Bill C-52 (Historical)

Fair Rail Freight Service Act

An Act to amend the Canada Transportation Act (administration, air and railway transportation and arbitration)

This enactment amends the Canada Transportation Act to require a railway company, on a shipper’s request, to make the shipper an offer to enter into a contract respecting the manner in which the railway company must fulfil its service obligations to the shipper. It also creates an arbitration process to establish the terms of such a contract if the shipper and the railway company are unable to agree on them. The enactment also amends provisions related to air transportation to streamline internal processes and certain administrative provisions of that Act.

Fair Rail Freight Service Act

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, again, I would like to thank the member for her answer. I completely agree with her.

I am also bothered by the fact that the Conservative government boasts about defending the economy and Canada's economic growth. I do not know if the Conservatives know this, but the poor quality of rail freight transportation services costs Canada's economy hundreds of millions of dollars each year. Since they have come to power, they have been twiddling their thumbs and have not been serious enough about improving and maintaining Canada's rail system. This robs the Canadian economy, our small businesses, our exporters and even our big businesses of hundreds of millions of dollars a year.

Does my colleague believe that the losses really are this big? Does she feel that the Conservative government should finally open its eyes if it truly wants to develop and grow the Canadian economy and inject money into our rail transportation system?

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to again thank my colleague for his question.

As I mentioned in my speech, 80% of shippers are dissatisfied with the services provided by the two companies that have a monopoly on this means of transportation.

Instead of supporting the monopoly model, the Conservatives should instead look after small and medium-sized businesses. The government should pass legislation that has teeth in order to improve the level of service and try to compensate shippers, particularly in agriculture, who are incurring millions of dollars in losses, as I said.

Unfortunately, these shippers have to check for themselves if their goods arrived at the right place and in what condition they got there. At times, perishable goods have rotted by the time they reach their destination. We can imagine the kinds of losses these people incur.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will elaborate on what my colleague said. Just a few seconds ago, she mentioned that two rail companies, CN and CP, have a monopoly. She also mentioned that 80% of exporters are dissatisfied with the poor service, such as when goods do not arrive on time or in good condition.

When exporters want to shop around and get the best price or the best deal, they ask for bids from these two major companies, which, quite frankly, have a monopoly. There is also a big difference in rates. That is why I believe the NDP approach is reasonable.

What we find particularly unfortunate about Bill C-52 is that the Conservative government had a good opportunity to legislate or have input on the rate difference.

I would like to know what my colleague thinks of the fact that Bill C-52 says nothing about rates, which I believe Canadian exporters want the federal government to address.

[Djaouida Sellah, NDP, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, once again I thank my hon. colleague for the question. Indeed, what I criticized in my speech was the monopoly held by the two large companies.

I said that the Conservatives are unfortunately not encouraging small and medium-sized businesses. As my colleague pointed out, the losses will be huge. That is why we also want to talk about prices. When people have no choice, or when they have to choose between only two companies, what will they do with their merchandise? They are between a rock and a hard place: either they ship their merchandise with one of those two companies or they let their product rot, if it is an agricultural product.

It seems that all the other companies have no choice. There is no competition. There are no jobs when a monopoly is held by just two companies. Unfortunately, shippers really have no choice.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it has probably become quite clear from my questions and comments that Canada's railway system is something I care about a great deal.

During my 10-minute speech, I will not necessarily focus on the details of the bill. My NDP colleague just did that, as did many other NDP members, including the hon. member for Trinity—Spadina, our transport critic, who is doing an incredible job in this area.

Bill C-52 affects me personally. We have heard a lot about how this bill will have a national impact and about its many deficiencies, which the NDP has criticized.

I just mentioned the fact that the difference between Canadian Pacific's and Canadian National's rates is quite significant, from one bidder to the next. This aspect bothers the NDP. We would have liked to see the federal government show some leadership on this. Unfortunately, this bill was introduced after five years of dragging their feet, and it was only introduced thanks to the hard work of my colleague from Trinity—Spadina, our transport critic. Fortunately, the NDP is the official opposition and it will hold this government to account.

