The House is on summer break, scheduled to return Sept. 15

Evidence of meeting #23 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afghanistan.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Françoise Ducros  Vice-President, Afghanistan-Pakistan Task Force, Canadian International Development Agency
Melanie Boyd  Director, Planning, Afghanistan-Pakistan Task Force, Canadian International Development Agency
James Melanson  Director General, Afghanistan-Pakistan Task Force, Canadian International Development Agency

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz

I'd like to bring this meeting to order.

This is meeting number 23 of the Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan. Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, March 3, 2010, we're continuing our study on the Canadian mission in Afghanistan.

Today we would like to welcome as witnesses the Canadian International Development Agency, known as CIDA, with Françoise Ducros, vice-president, James Melanson, director general, and Melanie Boyd, director.

We appreciate you being able to come in at such short notice.

I just want to remind the committee that we agreed last week that the aim of this committee is to preview CIDA activity in Afghanistan after July 2011, in part to identify opportunities for other Canadian non-military expertise. It would be helpful, we felt, to review the full range of CIDA activity in Afghanistan, explore what CIDA intends to do after July 2011, and then identify gaps or niches into which other Canadian non-military expertise might be deployed.

I'm sure we may range beyond that, but for those who were unable to attend our meeting last week, this is the general direction that we would like to follow.

The usual practice is to allow for an opening statement from our witnesses. Any time you're ready, you may go ahead. Welcome again.

Françoise Ducros Vice-President, Afghanistan-Pakistan Task Force, Canadian International Development Agency

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm glad to be here to provide information on CIDA's future programming in Afghanistan. I'd like to first contextualize our future programming within the previous development successes in Kandahar and within the context of CIDA's aid effectiveness agenda.

CIDA has a long history of engagement in Afghanistan. Before the fall of the Taliban in 2001, CIDA's assistance to Afghanistan consisted largely of humanitarian aid, and ranged between $10 and $20 million per year for basic human needs.

Following the International Conference on Reconstruction Assistance to Afghanistan, held in January 2002 in Tokyo, Canada responded to the Government of Afghanistan'S appeal for long- term development investments by significantly bolstering our commitment to the country. Canada is now one of the world's top donors to Afghanistan, our largest-ever bilateral aid recipient.

Recently we've implemented the recommendations of the Honourable John Manley and the independent panel on Canada's future role in Afghanistan. We've progressed with our allies and development partners in securing a better future for the people of Kandahar, and we continue to work with them and the Government of Afghanistan toward common goals.

CIDA has been responsible for delivering on the three signature projects and Canada's six priorities in Afghanistan: strengthening Afghanistan institutional capacity to deliver basic services and promote economic growth; providing humanitarian assistance to extremely vulnerable people; and advancing Afghanistan's capacity for democratic governance.

The three signature projects have also been prominent among CIDA's activities since 2008 in Afghanistan.

In the first signature project, Canada is supporting the rehabilitation of the Dahla Dam and its irrigation and canal system, generating jobs and fostering agriculture. In our second signature project, we are involved in the construction of 50 schools in Kandahar. Through the third signature project, Canada is expanding support for polio immunization.

As we progress in our efforts, Canadian contributions are significantly benefiting the people of Kandahar. Our future programming in Afghanistan is intoned by these successes and reflects Canadian expertise and experience.

On November 16 the government announced four key areas of focus for Canada's post-2011 engagement in Afghanistan. The first is investing in the future of Afghan children and youth through development programming in education and health, especially for women and girls. The second is advancing security, the rule of law, and human rights, including through the provision of up to 950 trainers for the Afghan security forces. The third is promoting regional diplomacy. The fourth is helping to deliver humanitarian assistance.

Of these four areas, CIDA will be responsible for delivering programming in education, maternal, newborn and child health (MNCH), humanitarian assistance and, jointly with the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, on human rights. CIDA's program will be based out of Kabul and will be national in scope.

Our programming priorities have been developed in consultation with the Government of Afghanistan, with Canadian and Afghan civil society, and with partner multilateral organizations. Canada's programming is aligned with the priorization and implementation plan of the Afghan national development strategy, known as the ANDS, and directly reflects Afghan needs and priorities.

Since the London and Kabul conferences held last year, the Government of Afghanistan has established thematic clusters and national priority programs that have allowed the international community to focus its efforts on a targeted set of reconstruction and development priorities. Canada will continue to look for opportunities to support the development of the clusters and national priority programs, which are essential to enhancing the Government of Afghanistan's capacity, accountability, and ownership.

