Evidence of meeting #15 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was need.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Katharine Storey  As an Individual
Drew Baker  As an Individual
Kyle Foster  As an Individual
Ian Robson  As an Individual
Joe Bouchard  As an Individual
Luke Lelond  As an Individual
Fred Tait  As an Individual
Beverly Stow  As an Individual
Larry Black  As an Individual
Ian Wishart  President, Keystone Agricultural Producers
Gwen Donohoe  Youth Director, Manitoba Rural Adaptation Council
Ted Eastley  Executive Director, Manitoba Rural Adaptation Council Inc. (MRAC)

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Wild Rose, AB

Thank you all for being here today. We're really glad we were able to be here in Manitoba today to hear your thoughts and your ideas and your suggestions about the future of farming, as people who are the future of farming; it's very important.

Of course, as you're well aware, we've been touring across the country to have the opportunity to hear from people in various parts of the country who are actively on the ground, who really are the face and the future of farming, to hear your thoughts on how that best might happen.

This really is where the heart of the matter lies--trying to ensure there's some way for people like you to continue with farming. As you all know, the average age of the farmer is increasing. More and more young people are choosing to leave the farm. I'm an example. I have to admit that I myself chose to leave the farm. I come from Alberta, and I have a brother who tried to make a go of it on the farm and took a job off the farm in the oil patch to try to pay for his farming habit, I guess. He discovered that he was making so much money in the oil patch that it just didn't make any sense for him to continue on with farming.

It's regrettable that we see more and more of that. We have to find a way to make it attractive to remain on the farm, to make it profitable to remain on the farm, so that young people will stay and will choose to get into the industry.

With that in mind, I would like to throw out a couple of very broad questions at you that I think are thought-provoking. I've been asking a similar question all across the country and I've been getting some pretty common threads in the answer. But it's a question that I think is really helpful for me to really figure out where the future needs to be.

As young farmers, what's the biggest difference that you see in the industry now as compared to when your parents were getting started in farming? What do you think has been the biggest change? I know there are some pretty young faces out there. I don't imagine there's a lot of you who are at the point where you have kids who are at that point of thinking about taking over the farm or not. Looking forward into the future, where do you see agriculture at that point in time? Would you be suggesting to your children that they remain on the farm and try to make a go of it as well?

I know it requires a bit of a look back and a bit of a look into the future, but I'd like to ask each of you to share your thoughts on that with me.

9:50 a.m.

As an Individual

Joe Bouchard

I've done a fair bit of looking back when it comes to that question. My grandfather had 30 cows. I have 300. It's all relative. We have the equipment now to do the work. He worked probably harder than I do right now. It's the same amount of hours, the same stress, the same cashflow issues as it was 40 years ago, but it's just all relative.

It's bigger, but it hasn't changed much. It's just on a different scale now.

That's my view.

9:50 a.m.

As an Individual

Kyle Foster

Looking forward, I'd like to say that I want my kids to farm, but what we have to do is figure out a way to make profitable the smaller farms of before. If we could have a 600-acre farm and make good money--we have those people on the land--that's what we need. Right now we cannot make a 600-acre farm profitable unless we do something about the structure of how we get paid.

9:50 a.m.

As an Individual

Katharine Storey

I think the issues are the same now as they were generations ago. It's competition and market access. The competition pressure is much higher to bear now and there are way fewer farmers to band together. Obviously, the cost of production is huge, but if you can't market what you produce and you have no power in that marketplace, then it doesn't matter what the cost of production is.

9:50 a.m.

As an Individual

Drew Baker

I think the main change has been consolidation. Everywhere in the industry the farms are consolidating, the suppliers and buyers are consolidating. We've lost all of the co-ops. It's getting to the point where if you don't get big, you die, and you can't afford to do it, so a lot of farmers are leaving. In the future I'd like to say that this will stop, but I don't see it stopping. Land prices are going up. We're probably going to lose a lot more farmers.

I don't think I would be telling my kids to farm, and I've only been doing it for five years.

9:50 a.m.

