The House is on summer break, scheduled to return Sept. 15

Evidence of meeting #2 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was see.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Kai Eide  United Nations Special Representative for Afghanistan

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Pierre Lemieux

We will begin the meeting.

Mr. Eide, as the president of the Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan, I'd like to say it's an honour to have you here in Canada and to have you here in front of our committee. In fact you're our first witness, so this is very good.

For the benefit of the viewing audience, Mr. Eide is the special representative for Afghanistan and the head of the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan. Mr. Eide received that post on March 10.

I congratulate you on these great responsibilities and on your experience and your credibility, because of which you have earned these appointments. Congratulations.

I'll also just take a moment to acknowledge, again for our viewing audience, that our previous Canadian ambassador to Afghanistan, Chris Alexander, is of course the deputy special representative who works very closely with Mr. Eide. So we, as Canadians, certainly have a role to play.

Our time is limited, Mr. Eide, so I'll ask you to make an opening presentation and then we will do one round of approximately six to seven minutes each, in order to be able to ask questions of you.

On that note, sir, I would ask you to please commence your presentation.

Kai Eide United Nations Special Representative for Afghanistan

Thank you very much, sir, and thank you for the privilege of being able to be here.

As you said, I'm very pleased to be able to work with Chris Alexander, who is an outstanding diplomat, and also with your ambassador in Kabul. We work very closely with them and also with your mission at the United Nations. We will see them tomorrow.

As you said, I in fact took my duties up on March 28, and I've been travelling for two weeks, so my experience on the ground is, as you understand, limited, but I've been there many times in my former capacities as NATO ambassador and also as political director of our ministry.

If I may, I'll say a few words about what I see as being the immediate challenges.

We had the Bucharest meeting in April. That was a great success. I think the Afghan president came back with a strong commitment from the international community, and we have also seen that there's been an increase in troop levels, which is important. It's important to ISAF; it's important to you and to all of us.

There will be a conference in Paris on June 12, which will concentrate on other aspects of our entire efforts in Afghanistan. That means, in particular, the development aspects and also on some political topics. At that juncture, the Afghans will be able to present what is called the Afghan national development strategy, which is a strategy that covers the next five years and lays out what they see as the basis for their work and our work over that period. It's a very important document and it deserves our full support and commitment when we come to Paris in June.

In addition to that document, we'll also review the so-called Afghanistan Compact, which was agreed in London on February 1. There's no doubt that when we review that document we can see that very significant progress has been made in some aspects, and we all know them: within education, within health, with the Afghan National Army, and also some other areas.

At the same time, there are shortfalls. What are the major shortfalls? I think within the police and justice system, certainly, and within governance you will find—to my mind—the most important areas where we need to make progress fast. I think we're making some progress on the police, on the justice system, and on the governance issue. We still need to make a lot of effort.

Why I'd like to highlight those particular issues is because we put a lot of effort into security, and you, Canada, certainly do, and we all appreciate your tremendous effort in that respect. You put an effort, and the national community puts another effort into the development side, and we're making progress. You also contribute generously.

But for what we do on the security side and on the development side--in order to enable us to make that sustainable--we will have to have a state administration in place, a set of law enforcements and institutions, ministries, sub-national governance, etc., which will enable us to allow the Afghans to increasingly take that over in the years to come. It is extremely important--from my point of view--to put extra emphasis on areas having to do with governance and law enforcement.

In addition to that, we also have to look at the economy, and see how we can stimulate economic growth, because what we have to seek is of course that not only is there this pillar, this basis underneath our institutions, but also see to it that the economy grows. There was, of course, a growth of about 13% last year, 8% this year, but that is from a very, very small base, and we also know that much of this stems from the fact that international aid is flowing in the way it is.

We need to stimulate the Afghan economy. I believe that the basis of this is agriculture. Afghanistan will remain an agricultural society for a long, long time to come, and we have to see to it that that sector can expand. That means investing in the modernization of their agriculture, reforming agriculture, and also putting in place the infrastructure required to enable that to happen. That means that irrigation projects are of critical importance.

These are some areas that I believe are priorities in the years to come:

Let me mention that in Paris I hope we will all commit ourselves to ensuring that the right resources are there. I would certainly like to see countries that do not donate so much today becoming more generously involved on the financial side.