In my speech I am not going to talk about the national impact or the consequences for big cities. I respect the people of Montreal and Toronto, for whom rail transportation means something different. However, I come from northeastern Quebec and, in the regions, the rail system is mainly used for the transportation of various goods.

Over the past few days, I took the time to find out whether our exporters in Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean are satisfied with the rail service they are receiving. Unfortunately, I came to the same conclusion as the other opposition members: there are many shortcomings.

I even managed to get my hands on a study conducted by the City of Saguenay. It is a few years old, but the conclusion was the same. I will share it with the House. This will bring something different to the debate since it pertains more to the regional reality.

This study has to do with issues around rail freight transport in Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean.

Editor's note: The findings in this report reflect discussions with most major regional users, including those in the pulp and paper, softwood lumber, fibreboard and aluminum industries, as well as smaller users in other industrial sectors. They basically reflect the comments made.

I just named the economic and industrial sectors that are very important in the region. We export a lot of these products. The people watching at home may be wondering what their rail system looks like. I will explain.

Two companies share the Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean railway system: CN and the Compagnie de chemin de fer Roberval-Saguenay or RS, a division of Alcan [or Rio Tinto Alcan]. The CN railway falls under federal jurisdiction and the line ends in Jonquière. The RS railway is a private railway that falls under provincial jurisdiction. The RS railway starts at the Port-Alfred facilities in La Baie and its primary purpose is to provide service to the Alcan plants in the region. As part of a confidential agreement with CN, however, RS provides service to the companies east of Jonquière, including clients from the Chicoutimi and La Baie industrial parks.

The city of Saguenay has two freight transshipment centres: Nolitrex (Jonquière) and Transit PAG (located in La Baie since January 2000), as well as one wood chip transshipment centre (Jonquière). Two other transshipment centres operate in Lac Saint-Jean, in Hébertville (Groupe Goyette) and La Doré.

Northern Quebec Internal Short Line (NQISL)

The NQISL operates the Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean, Chibougamau and Abitibi network for CN. Quebec has 11 short lines and private companies, including RS. Unlike the other short lines, which are independent entities that operate secondary lines for CN, CN has maintained control over the NQISL. The NQISL is a semi-autonomous division of CN, wholly owned by CN. The NQISL has a monopoly in the region and operates the largest rail network in Quebec, with 1,756 km of track, including 422 km in Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean.

NATIONAL FACTORS

Compared with all the rail companies in North America, the railway has adapted poorly to the new realities of transportation, including the just-in-time factor. Transportation times are long, rail cars get lost and the rates are less competitive, compared to the more efficient trucking industry, which has regained a large share of the market.

Following a string of budget cuts at CN at one point in time, rail car maintenance was neglected as was reinvesting in equipment. Today, the industry is faced with an aging fleet of rail cars. Certain types of rail cars, specifically closed cars that are not watertight, are in poor condition. This situation affects a region like ours in particular since the pulp and paper industry is directly impacted. According to our sources, CN is poised to modernize its fleet of pulp and paper rail cars. [I believe the modernization has already been done, since this study was conducted several years ago.] Other less important industrial sectors have been neglected, however, and will likely have to continue making do with outdated or ill-suited equipment.

CN’s operating system appears to be poorly adapted to the size of Canada and the unique characteristics of sub-regions like those in Quebec. CN’s national service centre is located in Winnipeg. Some customers can go to Vancouver for a price and to Winnipeg to request a rail car that will be sent from Edmonton to a transshipment centre in Montreal. From Montreal, the freight can then be shipped to the Saguenay. The transaction can then be billed in Toronto. Each time, a different person is involved in the process. The system is highly complex and rather daunting for the user. Customers can easily encounter many pitfalls. Another issue is the lack of knowledge of the Quebec market, especially a region like the Saguenay, as well as a strong tendency to apply national standards and rates, allowing little room for regional differences and for contact between a customer and a supplier.

