Evidence of meeting #5 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was agricultural.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Rene Van Acker  Professor and Associate Dean, External Relations, University of Guelph, As an Individual
Gordon Bacon  Chief Executive Officer, Pulse Canada
Wilfred Keller  President and Chief Executive Officer, Genome Prairie
Mary Boyd  Representative, P.E.I. Health Coalition
Leo Broderick  Representative, P.E.I. Health Coalition

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

I call the meeting to order.

Going by the agenda, today's meeting is split into two one-hour segments.

Before we get to the witnesses we have a budget. To carry out our study that was approved yesterday and recommended by the subcommittee, this budget is something we have to do to have our witnesses here. The amount is for $78,100 to conduct the study for our review on Growing Forward 2.

I would entertain a motion to adopt this.

Okay, it's been moved by Mr. Allen and seconded by Mr. Payne.

Is there discussion?

(Motion agreed to)

Thank you very much.

I'd like to welcome our witnesses.

From Pulse Canada, we have Mr. Gordon Bacon. Thanks for being here, Gordon.

By videoconference from Guelph, as an individual, we have Dr. Rene Van Acker, professor and associate dean at the University of Guelph. Welcome, Dr. Van Acker.

Can you hear us?

3:30 p.m.

Dr. Rene Van Acker Professor and Associate Dean, External Relations, University of Guelph, As an Individual

Yes, I can hear you.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

We'll give you 10 minutes or less for your presentation.

We'll start with you, Mr. Bacon.

3:30 p.m.

Gordon Bacon Chief Executive Officer, Pulse Canada

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

And good afternoon to all the committee members.

Many of you will be familiar with Pulse Canada. We are a national industry association that represents pulse growers in Ontario, Saskatchewan, Alberta, and Manitoba, as well as the Canadian Special Crops Association, the association that represents processors, exporters, and service providers for the pea, lentil, bean, and chickpea industry. We also work informally with a wide range of Canadian agricultural groups and our counterparts in the United States, Australia, and other pulse producing and importing nations.

Our job at Pulse Canada, as the national association, is to look for ways to make our industry more profitable. To be profitable, we have to build demand. To build demand, we have to offer value. And to capture value, we have to control costs. So I probably could summarize everything I want to say and suggest a focus for government and government-private sector initiatives with four words, that we need to focus on improving value and improving efficiency.

Our job is to make continual progress towards improving the value of Canadian agricultural products and the efficiency with which we can bring them to market. To create value, we have to innovate, and innovation in agriculture is driven by investments from both the public and private sectors. We could have a lengthy discussion about the investments that are needed to drive value. This is an important topic, and one where we have to ask ourselves whether we can clearly show whether we are being innovative.

Investments in science and innovation, in areas that add value, such as focusing on health, nutrition, and environmental sustainability, are already making a difference in Canadian agriculture, and these investments, the kind that add value to Canadian agricultural products, have to continue.

But today I want to focus my comments on your interest in public policy issues that will help improve efficiency and, in the process, build a more competitive agricultural sector.

Canada, as you know, is the world's largest producer and exporter of peas and lentils, and is a major player in global bean markets. As any team in first place knows, we can't afford to be complacent.

Interest in food security, on a global basis, and rising food prices have resulted in governments in Asia and the Middle East making strategic investments, and these investments are designed to increase food production in Eastern Europe and Africa. I believe these investments are going to present some real challenges for the Canadian export economy in the relatively short to intermediate future.

And if any of us need to be reminded about how quickly the world changes, we can just look at a couple of examples, China and Russia being two of my favourite examples. We don’t have to go back very many years and look at what China was doing in terms of being an exporter of some agricultural products, and now, with soybeans, is importing 50 million to 60 million tonnes. Russia, which for many years was a major market for Canadian wheat, is now a competitor of ours on international markets.

So recognizing how quickly markets change and the lead time that we all need in order to make our own changes emphasizes the importance of creating a dynamic and innovative agricultural sector. My view is that the industry needs investments in innovation more than it needs investments in stabilization. Just to emphasize that point, with current investments in agriculture by government, I think something over 90% of them are to safety net and stabilization programs.