As an Individual

Ian Robson

When we lost the Crow rate, our farms directly lost upwards of $30 a tonne. That's a big reason why it's sort of challenging for farmers these days. It points to the fact that you, as a person in the legislature, have a direct effect on farm income. You effectively took $30 a tonne out of my grain income, and nowhere can I account for getting $30 a tonne back for that action having taken place.

So when you look at requests to increase the caps on, say, cash advance, or the increase in caps on payments through government programs, if you increase that cap, what you're saying is that “We don't really want any more farmers involved in the industry. We're happy with the farmers who are there now and want to continue to expand the size of their operations.” So you have to think very hard about what kinds of caps you want to put into place, and it does come down to a judgment call.

Cash advance was another program that was hard-fought to get. We very nearly lost the cash advance program about 15 years ago. Luckily we were able to keep it. There could be some reason to increase the cap a little bit because of inflation.

Anyway, there's food for thought.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thank you.

Just in wrapping up, there seems to have been a fair discussion here--maybe even more today than we've heard in some places--about the size of family farms. I think your positions on family farms are pretty well the same, with maybe the exception of Ian.

My grandfather raised 10 kids on a hundred-acre farm and had a hundred-acre bushlot that he sold a bit of firewood from. He worked a bit off the farm, but basically fed his family from it. My dad raised seven of us and had between 1,500 and 2,000 acres. I raised my three sons on close to 3,000 acres. I don't think there's any correlation between the size of farms and the smaller size of families, but there is that trend there.

But I don't know how you regulate the size of farms. With my operation, over the last five years our sons grew up and started working the farm. My wife and I calved out our 300 cows and kept our 500 backgrounders. We did that ourselves and had a little bit of part-time help with seeding and haying. That's the way it is. I can look back to the days when my dad was just starting out, or when I was a kid, and he had 200 or 300 acres. I can say those were the good old days, but I'm a realist, too, even if I am a sentimentalist. So we have to look at that side of it.

I have a private member's bill that would basically restrict publicly traded companies from having access to the same government programs that you as producers would. I'd like some feedback on that, both negative and positive. It wouldn't exclude a corporate family farm or restrict the size of the family farm--just publicly traded corporations. So I'd like to hear some comments on that.

Kate, you mentioned caps on quotas in the supply management sector. I don't know if you can add to that. I understand that's a concern for the dairy industry. I hear more and more from dairy producers in my riding about how the young guys and women can get into it.

I'd like to hear your comments on that.

9:55 a.m.

As an Individual

Katharine Storey

It's just to address the consolidation concern that a young farmer can't compete. There's a price on quota. When you're buying quota, if a big farmer can take that quota, then the young farmer can't get into the market.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

But is it not up to that industry to regulate it?

9:55 a.m.

As an Individual

Katharine Storey

I'm sure it is, but it's an idea that I think needs to get out there.

It's the same with AgriStability--a cap on the payment. I like your suggestion to not have public money go toward subsidies for public shareholder investment corporations. I think that's a splendid idea.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thank you.

Kyle.

9:55 a.m.

As an Individual

Kyle Foster

I agree. I think agriculture corporations have been taking too much money out of that system. It's an investment for them. They're not family farms; they're not working on the land. Anybody can own shares in these mega hog operations, like the doctor in town or the pharmacist.

I'd also like to see something done about farmland, because some of these investors are buying up the farmland and renting it back. They realize that by renting they can make maybe half a percent more than having a term deposit at a credit union, so they're buying up farmland. Farmers--especially young farmers--have made their equity through the increasing value of the land, and now we're losing out on that.

I also don't think we have to limit the size of farms; I just think it would be nice if we could make them profitable.

10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Be very brief, and then we're going to shut it down here.

10 a.m.

As an Individual

Ian Robson

I appreciate your attempt to.... Once you sit around--as you are here--and observe what's going on, and start to think about it, you'll start coming to some conclusions that are needed. We need to have a discussion on the size of farms.

Nobody intentionally goes out there wanting to farm the whole province. But if nothing happens, that's maybe where we're going. Investment companies are doing that in Ukraine and Brazil. They have been in Australia for years, and they have huge farms in Montana.

So you have a chance: at critical times, the government has a chance to make a difference in life.

10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thanks, Ian.