Second is aid effectiveness. We do not spend our resources as effectively as we should, and we are all aware of it. There was a report that came out only a few weeks ago from a group of NGOs. We may question some of the figures in that report, but the basic arguments are right. We have to take them seriously and try to address them.

May I again say that the way you in Canada spend your resources is a way that I would see as an example for many other countries. You use channels that give the Afghans as much ownership as they can possibly absorb at the moment. We have to continue in that direction, because building Afghan capacity is the only way to move forward. That is, the right amount of money, the right aid effectiveness, and coordination.

Today we have a situation where a fragmented international community that is strong meets a fragmented Afghan administration that is weak. This is not the way we can proceed. Therefore, one of my most important tasks, according to the new mandate, is to ensure better international cooperation and coordination. That is hard, because we've spoken about coordination for quite a long time, but what I sense now is more of a readiness to be coordinated. When I travel, I always say to my interlocutors that coordination means being ready to be coordinated, and readiness to be coordinated means asking yourself what you can do differently from what you've done in the past. That is the question I want everybody to ask themselves.

I do perceive a greater readiness today among major donors to do precisely that, and I look forward to seeing if that will lead us somewhere with regard to spending our resources better.

Let me finally mention two or three other topics that I believe would have to be at the top of our agenda as we move forward.

One issue is certainly elections. There will be elections in September 2009, presidential and provincial elections, and then we have parliamentary elections in 2010. We had successful elections in 2004 and 2005. The international community and the Afghan people must be able to see that in 2009 and 2010 we are able to conduct equally successful elections. If we are not, you as politicians understand the impact that may have both inside Afghanistan and in the international community. So elections are important.

The regional dimension—we all know that a stable Afghanistan is important to a stable region. So the regions I mention are also put on my agenda as one of the priority areas. We intend to go both to Islamabad and Tehran over the next few weeks in order to start conducting such a dialogue with these two countries and with other countries in the region.

Finally, one issue that I see today mentioned in the Globe and Mail is the reconciliation effort. I have always said that, yes, we need military forces there, and only NATO and ISAF can provide that kind of framework in the foreseeable future. But it is important to underline that the solution to Afghanistan's problem is not a military solution; it is a political solution. Therefore, we have to give the political aspects of what we're doing greater prominence. Reconciliation certainly will be one of those elements, but I would like to underscore two or three things that are important here.

First, a reconciliation process, when it comes about, must be a process led by the Afghan government with the support of the international community. It must be coordinated and led by the Afghan government.

Second, it must be a political process, not a security process or intelligence process.

Third, it must be based on the Afghanistan Constitution and on what we have achieved over the last few years. And the achievements are important. Look at education. Look at how girls can take part in society in a different way from what they did before. There are about 300 newspapers and periodicals in Afghanistan, 14 television stations, and so on. That's dramatically different from what we had before. Those achievements have to be protected and preserved. No political process should take place at the cost of these achievements.

Finally, it must be a process that is conducted on the basis of strength and not as a replacement for our military operations.

Mr. Chair, I think that concludes my introductory remarks.

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Pierre Lemieux

I thank you very much for your introductory remarks, Mr. Eide.

What I would like to do now is offer the opportunity to our parliamentarians to pose questions to you

I will start with the Liberal Party and Mr. Rae. It will be a five-minute round, Mr. Rae.

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Eide.

I want to just come back to you on this. I am sorry I can't go through the niceties, but we have a very short period of time, so I'm just going to get right at the questions.

1:40 p.m.

United Nations Special Representative for Afghanistan

Kai Eide

I'm Norwegian and I'm used to being brief.

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

We have great respect for your country and for your leadership. I worked with many of your leaders in Sri Lanka for many years, so I'm glad to be in your presence.

1:40 p.m.

United Nations Special Representative for Afghanistan

Kai Eide

Thank you, sir.

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

I want to come back to the last point you made, because it is obviously a subject of great concern to us. You referred to reconciliation within the Constitution. I guess that is a very direct question. I know it is a sensitive subject, and the international community can't talk about the Afghanistan Constitution, but I take it that any discussion would include the possibility of changes in governance.

1:40 p.m.