Competition around price defines a commodity market. As a commodity exporter, we have to look for ways to lower costs to improve our efficiency. This is a challenge, but it is also the reality of exporting commodities in an open market. Investments in innovation have to focus on making the industry more cost-efficient to compete in the commodity markets, and we have to actively look for ways of differentiating ourselves in the markets so that low prices are not the only offering of Canadian agriculture.

A competitive export sector is built around market access, and I want to speak briefly to the key market access needs. These include addressing challenges and opportunities related to tariff barriers, non-tariff barriers, and transportation.

First, on the topic of tariff barriers, bluntly stated, Canadian agriculture can't compete against a tariff barrier. And with multilateral trade discussion on life-support for more than two years, Pulse Canada has been an active supporter, and a long-time supporter, of bilateral trade deals. For an export economy, eliminating tariff barriers is an essential element of public policy that needs to continue to have strong support. Perhaps I can use one example just to illustrate the importance of this.

It was about six years ago that the U.S. concluded agreements on a bilateral trade basis with Morocco. At the beginning of 2012, the U.S. will enjoy a 30% tariff advantage over Canadian peas, and a 2.8% advantage over lentils. Thankfully, we have at least started discussions with Morocco, because even at these levels of 2.8%, we are going to have a difficult time being competitive in the Moroccan market. The harsh reality is that Canadian peas may end up in Morocco, but they won't be known as Canadian peas because they will have had to come in from another country to avoid the disadvantage we will have from a tariff perspective.

Tariff parity and access to import quotas to match those of our competitors have to remain at the top of the list of priorities in public policy. Investments in negotiating trade deals are good investments for agriculture.

Equally as disruptive to trade are the non-tariff barriers. These include zero tolerance policies, plant quarantine restrictions, differences in maximum residue limits for pesticides, and restrictions on mycotoxins and heavy metals. The issue with non-tariff barriers is that different governments in different parts of the world take different approaches to establishing them. This creates enormous problems for trade.

Globally, harmonized approaches are very important. And with this in mind, there's an overwhelming need to press forward with OECD and global joint reviews for pesticide registrations, and for Canada to play a leadership role at Codex Alimentarius, the global food safety regulatory agency established by the World Health Organization and the FAO.

At a recent meeting of the global heads of pesticide regulatory agencies, Pulse Canada talked about a one-world-approach to registration of pesticides. The reason we did this is that there is a problem with both old chemistry and new crop protection chemistry, in that the maximum residue limits for these products are different in different countries around the world. While Canada's PMRA has shown leadership in initiating processes for global sharing of pesticide registration reviews, we have a very strong concern that PMRA does not have the resources to continue participating and providing the leadership that will be needed.

Of additional concern is the fact that Codex does not have tolerances for many Canadian products. Just as an example, 13 of 17 pesticides used on lentils do not have a Codex standard in place.

Canada is well positioned to provide the leadership needed at these international forums, but leadership is going to need an investment to ensure that our regulatory agencies continue to push for change at the international level.

Plant quarantine issues are also of great importance. While recognizing the need to take action to restrict invasive species from being introduced, there are a lot of examples where approaches to dealing with quarantine concerns are applied inconsistently and without consideration of how the rules are going to impact trade. The access of Canadian canary seed to the Mexican market is a very good example of where a process has broken down and where the approaches that are in place in Mexico are not based on science.

From a public policy perspective, our suggestion is that Canada has to play a strong leadership role in working to eliminate the problems that create non-tariff barriers to trade. A continued focus on the one-world-approach to global pesticide policy; being a champion of the need for science and risk-based approaches to the sources of non-tariff trade barriers such as GMOs, soil or weed seeds; and bringing Codex into the 21st century and ensuring that it provides up-to-date information are areas that are going to take increased investment by government. But these will also help to ensure some competitiveness.