We have to wrap it up. We have another group of witnesses coming.

There's one last thing I'd like everyone to think about and forward to the committee. There were quite a few questions about the Competition Bureau—I think Frank had some. The Competition Bureau has been asked a number of times to look into a number of things in agriculture—gas pricing and everything. Do they have the tools and are not enforcing them, or do they need tougher or better tools to look at the competition? We don't have time now, but if you have any comments on that I'd be happy to hear from you.

Thank you very much, all of you, for taking time out of your busy days to be here. It's very important, and I think we had a very good discussion here.

We're going to break for a few minutes while we change witnesses.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

We're going to call this second portion of our meeting here today to order. We are studying the future of farming and particularly how we attract and keep young people in it.

I'd just like to thank all of you for being here today.

Coming from an agricultural background, I know how hard it is in good weather, especially in the spring of the year, to take time off. Thanks very much for that.

I'm going to move into presentations, and because we have quite a number, if you could, try to limit your comments to five or seven minutes. I'll be a little flexible, but if you can do that, it'll leave a little more time for questioning.

With that, we're going to start with Luke Lelond.

Thanks, Luke.

10:10 a.m.

Luke Lelond As an Individual

Good morning, and thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today about the barriers that keep young farmers from starting farming.

My name is Luke Lelond, and I'm a mixed farmer from western Manitoba. We raise cattle and grain. I'm from a very unusual area in this day and age. There are 20 farmers under the age of 35 in our municipality. The thing we all have in common is that we would not be farming today if it were not for our parents.

Unless your parents are willing to mortgage their retirement, it is very hard to find someone willing to lend you, without much collateral, enough money to buy land and equipment and run a farm. The most obvious barrier to anyone wanting to farm is capital. Very few people have the cash to buy a farm, and most can't borrow enough either.

Now, let's say you got the money. You bought some land and started farming. What happens if you had a disaster, as I did? You'd go broke if no one was there to bail you out.

I started farming in 2003. BSE hit. Then the long-term family PMU business I was about to buy into downsized, and I lost my opportunity to get established in a profitable farming venture.

Then, in 2004, with the beautiful wheat crop coming, I, along with all of western Manitoba, was hit with an early August frost. All of my crops were reduced to feed. I sold the wheat and collected crop insurance. It did not pay for the spray and fertilizer bill. Our margin-based safety nets did not work.

While the wealthiest farmers get paid the most, the ones with the least money and collateral get nothing. Why is that? The wealthier the farmer, the better the margin. The newest farmers don't have margins.

With the farming disasters of 2003 and 2004--at least in our area--the farming industry lost a lot of good young farmers. If this panel is looking for real solutions to this problem and not just paying lip service to it, this is an area that needs change. If you truly want young farmers to be in the industry and are going to have safety nets, the programs must be of some value to young farmers.

The programs also need to be administered in a timely fashion. I had an established neighbour who, after losing his farm due to BSE and moving to town for employment, received an AgriStability payment five years too late. Not everyone's banker will wait for five years. This does not help keep farmers in the industry.

Access to markets is very important to our bottom line, as we found out during BSE and now with the Triffid issue. I was reading last night that the field trials could start this year for another GM flax at the University of Alberta. Why must we ram things down the consumer's throat instead of asking them what they want? It is the farmer who pays the price.

Oh yes, and to add insult to injury, neither of the two officials contacted in the university's faculty of agriculture had heard of CDC Triffid or the problems it had caused. These are the people we trust to keep our market safe.

During the last few years of turmoil in the markets, I was very fortunate to have grain locked in at a profitable price with the Canadian Wheat Board. I was guaranteed my money, something that farmers who sold directly to independent buyers were not. If that doesn't seem important, ask the American farmers who had $7 corn locked in with ethanol plants that went bankrupt.

We hear a lot about the last Wheat Board plebiscite. I did not get a vote in the last one even though I qualified. I was not on the voting list. Although I attempted to get on the list, my ballot came too late to be cast.

Incidentally, I know an older couple who never farmed a day in their life, and they each received a ballot on time. It makes you question the results.

I have stated the problems as I see them. Now I will offer you some solutions as I see them from a young farmer's point of view. I will state them briefly, and I would welcome questions.