Most of the customers who were consulted said that CN was not highly service oriented and took advantage of its monopoly, especially since the large-scale cuts in recent years. Mention was made of unilateral decisions where CN notifies rather than consults with its customers. [This happens regularly.] Another told us: “You want two rail cars and you get 20. When you want 20 rail cars, you get two.” Others spoke of lengthy delays for one thing or another.

REGIONAL FACTORS

In early 2002, the industry was hit with a major rail car shortage that affected all Canadian railway companies. The softwood lumber industry was primarily affected. Manufacturers picked up the pace of shipments to the United States before the American tax was scheduled to take effect. The softwood lumber industry was hopeful that the situation would sort itself out after May 23. Whether or not that happens remains to be seen. [Many years later, we can see that the situation has not improved.] However, even though this situation was exceptional, there had been a long-standing shortage of CN rail cars, except for major clients. In an October 8, 1999, report, Quebec's transport ministry stated the following about the Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean: “...because of the shortage of rail cars, regional transshipment centres may lose customers—indeed, some already have—to transshipment centres in Quebec City where rail cars are easier to obtain.” This situation does not adequately support regional development, nor does it encourage the NQISL to develop regional markets and seek new clients.

The NQISL seems uninterested in small customers, occasional customers and potential customers. Except for major users, most shippers get the sense that CN wants to focus on choice customers—aluminum and pulp and paper—while ignoring smaller customers and sectors. For example, occasional customers can wait weeks to get shipping rates for their goods.

The general consensus is that CN is using its regional monopoly to charge excessively high prices. This could make rail transportation unaffordable for small businesses and could cause larger companies to opt for other means of transportation, such as trucks, which put additional pressure on our roads.

For example, recently, a client got an initial quote of $9,280 to send 10 cars to Calgary. That was lowered to $4,390 following a single phone call to a CN higher-up.

For example, a major regional company got rates from Canadian Pacific out of Quebec City that were so much lower than CN's rates, they almost covered the cost of shipping goods by truck on Route 175 even though CP has a longer route through the Eastern Townships compared to CN's direct line between Quebec City and Montreal.

For an 11-kilometre segment, a major part of Saguenay's industrial base—Chicoutimi and La Baie—is served by a third company, RS, for which this is not a priority. Although RS provides very good service, this results in a prohibitive surcharge for shippers just for those few kilometres. This situation could cause problems in the future for the La Baie sector, which has 75% of the new City of Saguenay's industrial development space as well as major regional marine and air transportation infrastructure.

I would like to provide some other information about my region that may be relevant:

Transportation is a determining factor in the location and development of industry. Transportation is more important in regions such as ours than it is in larger centres. More than anywhere else, we need proper, modern, competitive transportation systems if we want economic growth, particularly given recent unemployment statistics...

The railway is an essential mode of transportation in the region. Trains carry approximately one-third of all goods shipped regionally or inter-regionally, 40% of goods shipped inter-regionally via ground transportation and two-thirds of goods shipped across the continent via ground transportation.

The NQISL is the only rail company that gives the region access to provincial, national and continental markets.

In 1996, the break-even point for an internal short line was 37 cars shipped per kilometre of track per year. In the region, the NQISL is definitely profitable, moving more than 61 cars per kilometre, which translates to more than three million tonnes of goods annually (57% of that being forest products).

I painted a regional picture of the rail transportation system and I would like to quote some local stakeholders, particularly the mayors of Saguenay-Lac-St-Jean municipalities. I will not limit myself to my own riding, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, and I will even venture into the riding of the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, who may not show the other side of the coin, since he will want to protect his government's bill.

I would like to read part of a fairly recent Radio-Canada article from November 16, 2010. In the article, people were complaining about rail service.

The town of Chibougamau and its municipal development agency are calling on the federal government to intervene to improve rail service to Lac-St-Jean.

The preliminary report just released by Transport Canada on railroads in Canada's small communities worries Développement Chibougamau, because the document talks about long-term solutions to improve service across the country, but it says nothing about the infrastructure on the Triquet-Faribault line, which links Chibougamau to Saint-Félicien.