Before I get into the specifics of our areas of focus, I would like to emphasize that our future programming is also framed within CIDA's aid effectiveness agenda.

The Government of Canada has committed to making Canada's international assistance more efficient, focused, and accountable. Toward that end, CIDA has undertaken specific steps to make its work more effective in line with international agreements and recognized best practices.

As part of this strategy, the agency is focusing its efforts geographically and thematically. CIDA now has 20 countries of focus and three priority themes: increasing food security, securing the future of children and youth, and stimulating sustainable economic growth. In line with internationally endorsed principles, we are supporting efforts that demonstrate local country ownership and leadership of development policies and strategies, based on locally identified needs and priorities. Finally, we are committed to efficiency and accountability, including communicating clearly and openly with Canadian partners. As Afghanistan is one of the agency's 20 countries of focus, programming there between 2011 and 2014 will reflect these and other key aid effectiveness principles.

I am going to confine myself to the broad themes, beginning with education. Turning to our work in Afghanistan, we have had considerable experience and success in the education sector. Working with the Afghan Ministry of Education through the education quality improvement program, which I'll call EQUIP from now on, CIDA has supported the construction and rehabilitation of more than 800 schools across the country and funded the training of more than 110,000 teachers and principals. We have also supported the establishment of more than 4,000 community-based schools throughout the country, which have provided basic education to more than 125,000 hard-to-reach children, of whom approximately 80% are girls.

Building on this experience, we anticipate that we'll continue to support enhancements to formal education through government programs and non-formal community-based education in order to increase access to education for girls. In respect of quality education, we are considering ways to improve primary instruction by supporting pre-service training, particularly to women teachers, and to standardize teacher certification and accreditation.

Finally, in order to enhance participation and Afghan ownership in education, we are considering approaches to increasing community participation, as evidence shows that strengthening community participation increases public sector accountability at local, regional, and national levels. We will also look for opportunities to promote meaningful ministry reforms that enhance the quality of education governance.

Moving to health, Afghanistan has been identified as one of 10 countries to be included in the roll-out of Canada's G-8 initiative on maternal, newborn, and child health. As in the education sector, our future plans in the health sector build on significant experience and successes to date. One of our signature projects, our support for polio eradication, is particularly well known. Through that signature project, Canada has supported the ongoing vaccination of an estimated 7.2 million Afghan children, an effort that has reduced the number of new cases to just 25 in 2010 as compared to 31 cases in 2009. Over time, the polio signature project has also been used as a platform for the delivery of other essential health services for children under five, including micronutrient supplementation and deworming treatments.

We will also draw on our experience in providing services to mothers and young children in Kandahar, using this experience to inform our work at the national level. For example, in Kandahar, we supported the establishment of a maternal waiting home, a model that has encouraged women and young children, many of whom had never seen the inside of a hospital, to access life-saving secondary and tertiary care.

Moving forward, Canada will continue to be a leading donor in polio eradication and will focus its efforts in supporting the delivery of maternal and newborn child health services to underserved areas of the country at a more national scale. Targeted at the neediest and most vulnerable mothers and children, CIDA's health programs will attempt to address major issues at all levels of the health care system from the community to the hospital.

To enhance the quality of health services, our program will support Afghan-led efforts that improve the health and nutritional status of mothers, newborns and children under the age of five. In keeping with the G8 Muskoka Initiative, Canadian assistance will help strengthen the national health system, improve nutrition, and reduce the burden of diseases and illnesses in Afghanistan.

I will now address the issue of humanitarian assistance. As one of the world's poorest countries, Afghanistan remains vulnerable to natural and man-made disasters. Humanitarian assistance is therefore another area where needs remain stark. Nearly one-third of Afghans are chronically or seasonally food insecure due to conflict, natural disaster, weak income and employment opportunities, as well as inefficient agricultural practices.

To reduce this vulnerability, CIDA will continue to assist the Government of Afghanistan in responding to natural and man-made crises with food and non-food aid.

Canada has been one of the top donors to humanitarian efforts in Afghanistan. We have provided significant support to meet the needs of vulnerable populations, including refugees, returnees, and internally displaced persons. One of our most effective strategies has been to support the stockpiling of pre-positioned non-food items to promote timely and effective responses to emergencies. These stockpiles have been released to respond to localized emergencies in Kandahar and across Afghanistan, most recently in response to the flooding that affected Pakistan and many of the provinces of Afghanistan.