Finally, the element I want to talk about is transportation and its importance in an export economy. I will just tell you a story about an experience that we recently had in Colombia, where we signed a free trade agreement that eliminated some tariff barriers. But we were reminded by a Colombian importer that even with a 15% tariff advantage, Canada was going to be challenged, because we were not seen as a reliable supplier of product. That importer faced a 50-day delay in getting a vessel into Vancouver.

The outcome that we have to strive to achieve in transportation is meeting commitments to customers and moving product in a cost-efficient way and, frankly, we aren't there yet. Vessel demurrage this past winter in Vancouver was reported as being five times higher than average, and three times higher than in the previous year. A Port Metro Vancouver official reported that he had never seen it so bad in Vancouver, a view that was shared by that Colombian importer.

When one of the solutions proposed is to install more anchors off the port of Vancouver, it suggests that we aren't focusing on addressing the problems that impact our global reputation and our costs.

We have to improve the efficiency of the handling and logistics systems. We can start by moving quickly to implement all of the components of the announcement made by the government on March 18.

Putting in place a system to measure performance will tell us whether we are making real progress. We can't be satisfied with record vessel demurrage and container ships that regularly overbook by 40% to ensure that they sail full when leaving Canada. These costs come out of farmers' pockets and clearly undermine our competitive position.

Pulse Canada has been a strong supporter of legislation to give shippers the rights to service-level agreements and to define the types of service that need to be negotiated so that there is more predictability in our logistics system.

In summary, we recognize that government expenditures have to be aligned with revenues. It would be irresponsible on my part to suggest that we just need to spend more money. We are suggesting that as government looks to Growing Forward 2 and to the policy framework that is needed to support these private-public sector initiatives, there needs to be an alignment between what industry needs and what roles the government is going to play.

What is particularly important at a time when the government is looking at a strategic and operating review is to consider that even more investment in some areas is warranted in the need-to-have areas. As well, government should focus more on innovation that moves agriculture out of being in the global commodity business.

Mr. Chairman, my time is up. I'll wrap up my comments with that.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thank you very much. We'll get back to you during questions.

Mr. Van Acker, you have 10 minutes or less.

I believe we may have seen you at the university at some hearings we had back there a year ago.

3:40 p.m.

Professor and Associate Dean, External Relations, University of Guelph, As an Individual

Dr. Rene Van Acker

That's right, yes. It's good to see you.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

And it's good to see you.

You have 10 minutes here, please.

3:40 p.m.

Professor and Associate Dean, External Relations, University of Guelph, As an Individual

Dr. Rene Van Acker

I thank the committee for the opportunity to present. My comments will be about the future for the agriculture and food sector in Canada, and the various opportunities and challenges it faces.

The context for the future of agriculture is important. Many things have changed over the past decade, and this change is accelerating. I want to provide some of the context by highlighting fundamental issues and ideas that underpin considerations for a progressive strategy for the agriculture and food sector in Canada.

Demands on this sector are growing rapidly. Traditional demands, as we all know, have been for a safe and reliable raw commodity, safe high-quality food, and some level of land or soil stewardship. There are many new demands, including clean water, high-quality and safe niche products, clean energy platforms, a connection to the land, health and wellness products, a healthy environment, cultural diversity, landscape stewardship, vibrant rural communities, economic potential, food security, and food sovereignty.

There are some key points to note about this situation. First, the demands on the agriculture and food and rural sector in Canada are accumulating. They do not trade off. Perhaps the greatest challenge facing the Canadian agriculture and food sector is that for any set of these demands, they will not be required to do this or that, but this and that. Second, these demands increasingly are not only about what is farmed but also about how it is farmed. Third, these demands point to a heightened interest in agriculture on the part of consumers and urban people. Finally, such an accumulation of demands cannot normally be met through a narrowly focused agricultural strategy, nor can they be met by a simplified and non-diversified farming system on the whole. They require a strategy to create what might be called multi-functional, diversified, and integrated agricultural systems.