Saint-Félicien is in the municipality of the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

The town of Chibougamau, Développement Chibougamau and Génivar submitted a position paper to the federal government last March denouncing the sorry state of the track, railway cars and service on the Triquet-Faribault line.

The general manager of Développement Chibougamau, Pierre D'Amour, also pointed out that mining exploration is booming in the region. “Our fear is that there will be downsizing and that less profitable rail lines will be shut down,” he said. “For us, that would be a catastrophe.”

Too slow

Chantier Chibougamau ships one-quarter of its production by train, but would like to ship more to improve its environmental record.

The company's communications officer, Frédéric Verreault, explained that, for the time being, it is impossible for them to increase rail shipments because the train travels at 40 km an hour owing to the condition of the tracks.

“A moose racing a train carrying our products would get to Lac-Saint-Jean faster.”

A rail shipment to Toronto takes more than a week; it can get there in 24 hours by truck. According to Frédéric Verreault, the decision about the shipping method is an easy one. “The just-in-time concept is central to our relations with our clients,” Mr. Verreault pointed out.

The Chantier Chibougamau representative would like the federal government to invest just as much in rail service as it does in seaports.

I will quote another newspaper article from one of our regional weeklies:

Last week, we published an item about the Forest Products Association of Canada (FPAC), which was urging the federal government to “act decisively” on the various problems associated with the rail transportation of goods. We have further information this week.

You will remember that, in 2008, the government committed to reviewing poor rail service provided to rural industries by establishing a review panel, which made recommendations.

However, today, the FPAC considers it inappropriate that all measures will be delayed for another three years.

The association pointed out that the government is counting on CN and CP to implement the changes on a voluntary basis and that regulatory measures will not be enacted until after 2013.

Last Friday, La Sentinelle contacted Susan Murray, executive director of public relations for the Forest Products Association of Canada, to find out if the government had responded to FPAC's press release entitled “Forest Industry to Government: Fix Rail Service Now”. She said that the government had not responded.

When contacted by La Sentinelle for comment on the FPAC's press release, the mayor of Chibougamau said she agreed with the association.

She also said that the railway is of the utmost importance for the region's mining and forestry companies, as well as those in James Bay and Matagami.

In her opinion, these companies are stuck because CN has not made any investments in its infrastructure for years.

She also wondered about future projects, namely those that will be implemented in the James Bay sector. “Will CN have the reactive capability to support these projects?” she wondered.

I would now like to mention what the Mayor of Saint-Félicien had to say.

...the Mayor of Saint-Félicien, Gilles Potvin, is also concerned about CN's lack of investment. Mr. Potvin is of the opinion that the Saint-Félicien-Chibougamau line is essential for the Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean region because it provides access to the port of Grande Anse. He said, “It is a key area for the future of the region. We have to be concerned about it.”

For the past few minutes, I have been talking about the state of the railway in Chambord, which is in the Minister of Transport's riding. Here is a newspaper article that was published a year after the two articles I just quoted. It reads:

Train Derails in Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean

CHAMBORD—Three cars derailed on part of the Saint-André line in the Chambord area of Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean late Sunday night/early Monday morning. According to Sûreté du Québec spokesperson Hélène Nepton, Sûreté du Québec was informed of the incident, which was allegedly related to a defective rail, at approximately 2 a.m.

It is disappointing.

In closing, I will let people draw their own conclusions about the fact that another train derailed in Chambord one year later, in 2011, because the track was not being properly maintained even though local stakeholders had asked the federal government to take action, to take responsibility and to invest in the railway.

I am proud to be from the Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean area and, as the member for Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, which is home to part of the CN and RS railway, I am calling for the federal government to take responsibility and finally invest in rail transportation. It is important for the Canadian economy.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I am surprised by the member's comments. Over the last number of years there has not been a government that has invested more money into railways than this government, certainly not in decades.