First and foremost, a proper safety net program has to be established by an act of Parliament. Without an act of Parliament, the rules change day by day, something we've witnessed for years now.

Second, leave the Wheat Board in the farmers' hands.

Third, when a company releases a product that causes undue hardship to farmers, the company should be held responsible, and the farmer should be compensated.

Fourth, PFRA community pastures are very important to young farmers trying to get into the cattle business. Please continue to support them.

And if you're feeling really generous, maybe you'll reinstate the Crow rate.

Thank you.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thanks very much, Luc.

We'll now move to Mr. Fred Tait, for five to seven minutes, please.

10:15 a.m.

Fred Tait As an Individual

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I think the problem we're looking at today is not one of production. It's not one of climate, although there is, from time to time, some variability. The problem is often one of denial. We've invested at least 40 years in going in a direction where the marketplace alone should determine the structure of the agriculture production system and the rural communities of Canada, and that model has failed. Yet it's hard to accept that; there's a denial in place.

In reality, young farmers would be small farmers. My colleague just pointed out the problem of financing. If one were to accumulate 2,000 acres today to make a viable farm, one would be looking at a $4-million or $5-million debt load.

We also understand that technology has made the larger production unit possible. While it has done so, the marketplace has adjusted itself in structure to capture all the so-called efficiencies from the application of those technologies. The smaller margins per unit of production means the smaller farms are no longer viable within this structure.

I think we also have to take a critical look at public policy itself. If one were to look at past public accounts of Canada and see how the distribution of public assistance to agriculture was delivered, one would see even in this community where, with generosity, we delivered over $1,400 a day of federal assistance, on a 365-day basis, to one unit. One would wonder that this did not have the effect of consolidating that unit into a larger and more “viable” operation.

We also might want to look at what the Farm Credit Corporation has done in encouraging this type of concentration, particularly the part it played in the concentration of the structure of the Canadian hog industry, which drove most of the farmers out of that.

We have created a situation today that I call “technology dependency”. I marvel at the sophistication and education of the current large farmers, but I have also have become very nervous about their reliance on that technology.

Whether we have reached peak oil now, or we reach it in the future, when we reach that point, technology based on fossil fuels will not be readily available. We'll rely on another system of agriculture that we have systematically removed and destroyed. The current model, then, is really not a sustainable model for much longer into the future.

I also think the committee members have to look at the declining share of the consumer dollar that comes to the farmer producer. In 1970, the beef producer would earn about 65% of the consumer's dollar. In 2008, according to information released by Charles Gracey, we'd be getting 40% or less. He also pointed out that the retailers today are capturing 50% of the value of beef.

We have to wonder why that would be so. Is it because the retail industry in its concentrated form has become large, bureaucratic, inefficient, and requires a larger share, or they're exercising market power through monopolist structures?

We have to ask ourselves what can be done. We certainly have to look at the issue of food sovereignty from the point of a country--public policy in agriculture versus market forces policy in the marketplace. We have to look at establishing, as much as possible, local food systems, and we also have to look at retaining producer ownership in the marketplace as long as possible within that marketplace.

We have to look at changing the model in which our agricultural faculties at universities now function. We need to do a parallel in education, in what I would call low-input agriculture. We need to educate people that there is an option rather than an expensive, low-margin system of agriculture; also, to create the tools we will need as a society if my theory of peak oil and our current system of production not being sustainable comes to pass.

We have to deal at length with the weakness of our competition and anti-competition laws. They have proven to be totally inadequate in that they have allowed the concentration that has taken place. If one believes in a marketplace, a marketplace can only function if there are a number of competitors in that. As the number of competitors in the marketplace, in agriculture, both on the supply side and the market side, has decreased, the producer's share of the consumer's dollar has also appropriately declined.

We have to deal at some length, I believe, with this whole issue of land transfer, intergenerational transfers of land. Farm debt today sits at $61 billion. Farm debt today, based on market returns, is not sustainable. We have created a situation in land pricing and land ownership very similar to the U.S. housing market.