To enhance the quality of our assistance, we'll be looking for innovative and aid-effective approaches that bridge gaps between emergency relief and sustainable development, while we integrate gender perspectives into our humanitarian interventions. For example, experience in other countries in the region has pointed to the importance of considering such issues as the design of camps, how and to whom supplies are provisioned, the importance of providing sexual and reproductive health services as part of the humanitarian response, and violence prevention. As part of our effort to move from emergency relief to sustainable development, we'll be looking for opportunities to support preventative measures that assist local officials who respond to predictable or recurrent emergencies.

On the human rights front, CIDA, in consultation with the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, is specifically looking to promote women's rights by addressing barriers that prevent women and girls from accessing services such as health and education.

We are also looking at options to continue our work to enhance the ability of human rights institutions to educate and empower citizens regarding their rights and to monitor, document and investigate abuses.

Finally, building on our past success in supporting women's participation in elections, we are looking to support initiatives that increase the role of women in decision-making bodies.

Agency-wide, governance, gender equality and the environment are important cross-cutting themes that contribute to enabling and sustaining our results.

No success has been as transformative as the increased numbers of girls attending school in Afghanistan. Study after study has demonstrated how critical investments that help reduce gender inequality are helping to alleviate persistent poverty. Going forward, as our minister outlined on November 16, we will be placing a particular focus on women in all of our programming.

While significant progress has been achieved by the Government of Afghanistan and the international community in improving the situation and rights of Afghan women and girls, gender inequalities remain significant. Pervasive gender-based violence and human rights abuses continue, ranging from forced underage marriage, honour killings, trafficking, domestic violence and abuse.

Insecurity and lack of basic services also temper many of the gains made. Indicators pertaining to women's health, education, poverty and rights remain among the lowest in the world. CIDA will therefore work with the Government of Afghanistan and civil society to ensure that progress towards gender equality continues by enhancing the quality of, and access to, education and health services, as well as humanitarian assistance.

Finally, in all of our work, we're placing an emphasis on promoting accountability and responsible stewardship. This includes improving the Afghan government's capacity to manage public finance and execute projects. It also includes emphasizing participation and transparency in decision-making processes.

Our work in Afghanistan has delivered impressive results since 2003, but a continued investment is necessary to help Afghans rebuild their country.

I'm glad to take any questions. You have me here for a long, long time.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz

Thank you, Ms. Ducros.

I'm sure there will be plenty of questions.

As is our usual practice, we'll begin with the official opposition, the Liberal Party. Mr. Wilfert, you may go ahead.

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I hope, Ms. Ducros, that it doesn't seem like a long time.

First, I'll just follow up on something I raised with you at our last meeting, and that was on the issue of robust mechanisms dealing with internal and external audits. If I recall correctly, you were going to follow up with some information to the committee, but I don't remember receiving it.

3:45 p.m.

Vice-President, Afghanistan-Pakistan Task Force, Canadian International Development Agency

Françoise Ducros

I think it was forwarded. We certainly forwarded something to the committee. Oh, sorry, it had to go through PCO. I'll follow up again.

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

I was going to say, because I was looking for it. Okay, so the road for that information is PCO. So you'll let us know?

3:45 p.m.

Vice-President, Afghanistan-Pakistan Task Force, Canadian International Development Agency

Françoise Ducros

Sorry. I will let you know. We'll follow up. It was coordinated through—

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Vice-President, Afghanistan-Pakistan Task Force, Canadian International Development Agency

Françoise Ducros

Thank you. I apologize.

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

In listening to your presentation, obviously I'm very interested in specific objectives, and you talk about this aid effectiveness agenda. One of the elements in the Afghan national development strategy is on the issue of governance, rule of law, etc. I am of the view that CIDA is far too spread out. I would rather focus on one key element in this national strategy. My own is, of course, the issue of human rights, rule of law, governance, capacity building.

The report indicated that, yes, other than the signature projects, which are supposed to be on time, we're going to deal with really a well-focused aid effectiveness agenda. Given all the things you presented, how is that going to be a clear focus? Why don't we, in concert with the Afghan government and our other partners in Afghanistan, do one thing and do it really well, and then have the ability to measure those projects in a way that will have helped develop the capacity of the Afghans to govern themselves?

3:45 p.m.

Vice-President, Afghanistan-Pakistan Task Force, Canadian International Development Agency

Françoise Ducros

Thank you for your question.