The reality is that we put $1 billion into VIA Rail for improved tracking and new rolling stock in locomotives, which the member's party voted against. In 2006, we partnered with the government of Quebec to put in place a program to rebuild railway short lines with over $70 million, and the NDP certainly did not support that funding. We partnered with Genesee & Wyoming and the Canadian Pacific Railway to rebuild the Huron Central Railway between Sault Ste. Marie and Sudbury. I worked for some two and a half years to put the funding into that. It was the first time in history that the Province of Ontario had partnered with the federal government toward regenerating and rebuilding railway infrastructure in this country.

This government has demonstrated time and again, whether with Pacific Gateway, Atlantic Gateway or railways in general, that we are committed to improving railways in this country. We are committed to improving railway safety and we demonstrated that with a bill that has already gone through this place. We are dedicated and committed to improving rail service. This member should get on board.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to respond to my Conservative colleague's first point. He welcomes the investment his Conservative government has made in rail transport. However, I remind him that, in 2010, the people in the community, in Chambord, criticized the condition of the rails. That was not just one stakeholder, but rather a lot of people in the community.

I also believe the Conservatives were still in power when a derailment occurred in 2011. The Sûreté du Québec suspected a defect in the rails.

The Conservatives may be proud of the money the government is putting into rail transport, but it is clearly not yielding the desired results. I am not necessarily saying they are incompetent or poor managers of taxpayers' money, but people can draw their own conclusions.

Then my colleague said that the NDP could have voted for or against such and such a bill. The NDP is truly a very reasonable party. For example, this Bill C-52 is adequate. It could be better. It could resolve the disparity in rate-setting by companies that hold a monopoly. However, we are pleased that Bill C-52 is a step in the right direction and we will support it.

As we have previously seen, the Conservatives have introduced some atrocious bills despite their good intentions. I am not ashamed to say that we are opposed to bad Conservative bills. That is why I encourage my colleagues to support the initiatives of my colleague, the transport critic.

[Matthew Kellway, NDP, Beaches—East York, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his great speech. What I found interesting was his argument about how, even in the area where he lives, which is a little more remote than where I live in Toronto, rail infrastructure is critical to the economic development of that area. Earlier today in my speech I talked about how critical rail infrastructure is to a city region such as Toronto, both coordinating economic activity within that region and connecting that region to other economic activity. It seems that rail infrastructure, at least in Canada, has to be seen as a core component of global competitiveness.

Does my hon. colleague agree with that? If he does agree with that, what does he make of a government that sells itself as an economic manager, yet has taken years to actually deal with this problem of freight rail and the unhappiness of customers with the virtual monopoly we have in this country over freight rail services?

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I wanted to keep my feelings about the Conservative government's management of the railway system somewhat ambiguous. However, since my NDP colleague is urging me to state my position, I will simply say this amounts to incompetence.

The government is very cunning and is doing its best to make us believe the Canadian economy is in good shape. However, it cannot be effective with Canadian taxpayers' money by throwing it at the problem. As military procurement critic, my NDP colleague knows perfectly well how poorly the Conservative government is managing the military aircraft procurement files. It is not surprising that the money it throws or sprinkles around in the Canadian railway system, depending on the situation, is being wasted through mismanagement.

My colleague asked me what I thought about the role of the railways in economic growth. My answer to him is that I am proud that, in partnership with the Conservative government, we are going to have railway service in my region that links the railway to the Grand-Anse terminal so that our seaport can open and cargo can be shipped by sea and by train. So this is really a good opportunity for my region to develop its economy.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is 80% of the clients who are not satisfied. It is not just the people in the NDP.

The Conservative member says that they have invested money. I would like to invite him to travel, as a passenger, between Montreal and New York. I do not know where they invested their money, but there is some work that needs to be done here.

There is a reason why 80% of people are not satisfied. As the member said in his excellent speech, a moose would get there quicker. That is what he said.

What would my colleague like to say on this issue? There is quite a bit of discontent.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my NDP colleague is absolutely right. People complain that the train does not go fast enough, at 40 km/h, because the tracks are worn out and poorly maintained. People want to be able to ship their goods. A number of executives and exporters in my riding prefer to ship goods by road, as the railways in our region are poorly maintained, and this results in more pollution.