We understand well that agriculture is affected by the environment and that agriculture can in turn affect the environment, but increasingly, even among agriculturalists, there is a realization by society that agriculture is the environment. The vast majority of Canadians, and in fact the vast majority of people in the world, live in watersheds and landscapes that are farmed, and so agriculture is in many ways our most relevant environment. The water we drink, the air we breathe, the food we eat, and the beauty and biological diversity of our surroundings are determined by the way in which our environment is farmed. This creates a tremendous feeling of ownership by urban people towards the agriculture around them, which presents a tremendous opportunity for urban-rural and urbanite-farmer relationships. There is also a tremendous opportunity for agriculture to take environmental leadership in terms of national policy and actions. Canada and North America's food culture is evolving rapidly and the desire to have a connection to food provenance and knowledge of food characteristics is much stronger now among the world's citizens than it has ever been. In this regard, the food market is rapidly diversifying and expanding both domestically and internationally, thus creating great opportunities but also challenges.

This context for Canada's agriculture and food sector is very different from what it was even 20 years ago. The needs and the market have changed fundamentally, and the sector is working to catch up. There are a lot of things that need to be done. For example, the current standard farming model can be characterized as having relatively simple production systems and relatively few cash engines on the farm, being reliant on commodity prices and being capital intensive, having high-risk biologically fragile systems, being reliant on purchased inputs, and having a management focus that is primarily financial. Farms must be large in order to compete. Although this model is well suited to an important and major sector of the market, that being transportable commodities, and it serves some societal needs and expectations well, it is not robust and flexible enough to meet so many of the new needs and new markets. It is also a biologically simple model and therefore one that is inherently susceptible to pest and disease attack, and not well suited to adaptation or to a changing climate.

In systems designed to serve a much broader range of needs, the markets are diversified and integrated, and they may include moderately complex to complex diversified production systems; multiple cash engines on the farm; niche sales and/or engagement in the value chain; reduced capital needs; moderated risks; biologically robust systems; flexibility and reliance on purchased inputs; a management focus that is financial, biological, and social; and farms that can be viable whether they are big or small.

It is easy to be an academic, especially when you are one like me, and to throw stones at the current state. I understand that there are real and practical reasons why it is difficult to make change happen, including changes in farming systems.

When I was teaching a third-year course in agronomy and weed management at the University of Manitoba, I used to ask the students what the barriers were to diversified and integrated farming systems. They showed great insight, and some of their answers included the following: a lack of infrastructure such as livestock facilities and processing facilities; market uncertainty due to fear of unfamiliar and new markets; lack of experience or training in managing livestock; lack of knowledge and experience with innovative endeavours at the farm, family, community, and institutional levels; no opportunities to gain experience or knowledge; lack of expertise in institutions, and institutions supporting a narrow range of primarily mainstream systems; and farm programs that do not necessarily support innovation or integrative systems.

So what does all of this mean to Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada and the science and innovation strategy in Growing Forward 2? I hope that the following observations can provide some practical context and rationale for the challenges we need to tackle and the opportunities we can pursue. One example is the continued diversification and integration required in farming systems in order to lead an increasingly multifunctional societal demand.

I also hope that these comments can provide some rationale for an expanded role in economic development for the agriculture and food sector to meet rapidly expanding and accumulating domestic and international societal and market needs. I also hope that these comments highlight areas where Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada is well justified in being the national leader, including progressive policies and initiatives on both the environment and food.

In relation to this, we at the University of Guelph and the Ontario Agricultural College are developing initiatives to move in these many directions. For example, we've partnered with Loblaw Companies Limited, Canada’s largest food retailer, which has provided funding for us to create North America’s first chair in sustainable food production. We've partnered with the Egg Farmers of Canada, which has provided funding for Canada’s first chair in poultry welfare.

The Dairy Farmers of Ontario and the Ontario dairy network have been long-time partners helping to support chairs in food safety and dairy food innovation respectively. We've been fortunate to garner support for Canada research chairs in food and health.

The Canada research chairs program and the NSERC industrial research chair programs are places where there could be more direction for establishing chairs relevant to the science and innovation needs of the agriculture and food sector. We have the Ontario premier’s chair in biomaterials development using agricultural feedstocks, and the soon to be expanding Bioproducts Discovery & Development Centre.