Land is being purchased on the theory that inflation will continue and I will gain 50% equity in my purchase through inflation over a decade. That theory can only go so far, because if one looks at the real return from the marketplace, in earnings, one would find that this earning has been less than $2 per acre per year for the last 20 years. That type of a return does not support $2,000-per-acre land.

We must also look at this generational transfer of land, at who it benefits and who it harms. It is not in my interest to indebt the population that occupies the land behind me. What I would like to see is a system basically similar to a reverse mortgage, where upon retirement, I need an income, but I don't need a tax problem. The incoming farmer need not pay interest to a bank. I need a monthly payment that supplies me with an income in my retirement, and upon my demise, my estate could then continue receiving those payments and avoid altogether the possibilities of adding to the $61-billion debt.

I would also think that this committee should look at—this is my final point, Mr. Chairman—this whole theory that our success in agriculture is dependent on our capacity to increase exports. If one is going to be the successful exporter, then one has to be the lowest-cost supplier into that export market.

From this geographic location, from this climate, I can never be that. Those are the natural rules.

Thank you for your time.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thanks, Fred.

Could you just clarify something for me before we move on? You made a comment there about $2 per acre for the last 20 years.

10:20 a.m.

As an Individual

Fred Tait

Mr. Chairman, if you take away public support to agriculture and use the market returns that were earned from the marketplace itself, you'll come up with an actual figure that will be, actually, about $1.45 per acre. I was generous.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Okay. I just wanted to clarify that.

Next we have Beverly Stow, for five to seven minutes, please.

10:25 a.m.

Beverly Stow As an Individual

My name is Beverly Stow. My husband, Reg, and I farm at Graysville, on the western edge of Manitoba's Red River Valley. We also still have my home farm at Snowflake, which is in its 131st year of being part of our family.

I wish to thank the committee for hearing our thoughts on the challenges and issues. I will carry on with what I think mostly are challenges.

Oddly enough, it appears that the previous policies of the body now seeking these solutions are, in many ways, responsible for the problem we are attempting to address. Diligent implementation of the royal commission report from the late sixties, which concluded that Canada had too many farmers, coupled with an extremely aggressive—mostly foreign—corporate lobby bound and bent on owning the business of food have gone a long way in producing the current situation.

While there has been decline in all age groups among farmers, the sharpest and most critical decline has been in the group we're talking about today. In Manitoba alone, it has fallen from 7,190 in 1991 to 2,815 in 2006. Looking at other numbers for the same period, an NFU research study reveals that over the past 20 years, adjusted for inflation, farmers have generated $389 per year per acre and have been allowed to keep $1.45 in the same period. Again, over roughly the same timeframe, farmers have tripled their exports but have seen their incomes halved and farm debt skyrocket to the $60 billion range. Disturbingly, these numbers coincide roughly with the period that the FTA and NAFTA have been in force.

Much of the physical, economic, and regulatory infrastructure that sustained Canadian farmers in the period from the twenties to the early nineties is rapidly being eroded, or has already gone. What has replaced it has been an unrelenting downloading of costs onto the producer, with little or no corresponding increase in farm prices.

In the past 12 years, over 3,000 miles of rail have been pulled up in the west, with Canada possibly being the only country in the world moving in this direction. The Crow rate has been lost, and there has been no implementation of joint running rights to ensure a measure of competition. Moreover, there have been persistent attacks on the Canadian Wheat Board, and there is now reason for grave concern about supply management.

Implementation of plant breeders' rights increasingly places at risk farmers' thousands of years' old right to save seed and maintain some measure of control over costs, which is further exacerbated by cutbacks in public plant breeding and the voracious foreign corporate appetite for patents and patent enforcement.

Enormous caps on business risk management programs encourage large farms to grow larger and vastly reduce the opportunity for a young farmer to acquire land. Large caps cause one to wonder, if these large units are working so well, why do they require such infusions from the public purse?

In the marketplace, large farms are given discounts on inputs and premiums on deliveries for which small farmers do not qualify, creating the ludicrous situation of the small farmer paying for the benefits of the large operations.

Together Reg and I have been farming for 47 years. For Reg it will be well over 50 years. Never have we seen the market concentration now faced by farmers. Single companies now own entire supply chains, from the farm gate to the grocery store; and while they are at it, they will sell you your farm inputs, too, in a 21st century version of owing your soul to the company store.

