Bill C-53

Recognition of Certain Métis Governments in Alberta, Ontario and Saskatchewan and Métis Self-Government Act

An Act respecting the recognition of certain Métis governments in Alberta, Ontario and Saskatchewan, to give effect to treaties with those governments and to make consequential amendments to other Acts

This enactment provides for the recognition of certain Métis governments in Alberta, Ontario and Saskatchewan and provides a framework for the implementation of treaties entered into by those Métis governments and the Government of Canada. Finally, it makes consequential amendments to other Acts.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

UNDRIP is, as Gary mentioned earlier, something that we worked on and that this committee worked on leading up to 2019 and 2021. In a world where we're in the process of implementing UNDRIP at every departmental level, as a whole of government, it's very important that the legislation we bring forward is in line with the principles of UNDRIP. It's essential that we recognize what self-determination looks like and what it means for governments to dictate and to control matters. We're now in a generation and in an era where, for self-determination, it is the nations and the people impacted who will make those decisions. I strongly believe this bill does that.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you for that, Minister.

We've talked about how we're trying to be consistent with UNDRIP, especially article 33, which gives nations the ability to determine who their own membership is. Is Bill C-53 consistent with UNDRIP as written? Can you talk a bit about some of the things that we did put in place to make sure that we are consistent with UNDRIP?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Yes, and this is where the review process is important. There is a review process and there is also a cross-checking with the registrar in terms of the Indian Act to make sure that there's no duplication. Ultimately, if somebody meets all those requirements, then they're admitted as members.

I think the question that we need to address in the future, and with urgency, is the issue of broader issues of definitions under the act that preclude some people from being members of certain communities. I think that's work that we still need to do. It is important, and I acknowledge it, and I think it's something that we need to....

We can't have that cloud the conversation here. The mistakes of the past we cannot repeat in modern legislation where we are trying to avoid and learn from our past mistakes. I think that's really what we're trying to do with Bill C-53.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

I have met with the Chiefs of Ontario. I spoke at their AGM last week. I've met with a number of chiefs individually. I have met chiefs in smaller groups. I have listened to them intently in terms of their concerns. The concerns that were laid out are not what are in the bill.

The assurance I can give them today, and the assurance I can give you, Lori, is that Bill C-53 is essentially a recognition of the governance of the Métis of Ontario. It does not in any way deal with harvesting rights. It does not deal with land rights. The treaties contemplated by Bill C-53, again, do not contemplate either land or harvesting rights.

I don't know how else to give that assurance. It is in the language in the text—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I have 10 seconds left and I think you can answer with a simple yes or no: are the rights and titles of other first nations or Métis nations likely to be affected if Bill C‑53 is passed?

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I'd like to continue in the same vein as earlier. You mentioned the issue of trust, and I'm very pleased about that. It's true that trust must be earned with indigenous, Métis and Inuit peoples.

A chief in my riding, Jean-Charles Piétacho, says—and this is also what we saw at the committee—that it's been centuries, some 500 years, since these peoples have had a voice. Clearly, they are now going to have their say. That's what several witnesses said about reconciliation. They said they agreed that nations should have rights.

They talk about reconciliation, but they'd also like to talk about truth. We also have to agree on truth. I think truth—as my colleague Mr. Vidal also mentioned earlier—is part of the process of gaining trust.

I'd like to come back to my previous question, because I didn't get a clear answer. The Kebaowek community and others maintain that Bill C‑53 currently opens up a possibility, not an eventuality as you say, but really a possibility.

I'm not just talking about the present. I'm talking about the future, too. If we project into the future without any time limit, once Bill C-53 is in effect, is there any possibility that there will be any impact on the rights and titles of Kebaowek, for example, or other Métis or first nations communities?

[Anna Gainey, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount, QC]

Okay.

The other thing that came up a few times is the Powley decision from 2003. Are there any insights you'd like to share with respect to Bill C-53 and how it acknowledges or builds upon the significance of that decision? I know 30 seconds is probably not a lot of time for that, but I'll give you a chance.

Thank you.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

This is the legislative process that enshrines Bill C-53 into law. It provides a framework for what the next step looks like, which is the treaty process, and ratification of the treaty is contemplated by an order in council. It's unlikely for it to come back to committee, but of course the committee is the master of its own domain, and at any point it can request updates from governments on these processes.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Yes. Thank you for the question.

I'm going to start, and then maybe I'll ask Martin to add to that.

Bill C-53 will essentially recognize the three Métis governments in question—Ontario, Saskatchewan and Alberta. Once the recognition is complete, other discussions will be undertaken at another table regarding a possible treaty, which again will be limited to issues around membership and governance and matters internal to the organization.

At that time, there will be a process whereby there will be consultations. I think in this particular case—and Martin could maybe add to this—once the consultations are complete, if there are things outside of what was contemplated in the agreement—new concerns that come forward—then there will be the process to amend and rework the treaty. Once it's reworked, then there will be a process of ratification. Once it's ratified, it will come to government for an order in council recognition of the treaty.

I think Martin could maybe add something about the processing, because he's done this many, many times.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Okay.

In Bill C-53, there are three provisions. The first one is in number two of the preamble. The second part is in paragraph 4(b). The third part is in clause 8, where these provisions specifically talk about self-government, saying that the Métis that have been selected to be recognized to have self-governing rights are “authorized”.

In what way have you determined that these three—the MNO, the MNA and the MN-S—are the ones that are the authorized Métis governments whose rights should be respected?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

I met with them in my recent visit to Alberta—not with all of the settlements, but I did meet with the major ones. Essentially, the recognition that is happening with Bill C-53 is not for all Métis organizations. For example, the Manitoba Métis Federation is not part of Bill C-53. The ones subject to this bill are the Métis nations of Ontario, Saskatchewan and Alberta.

There are some groups that are going through a process of recognition as section 35 rights holders. At some point, if they choose to organize, we will support them once a recognition is there. Right now, it is these three that are subject to Bill C-53.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

We have heard from the Metis Settlements General Council in Alberta, who have their own government. Have you consulted with them in preparation for Bill C-53?

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Excuse me for interrupting again, but I'd like to clarify my question.

You're talking about Bill C‑ 53. I'm talking about what this bill—which will not be applied in a vacuum—could lead to. It could lead to something else.

My question is very simple. Is there a possibility of this happening, or no possibility at all? I'm not saying it could happen the very next day, but is it possible? So you can answer me yes or no, depending on whether there is a possibility or not.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you, Marilène.

Look, there is no impact on other indigenous peoples' section 35 rights with Bill C-53. If it comes to a stage—

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you.

I want to highlight article 4 of the UN declaration. It says:

Indigenous peoples, in exercising their right to self-determination, have the right to autonomy or self-government in matters relating to their internal and local affairs, as well as ways and means for financing their autonomous functions.

Essentially, we're talking about an internal structure. Bill C-53 recognizes the three organizations, the Métis Nation of Ontario, Métis Nation— Saskatchewan and Métis Nation of Alberta, as self-governing authorities.

As a result, it is my considered opinion that—