We could not agree more at CIDA that the issue around aid effectiveness is both focusing and accountability. We will be focusing on three themes that were outlined by the minister on November 16. Given the fact that the CIDA focus will be on children and youth, we will be focusing on basic primary education, where we've been a leader in the field, and access for women and girls to that education; ongoing efforts in humanitarian assistance; and maternal and newborn child health, which was part of the Muskoka initiative. We are developing that programming, and it will be focused primarily on those initiatives.

On the issue of governance and human rights, we certainly are going to continue to work on human rights. It will be a foreign policy lead, so it will be led by DFAIT, but CIDA will continue to build on the work it has been doing on human rights, basically through the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission and other such initiatives.

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Is it fair to say we have roughly 120 Canadian personnel on the ground in Afghanistan? I don't know how many Afghans we have at the present time. My question is, in terms of redeployment, what that will entail. What is the specific budget you're looking for? How, again, are you going to be looking at how effective you are, in terms of the benchmarks you're setting and the ability to measure them?

3:50 p.m.

Vice-President, Afghanistan-Pakistan Task Force, Canadian International Development Agency

Françoise Ducros

Thank you for your question.

I think the number of Canadians on the ground on last count—I can't speak to all of the Canadians on the ground—was about 128. With regard to actual CIDA personnel, we have 26 people on the ground, of whom 17 have been posted in Kandahar. Upon force withdrawal, those people will be redeployed to Kabul or to Canada.

With regard to accountability mechanisms, in all of the programming we put together we have what we call a log frame—a logical framework for moving on—of ongoing results that are set out from the beginning of the program and would be measured. Some of the programming we do in Afghanistan is done through mechanisms to address all of the issues around potential corruption, so we work in some instances through the world banks. Some of our major education initiatives are done through those mechanisms, but even in those instances we work at the very beginning to establish which results have to be achieved.

In the context of past programming, that was established through the benchmarks. We've learned a lot from that, in how best to measure. Some of those things will be refined as we move forward, but there's no suggestion that we wouldn't continue to have indicators and results that are measurable.

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Since I'm a visual learner, are we able to get that? I'd like to see that information to see what it is that you've set out, what measurements you're using, how you are deciding what is the most effective course of action, and the kinds of dollars that are going in.

In terms of personnel, you said redeployment either into Kandahar or back to Canada, so the suggestion is that it would be purely Kandahar or...?

3:50 p.m.

Vice-President, Afghanistan-Pakistan Task Force, Canadian International Development Agency

Françoise Ducros

Sorry--it would be Kabul.

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

I'm sorry. It's not Kandahar; it's Kabul as the focus.

3:50 p.m.

Vice-President, Afghanistan-Pakistan Task Force, Canadian International Development Agency

Françoise Ducros

No, I think that.... Sorry, but I don't exactly understand your question.

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Would the personnel be redeployed only to Kabul?

3:50 p.m.

Vice-President, Afghanistan-Pakistan Task Force, Canadian International Development Agency

Françoise Ducros

CIDA employees working on the Afghanistan program will be working out of Kabul or out of Canada, yes.

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Out of Kabul?

3:50 p.m.

Vice-President, Afghanistan-Pakistan Task Force, Canadian International Development Agency

Françoise Ducros

They will basically be based at the Canadian embassy in the way they are with other countries--

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Okay.

3:50 p.m.

Vice-President, Afghanistan-Pakistan Task Force, Canadian International Development Agency

Françoise Ducros

--which doesn't mean that they can't continue to work around the country from Kabul, which they've done in other countries.

On the issue of getting back to you with regard to visual frameworks, we are developing this program now. The announcement was made on November 16. We go through a consultation process following the established priorities. We meet with the Afghan officials. We meet with civil society in Afghanistan. We've had a scoping mission and we have begun that work. We meet also with an Afghan reference group, which is basically the Canadian partners, some of whom work with us and others who work in Afghanistan, and that meeting took place in late January.

The program is currently being developed. Those results to be achieved and measures to be used are developed in conjunction with how we develop the program in consultation with those partners, so we are not at the point now of listing the results because the programming is still being developed. Some of that programming, which I'd be to glad forward results on.... For some of the programming that is ongoing or will build upon past programming, we can certainly send you examples of that with regard to education.

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

I would appreciate that.

Can you tell me if you have evaluated or who has evaluated the delivery capacity of Afghan ministries or community development councils, etc., in order to deliver these programs? At the same time, how do you think we could be more effective in assisting that delivery system?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz

That will have to be your last question.