Successive rationalizations have seen exponential increases in the distances farmers must travel to market their product. The two large beef packers remaining in western Canada now pretty much control price through captive supply and unpriced contracts, and they also determine the location of auction marts through distribution of their buyers. For us it's an hour and a half one way to get our cattle to market.

In a region where rail is far and away the most efficient, economical, and environmentally responsible mode for moving large volumes of heavy goods over long distances, farmers are now forced to wheelbarrow their grain to and fro, over roads designed for light vehicles, to whichever company is offering a penny or two more at the time. This, even, is an increasingly rare event, since the few remaining companies—through their periodic rationalizations—have carved out territories among themselves to eliminate any meaningful competition.

This concentration has been achieved through intense corporate lobbying of politicians, the public bureaucracy, and the regulatory system, the most notable of which, the Competition Bureau, seems to have become a rubber stamp for the corporate wish list. Unfortunately, a weak and divided farm lobby is ineffective in the face of a well-paid corporate lobbyist determined to have his way and officials who are equally determined to give it to him.

The entire issue of policy changes appears to have another twist, in that issues that will affect a farmer's livelihood are always addressed when the farm population is seeding, or harvesting, or something else.

Young people, even those who have dreamed all their lives of farming, are finding it increasingly difficult to justify a move to an industry that offers so little prospect of a secure living.

The Easter report, undertaken by the Martin government in 2004-05, addressed many of these issues and suggested plausible solutions. In the intervening years, the situation has become considerably more critical. Dusting that report off, updating it, and implementing its proposals would go a long way to solving the problems before us.

I would close by stressing that the issue at hand is not merely one of disappearing farmers, but goes to national food safety and security, and the dangers of trusting control of Canada's food supply largely to the eager hands of the foreign transnationals. I strongly doubt that when the British government repealed the Corn Laws in 1846, thereby decimating their farmers in favour of manufacturers and commodity traders, they had any idea that early in the following century, their island's supply routes would be blockaded and their citizens threatened with starvation.

Carelessness with farmers and the food supply inevitably ends badly.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thank you, Beverly.

Larry Black, for five to seven minutes, please.

10:30 a.m.

Larry Black As an Individual

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm Larry Black from Deloraine, Manitoba. This spring my wife and I will sow our 33rd crop. I'm very passionate about this particular subject. I've seen a lot of my neighbours leave the industry, and I've seen the negative effects on our rural communities.

I'd like to start by saying that asking what we can do to entice more young people to consider farming is much too narrow a focus. The real problem is declining net farm income. The farm crisis is 25 years old, and the disinterest of our young people is just a symptom of the much bigger problem. I'm afraid that if we focus on the symptom, then the solution will be a temporary band-aid at best. If we fix the problem and put profitability back into farming, the symptoms, such as young people not being interested, mounting farm debt, rural community decline, and stress on farm families, will look after themselves. When there's no longer a need for a farm and rural stress line, then we can finally put this issue to bed.

Lots of young people still want to farm. We need to have an economically viable climate to make that possible. Capital investment is astronomical. Potential returns seldom meet expectations. The stress level plus debt level plus workload equal no quality of life. In this current economic climate, I would not recommend a young person enter this industry.

Let's examine what's happening in agriculture today. Pork producers are losing money, and there are programs in place to help them exit the industry. Beef producers have been losing money ever since BSE in 2003. The business risk management programs are wholly inadequate to support these industries. Grain producers are always at a break-even price or worse. Programs for this industry are also inadequate. Lyle Vanclief stated that the next business risk management programs were going to take agriculture beyond crisis management. In my opinion, they are even more inadequate than before.

Supply-managed commodities are faring much better than any of their counterparts are. So what went wrong, and how do we fix it? I would describe the problem as a failure of farm policy to maintain a favourable economic climate to support primary producers. The companies that farmers do business with, on both the purchasing side and the marketing side, which are very often the same companies, have amalgamated to the point where there's no real competition left in the marketplace. The Competition Bureau hasn't been doing their job. There has been lots of mention of the Competition Bureau today, and I guess I'll carry on with that.