Moreover, the ever-increasing price of gas does not help the SMEs and the corporations in our ridings, in my riding or my colleague’s, to make a place for themselves and win a share of the domestic and international marketplace.

I am proud that the NDP wants to upgrade Canada’s railway system. I just hope that the Conservatives will be able to deal with any price gouging that might arise from the CN and CP monopoly, but I do not have much hope for such a jaded government.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Mr. Speaker, a lot of the comments that I have heard are simply rhetoric. They are not fact-based at all.

Has the member actually looked into the improvements that have been made by CP and CN in terms of on-time delivery and on-time pickups from shippers right across this country? Has he noted the increase in rail freight traffic in this country in the last five years? Has the member noted any of these things, or is he simply here to spew rhetoric of a partisan nature?

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is a shame that my Conservative colleague cannot see what is right in front of him.

I will repeat what I said in my speech. In 2011, that is, a year and a half ago, there was a train derailment in Chambord because the tracks were poorly maintained and worn out.

Am I to understand that all this money from the federal government was invested in the past six months and that we now have a perfect railway system in Canada? I want the Conservative government to open its eyes. They cannot claim that it was an exception.

The speech by my Conservative colleague cannot be taken seriously. He should go to my riding and to other ridings and see the state of the railway for himself.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Pursuant to Standing Order 38, it is my duty to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Ahuntsic, Aviation Safety; the hon. member for Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, Aboriginal Affairs.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Chambly—Borduas.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to speak to Bill C-52 today. The railway, or shipping by rail, is very important in my riding. As I often say in my speeches in this House, the river divides my riding in two, but the railway also does the same thing. This is not just a legacy; it is also a very important economic asset for us.

To begin, I would like to say a little about my experience since 2011 when I was elected, and even before that time, from what I hear from my constituents and other elected representatives in the region, in particular the mayors, concerning relations with CN and CP. This is very important in connection with the subject we are addressing today.

We need to look at the role these companies are called on to play in our communities and see what a key role the railway has played in the history of Quebec and of Canada. In any history course, even at the university level, we still talk about the railway as a core element of our country's collective history. When we look at it that way, there is a duty to work with the various stakeholders. Today, we are talking about the stakeholders that ship various products, in the farming sector in particular.

In my riding, I am in an odd situation when it comes to this subject. On the south shore, Montérégie is located right in the middle between Montreal and the more urban part of the south shore, but also in a somewhat more agricultural and rural area. Let us not forget that there are also farmers in my riding. I can think of neighbouring ridings, like Shefford or Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, where there are people in the farming community who use the railway. We can really see how much the railway connects those regions to Montreal, and beyond there to other destinations, including Quebec City, Ottawa, or the other end of the country.

When we consider these facts, we feel we must take action to support our farmers, but we also want to protect the communities living alongside the railways. We therefore need CN to work with us. That is why this bill is important. We are talking about agreements with shippers, but this is also an indication of the need to go beyond that and call on CN to co-operate more on other issues. Those issues all involve the same objective: improving and making better use of the infrastructure we have had for over 100 years now.

Getting back to my previous point, when I was talking about the work I had to do with CN, I have to say that it is not always an easy company to work with, quite frankly. I say that with all due respect because good things have been accomplished. I would not want anyone to think otherwise, and I am definitely ready to work with them. However, the fact that we needed a bill to make CN co-operate on one particular issue shows that the company could do with an attitude adjustment and a little more flexibility given that it has a monopoly or a virtual monopoly on rail services in my region and across Canada.

I have seen this problem on two particular files, including the rail electrification one. This AMT proposal would modernize and improve rail services. It would reduce costs for producers using the services and for public transit users. Yes, it would be expensive in the short term, but in the long term, it would provide economic, environmental and other benefits.

We have had to deal with a lot of problems on this file. CN categorically refused without offering any explanations or agreeing to talk about it. This is another very important aspect of the bill before us today even though it is about a different issue with CN.

As for the other file, I heard a comment on the other side of the House about increasing train traffic. That is interesting, because that is exactly the kind of thing we want to see. That obviously means that the economy is doing well, including the local economy.