In addition, going back to the “this and that” idea I mentioned earlier, we still maintain a broader range of programs in plant and animal breeding and genetics, soils science, agronomy, greenhouse production, food processing, agricultural economics, consumer trends analysis, post-harvest storage, animal nutrition, herd management, pest management, etc.

The Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs has also been a long-time partner and, through the University of Guelph-OMAFRA agreement, has led research on an increasing diversity of topics, reflecting the expanding role of the agriculture, food, and rural sector.

We also have long-standing research collaborations with Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada scientists, and are very pleased to have recently established two co-locations of AAFC scientists at the University of Guelph, who include Dr. Ali Navabi, a bean breeder in the department of plant agriculture; and Dr. Stefanie Torrey, who studies the links between farm animal behaviour, nutrition, production, and welfare within the department of animal and poultry science.

These co-locations have led to synergies in research. One example is Ali Navabi and Peter Pauls' recent $3.7 million Ontario research fund grant to sequence the bean genome—a first in the world—and to provide extra capacity to accelerate the training of highly qualified personnel for the sector. They help to build very deep and strategic connections between our university and Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada. In fact, it was a co-located Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada scientist, Gary Johnston, who bred the now famous Yukon Gold potato at the University of Guelph.

We are also pleased to see Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada establishing new programs that do show leadership, such as the agricultural greenhouse gas program.

We, and I suspect OMAFRA as well, are very interested in building further collaborations through co-locations and combined research initiatives through the growing forward program.

At the Ontario Agricultural College, we have a long history—over 137 years—of leadership in teaching, research, and service to help build the agriculture and food sector provincially, nationally, and internationally. Initially this meant building a college that was strictly focused on agriculture. After 137 years, our fundamental mandate has not changed, but the college has changed considerably to meet the broader and accumulating needs within that mandate. Where once we were just focused on agriculture, we now identify ourselves in four core areas: food, agriculture, rural communities, and the environment. I think our experience resembles Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada's experience. Perhaps the science and innovation strategy in Growing Forward 2 can acknowledge this evolution and publicly claim an expanded role to provide national leadership on working to meet the rapidly accumulating, diverse and critical needs of society and the market.

Thank you.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thank you very much, Mr. Van Acker.

We'll now move into questioning of the witnesses. Just to remind the members, the committee has decided to go with five-minute rounds, including the question and the answer. As long as nobody abuses this too badly, I will be flexible.

Mr. Allen, would you start, please, for five minutes.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to both of you for being with us today.

Dr. Van Acker, you talked about collaboration with Guelph and Agriculture Canada, as well as provincially. My understanding is that there is some collaboration going on at Vineland Research Station as well.

Those are all wonderful things. The question always is: How do we deliver those collaborative events and those collaborative efforts to the farm gate, so that these actually become something that is utilized? I was wondering if you could speak to how we see that information being transferred back to farmers, and what kind of model you might see as being useful for us to look at. Obviously there would be more than one, I would think, but I'll allow you to explain that for us.

3:55 p.m.

Professor and Associate Dean, External Relations, University of Guelph, As an Individual

Dr. Rene Van Acker

Thank you.

There has been a tradition in the agricultural schools across the country of faculty and staff being engaged in what we used to call extension. There was a formal mandate in OAC for that. That formal mandate really falls under the provincial ministry now, but despite that, most of the faculty remain dedicated to that sort of role. One thing that has also happened at this university is that some of the OMAFRA extension staff are also co-located within some of our departments. That creates a camaraderie and a knowledge transfer right there, sometimes in the coffee room, for example. It also creates partnerships, where there are combined efforts in terms of extension.

One example that we're involved in is something called FarmSmart, an annual conference here in Guelph in January, which is a collaboration between the university and OMAFRA. Another one is the Southwest Agricultural Conference at our Ridgetown Campus. The SWAC conference attracts something like 2,500 farmers and farm industry personnel over two days, and it's a collaboration, I would say, between provincial, federal, and university researchers and industry personnel, for them to share information and technology and what's new and is happening. I think many of these traditional means, as some might consider them to be, are still highly effective and create a community of knowledge that we are still very happy to participate in.