A business graduate may have started a career with the bureau, completed a 30-year career, turned in his rubber stamp, and not had to say no to a merger the whole time he worked there. How important is market power when we're looking at solutions here? I mentioned supply management earlier. I consider this to be the premier marketing structure. We control imports through tariffs, although in the dairy industry we still do allow 5%, and I know the feather industry's import allowances are considerably higher than that.

We control production with quotas. We set our price using an agreed-upon formula, including the cost of production component. This system doesn't rely on government subsidies. The revenue comes from the marketplace, where it should come from. All sectors of the value chain are getting a fair return, and the consumer gets a quality product at an affordable price.

Supply management has allowed me to put the next generation on our farm. This system balances the market power. Another example of a marketing agency is the Wheat Board, and the benefit of this institution is the single-desk selling which reduces competition on the selling side. The price pooling gets you the same price regardless of the time of year you market. This is really important, because in the fall when so many bills are due, the grain price is typically at its lowest.

The Wheat Board is a strong advocate for farmers, taking on issues such as poor transportation service from the railways and battling against the introduction of Roundup Ready wheat when so many of our customers are saying no to this product. The Wheat Board can provide customers with a consistent quality to suit their individual needs, and a majority of farmers support this agency, as evidenced by the number of directors who are Wheat Board supporters.

One of the next points I have here has to do with the World Trade Organization and those negotiations. This is not really about fair trade. It's about further advantaging our multinationals and writing in stone their ability to make even more profit at the expense of everyone else, especially farmers. We have made-in-Canada expenses, and we need made-in-Canada policies to help us realize an adequate return from the marketplace.

If you go to Geneva and you sign away your ability to do this, how will you manage the problems we experience here? Farmers are expected to pay 2010 bills with 1972 income.

I have a copy of a report here called Empowering Canadian Farmers in the Marketplace, and I see the author is with us today, which I'm happy to see. Six years ago Wayne Easter interviewed 450 producers and farm leaders, in a process not unlike the one we have here today. I suspect the dust on that copy in Ottawa is even more than what I just blew off of mine. I have to say it makes me wonder where the report on today's proceedings is going to end up.

I think this report captures the very essence of where the real problems in this industry are. Some of the issues that this document identifies are the following. There's a need to balance the market power between farmers and agri-business, and that's all throughout this document, it's front and centre. It mentions the farm debt situation, and the statistics in there say that in 1994 we had $23.5 billion, and in 2004 we had $48.9 billion, which is more than doubling in 10 years. In 2010, we're now exceeding $60 billion. This is a time bomb, probably of equal proportions to the young farmer issue.

This report acknowledges the small share of the retail price that the farmer receives and stresses the need to publicize this point whenever possible. That's something that our Keystone Agricultural Producers have taken upon themselves to do, and I think it needs to be done at a far greater level. It also supports and acknowledges the benefits that the Wheat Board brings to farmers. For some reason, our government of the day is intent upon dismantling this institution, when this government document--and I mean this document--cites independent research and praises the advantages of the institution. At a time when farmers need to pull together for strength, Minister Ritz is dividing them. There are plenty of options to assist farmers, that all farmers could agree upon, and regardless of what side of the Wheat Board debate you're on, as a farmer, the main concern to me is how the government can stomp on our democratic rights and take away our own choice.

I would like to quote a recommendation out of this report--to talk about the Competition Bureau again--that says: Restructure the Competition Bureau, instructing it to review the impact of current and proposed consolidations from the perspective of how they will affect the primary producer.

Now, why would this need to be reconstructed? Isn't that exactly what they were supposed to do in the first place? I would like to request that the committee share with us later--I know that has been done at a small scale here this morning--what exactly the Competition Bureau's mandate is currently. And I'd like to add to that: what did it used to be? Was there a change in that process? I'm really curious about that.

It's important that you understand I'm not just slamming the Conservatives here for some of their actions. The Liberals have spent more time at the helm in the last 25 years than the Conservatives, and I don't think their farm policies were all that much more friendly to us either.

I'm going to switch pages now to talk about solutions.