However, this increase is combined with the phenomenon of urban sprawl, which we are seeing more and more in Montérégie, particularly on the south shore. People are leaving the Island of Montreal to move to the suburbs, including our region. They are building homes around train stations to be able to use public transportation. II am talking about commuter trains. So these homes are seeing an increase in vibrations.

My riding office in Saint-Basile-le-Grand is in an old train station. It is no longer in use, but, obviously, since it is an old train station, we are close to the tracks and we feel the vibrations. It is not a big deal to us. It does not happen too often when employees work from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. or 6 p.m., for example. However, I think everyone can agree that it can be more difficult for someone who lives close by.

Speaking about the importance of the railway calls to mind some comments made by one of the mayors in my riding. Gilles Plante, the mayor of MacMasterville, told me as well as CN officials that while he did not want to hinder CN’s work or impede rail traffic, he did hope that a happy medium could be found.

Co-operation with CN on this front is necessary, but not always easy to get. We are still waiting for answers to requests made by citizens regarding rail traffic.

There is a reason why I bring this up and relate these stories of issues that I have been focusing on since being elected to represent my riding. As I have said before, the aim of the bill is to compel CN to negotiate agreements with shippers to prevent the company from unfairly benefiting from the monopoly it holds over our producers, in particular farmers.

If I might digress for a moment, I would especially like to congratulate the member for Trinity—Spadina for her work, for the bill she introduced, which made the minister realize that the time had come to act on this issue.

This bill is seen as a step in the right direction. However, hard work is needed to sustain this momentum. I am hearing from the farmers in my region and I know that some colleagues represent ridings where farming is even more prevalent. The message is always the same when the topic of public transportation or the railway system comes up. They acknowledge that this is a very important industry, one that needs to be modernized.

We lag far behind Europe in this area. Of course I am not saying that everything is wrong. I am sure that a government member is prepared to rise and say that everything is going well. I am not saying that things are going badly, but simply because things are not going badly does not mean that things cannot be greatly improved. This is true of the railway system. Things are going very well back home. People benefit from the service, but much more could be done. If improvements were made to the rail infrastructure, the costs in the short term would be great, but in the long term, as I said, users and shippers could enjoy lower prices.

As far as urban sprawl is concerned, as I said earlier, this is a positive phenomenon. It means that people are settling in our region, that the population is increasing, that more families are moving into the area and that our local economy is thriving. These are things that I am very proud of and very pleased to see. Mainly it drives many of the issues I champion in the House and in my work as a member of Parliament.

However, that makes life tough for farmers because municipal elected officials, regional conferences of elected officials, RCMs, members of the National Assembly and so on all wind up facing the same challenges: finding a way to promote urban sprawl and growth back home, but also ensuring that our farmers still have an environment conducive to their production.

There are a lot of local products in the Richelieu valley, where my constituency is located, and they are the pride of our region. Tourisme Montérégie has done a lot of work, and even in the surrounding areas, in Rougemont near Marieville in my riding or elsewhere, local products are of outstanding quality. People attending the Chambly Bières et Saveurs festival in the summer can enjoy beer—it is very good—as well as superior-quality food products. We want to continue producing those products. They are healthful and good for the economy, and they are also good for our heritage, even though that may seem like a cliché. That, in a way, is our physical and environmental heritage.

The work we are doing with CN is extremely important: we are looking for a way to juggle the reality of modernization with that of agricultural tradition, which is very important in my riding. That is why I am very pleased to support this bill at second reading. It is a step in the right direction, as a number of my colleagues and I have said.

However, I believe that the committee work will be very important, and the work to be done over the next few months and years even more so. As I emphasized earlier, we have to prod CN on other issues as well. We have to demand even more from those people and from all stakeholders involved in railway issues, who will show us the way because we find it hard to move CN on these issues.