United Nations Special Representative for Afghanistan

Kai Eide

I do not want to comment on how the process of reconciliation should move forward and what the outcome could be politically. That is up to the Afghan government to decide. We would discuss it with them and support them. But I think it's premature to comment on specifics related to that process.

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

What would your comment be about the fact that troops on the ground, it would appear, from reports today and earlier—the Dutch troops and the Canadian and British troops—are engaging in tactical discussions with the Taliban?

1:40 p.m.

United Nations Special Representative for Afghanistan

Kai Eide

I think, in general, both on the military and civilian sides, that outreach efforts being conducted are quite in order. This is something we should do. We should reach out to the communities in which we are engaged. But when it comes to a wider reconciliation process, I would say that it is tremendously important that it is owned by the Afghans and is well coordinated so that we do not go in many different directions.

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

What about cross-border discussions with the loya jirga? There is some reference to reactivating that process between Pakistan and Afghanistan among the Pashtun leadership. Do you see an opportunity for that?

1:45 p.m.

United Nations Special Representative for Afghanistan

Kai Eide

I think that was a very promising process when it started last summer. It is our view that if we can revive and strengthen that kind of process, it would be to the benefit of the entire region.

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Mr. Chair, Mr. Wilfert has a question.

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for coming.

On the issue of capacity-building at the village level, I would suggest that it is critical to ensuring the successful development and empowerment of the Afghan people. I realize that it's early, but do you see an opportunity where there would be the political will and a better coordination of dollars, where the government currently is not spending at least 45% of the aid money that's gone to them to ensure that the roots of governance at the village level take place?

1:45 p.m.

United Nations Special Representative for Afghanistan

Kai Eide

I think what we see from the Afghan government now is rather encouraging. As you will know, the President of Afghanistan just established something called an independent directorate for local government. What the leader of that directorate is trying to do is look at leadership at the provincial level, the district level, and below that to try to improve the competence of the leadership at these various levels and tie them to local structures on the ground.

I think that's the only way to go. And that effort has been appreciated by the entire international community.

I will add that I believe it is important that the governance issue be addressed not only at the provincial, district, and local levels but also vigorously addressed at the central level. This is, of course, an item we discuss regularly with the Afghan authorities.

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

There's some reference in the Secretary General's report to the possibility of having the elections brought together in either 2009 or 2010. Are you aware of any of those discussions, or of where that stands now? Is it possible that we'll have just one election in either 2009 or 2010?

1:45 p.m.

United Nations Special Representative for Afghanistan

Kai Eide

That discussion has not been concluded. We will have, as I said, elections at the presidential and provincial levels in 2009, and the other elections in 2010. That is a consensus decision that the Afghan leadership has reached, and I think it's very important that they reached that decision, that they came to that conclusion. This is their common view at the moment, and on that basis the decisions have been made.

It will mean, of course, that both they and the international community will face challenges with regard to the organization and the funding of those elections. However, I think that's the price we have to pay in order to see to it that the democratic processes in Afghanistan are brought forward and solidified.

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

I'm sure the government will want to lend the services of Elections Canada for that purpose, so we look forward to that.

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Pierre Lemieux

Thanks very much, Mr. Rae.

Madame Barbot.

Vivian Barbot Bloc Papineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good day, Mr. Eide.

You talked about activities that were productive, such as education. You also said that health conditions were improving. However, you did not say anything about corruption.

To what extent is corruption impeding good governance and major progress? What do we need to do? What steps do we need to take, in your opinion, to put an end to corruption?

1:45 p.m.

United Nations Special Representative for Afghanistan

Kai Eide

Corruption is a very important consideration. It is an issue that frequently comes up in our discussions with the Afghan government and the Afghan president.

At a time when we are trying to mobilize resources and improve the way they are used, it is important to show the Afghan people that resource utilization implies some measure of accountability. In the course of our discussions last week, I sensed that the Afghans also demonstrated the will to implement mechanisms to help us help them achieve better results.

Vivian Barbot Bloc Papineau, QC

Can you give us some examples of organizations?

1:45 p.m.

United Nations Special Representative for Afghanistan

Kai Eide

I think I should switch to English.

Vivian Barbot Bloc Papineau, QC

You're doing well in French.