 9. Clause 8 could be held before clause 2 in our proceedings.

It was short notice, but that's what we got. That's what we're working with. I have a request in for tomorrow, just to give you notice. Right now, it's from noon until 6:00 p.m., but I'm happy to extend that until midnight if we want to. We have a request for resources on Thursday and Friday. If we need to keep going into Christmas, I can explore what that looks like as well. As chair, I need to be in town, and I'm willing to do that in order to continue to facilitate the discussion.

That's why we have the resources today, with short notice. I appreciate everyone making it here on short notice. That's where we're at. We're back on the discussion of clause 8.

Next on my list, related to the motion to adjourn with conditions, I'll go to Ms. Idlout.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Good morning, colleagues. I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 90 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs. We recognize that we are meeting on the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Colleagues, today I was able to get some extra resources. I thank everyone for making it here on short notice. Good morning.

We're meeting to continue our clause-by-clause review of Bill C-53. We left off yesterday on the general discussion of clause 8. That's where we're at. I don't have a speaking list for clause 8.

I had Arnold first and then Gary.

Indigenous Services

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Mr. Chair, Bill C-29 was introduced on the last day of the June 2022 session, which was about the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation. Bill C-38 was introduced on December 14, 2022, and not revisited until 11 months later, again on the last day of a session. Bill C-53 was introduced on the last day of the session in June of 2023, and today we have the introduction of water legislation, not on the last day but the last week of a session.

Does the member believe that the government is serious about its promise to indigenous people when, at the last moment and at the end of the last four sessions of Parliament, the government chooses to introduce indigenous legislation?

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Madam Chair, I thought the member was going to talk about Bill C-53.

Nonetheless, I would note that the Alberta government has been one of the few governments in this country to put together a fund so that indigenous communities could have an equity stake. They can use that fund to pursue equity stakes in major energy projects. This has brought economic reconciliation to first nations across northern Alberta, ensuring that all Canadians get to participate in the economy and ensuring prosperity for everyone.

When people can take home a powerful paycheque, it gives them the freedom to live their life in the way they feel is necessary. I will never apologize for ensuring that we can have full economic reconciliation in this country.