I would like to go back to the vibrations issue. This is fundamentally important for this bill because, once again, we are talking about shippers. Freight trains are increasingly long and that is very good. However, we wonder, and we have also put the question to CN, how it is possible to reconcile these two realities. My office is located beside the railway, and I also live near it. Sometimes drivers want to cross the tracks, and it is nearly rush hour and along comes a train transporting freight from elsewhere in Canada. Then they realize that the train is nearly 200 cars long. Sometimes people wait a long time at the stoplight. We realize that some work still has to be done to reconcile this urbanization reality with the fact that these trains have to pass through.

I am not saying that this is not important. I am referring to the situation facing my colleague, the mayor of McMasterville. We want to keep this in our municipalities. We do not want to tear up the railway. It is part of our heritage and we know how much it benefits our communities. No one would ever say otherwise. However, I think we need to do some work on it. This bill urges CN to do something for farmers. We could also urge it to do more for Canadians in the regions.

The railway is such an important part of our heritage. I recall a Knights of Columbus dinner that was held in November. One of the members, Gilbert Desrosiers, who is very well known in my riding, received a painting done by a local artist whose name escapes me at the moment unfortunately. It was a picture of what we, back home, call the black bridge. There is a large CN logo on the bridge. It is hard to miss. Whether you are on the Richelieu highway, on the shore or in a boat on the Richelieu River, you can see this railway bridge. It is practically an institution in our riding. It is part of our heritage.

I say that half-jokingly, but I am also serious. It illustrates people's sense of belonging. We want to make this infrastructure work in our region because we know what a remarkable asset it is.

I know that I am revisiting issues that I have already raised. However, since I have the time, I will again address the issue of the electrification of the rail line. It is very important, and CN’s attitude to this issue poses a problem.

I often have conversations with my colleagues, who are ministers and members of the National Assembly. We all more or less have the same vision as far as objectives for public transportation are concerned. A common vision in the region is a good thing, and helps steer progress.

On the other hand, it is understandable that the AMT has projects and that CN is a source of friction. Indeed, they have differing interests and their situations are not the same. Yet, what has been most disturbing in this issue is the lack of dialogue. When this decision was made, the AMT did not seem to know why; CN simply said that it was too expensive, that that was that, and that it was no longer in the cards.

Had the original developers of the railway, both in Quebec and elsewhere in Canada, said that building the railway was too expensive, little progress would have been made. That is precisely the kind of mentality that CN and CP need to do away with. We do not deal with CN and CP as much back home, but these companies still have a role to play, and some of my colleagues do deal with them. That kind of mentality cannot be allowed. We know that it is expensive. We know that it is an investment. I believe that, in the long term, it is going to help reduce costs and promote the kind of environment that is so important for our farmers.

For example, the closer one gets to the Cities of Richelieu and Chambly—which are in my riding and are adjacent to the municipality of Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, in the riding of Saint-Jean—the more railways there are. However, they are mostly outdated and no longer in use. The municipality would really like to use this infrastructure and space. However, CP is dragging its feet, at least I believe that it is CP that is doing so.

All of this to say that when a municipality wants to use infrastructure and cannot do so, it is extremely problematic. When municipalities ask for answers, there needs to be an immediate dialogue. CN and CP have everything to gain by engaging in such a dialogue. It can only help them to do their job.

A CN representative, who I will not name out of respect, told me that if Canadians were to communicate directly with CN and tell them about their problems, CN would be in a better position to respond. However, that might not be so easy since these issues are localized. That is no secret. Residents in the region communicate with their elected representatives. Residents with those kinds of concerns call their mayor, municipal councillor or member of Parliament.

When citizens call elected officials and the elected officials contact CN, I think that this corporation should understand that it is time for action. The fact that it does not come directly from a citizen is no excuse not to act. We are very ready to act.

I appear to be very critical toward CN and CP, but it bears repeating. We understand they have had great success and that they are still successful. However, in certain respects, they must be more open and engage in more dialogue.

This is why I am pleased that this bill was introduced. The government has decided that these corporations must speak and work with people. There are certain standards to be met.

If this is representative of things to come in terms of the railway, in my riding in particular, then I will be quite pleased to continue supporting them and engaging in a dialogue with them.