One other innovation that I've noticed at Vineland is that they have what I would call a technology officer. His name escapes me at the moment. I apologize. His role at the Vineland Research and Innovation Centre is to scout technologies around the world that may not necessarily require research but might require regional or local development work. He brings those to the attention of Vineland and others, and that's a way of accelerating technology that may be researched elsewhere and can be developed here or adapted here. That's just an example of another model.

I hope that answers some of your question.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

There's no doubt that it helps.

If I'm hearing you correctly, you believe that the collaboration between what we're doing in what one might call academia versus what's happening with what we might call traditional research, whether it be in the Ontario sense or the Agriculture Canada sense, is that if we continue the linkages, good things will continue to come from that. I think you've articulated that.

I'm wondering if that's something we should be enhancing. Is it a place where we ought to be looking at continuing or strengthening the model, or is the model working adequately at this point in time?

4 p.m.

Professor and Associate Dean, External Relations, University of Guelph, As an Individual

Dr. Rene Van Acker

If we're specifically talking about translating the knowledge and technology to farmers, and if you asked producer groups, I suspect they would like to see more of that. I don't have the data in front of me, but I suspect that's what they would say.

Certainly, I know many of my colleagues within the Ontario Agricultural College would also like to do more. If there were a way of facilitating that, I think you would have lots of participants.

Having said that, I think there is a lot going on already. I don't know if you would necessarily have to have a tremendous program to accelerate that; I think a lot of it can happen already. It would obviously have to be in collaboration with, and maybe key leadership from, the province, because that mandate, as far as I can tell, rests with the province through what used to be called the extension service.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thank you.

We'll now move to Mr. Zimmer, for five minutes.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

Thank you. I have a question for Gordon.

Thank you for coming. Could you comment on the collaboration or cooperation you've already had with our government and how the pulse industry has been helped by our priority on research and innovation.

4 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Pulse Canada

Gordon Bacon

Well, we were a big player in Growing Forward 1, and before that in the agriculture policy framework, and I think we have tried to undertake some very innovative projects. One of the compliments that should go to government is that it is making some big investments in what the agriculture industry might consider high-risk ventures.

Going back to the start of our focus on health and nutrition, we felt this was an area where there was some opportunity, but it's not a market demand today. I think environmental sustainability or the carbon footprint is another emerging area, and we were able to tap into AgriFlex funding to start a program there, which goes far beyond just pulses. It's looking at a cropping systems approach and how Canadian agriculture stacks up.

I think a key point in considering Growing Forward 2 is that we're not starting from a bad spot, as we have some very good programs under way. When AgriFlexibility is not available, being that is an economic stimulus funded program, I think we want to look at taking some of the very best from AgriFlexibility and making sure it's rolled into Growing Forward 2.

The key part is that it was giving industry, such as Pulse Canada, a great deal of flexibility to identify problems and come up with projects that would address those problems. At times some of the Growing Forward 1 programs tended to be quite siloed, whereas AgriFlexibility gave industry a lot more flexibility to tackle complex problems.

I understand we have to find the balance between flexibility and precise measurements of progress, but I would look to what we're doing. AgriFlexibility was a very good program and, hopefully, we can capture some of those elements.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

To reaffirm your comments, you said it was definitely a good thing, that we've done a lot of good things, and Growing Forward 2 is going to be a carry-on of that. We're not starting from scratch is what you're saying.

4 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Pulse Canada

Gordon Bacon

Right. I think we need to look at what's worked well. Where did government get value from the investments in Growing Forward 1, and where did you see underperformance? Let's make sure we're building on the good things and trying to tighten up the things that didn't give us the performance we needed.

I think we're all going to be asked to do more with less resources, so we have to target what we're doing. And that's really based on the vision that is set for where an industry wants to go and making sure that programming is aligned with that vision.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

Thank you.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

You still have two minutes left, if somebody wants to use up the time.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Okay. I'll take that.

Mr. Bacon, I actually had the pleasure of being with you in Colombia. You talked about a pulse importer in Colombia and about some of the issues with shipping. Could you maybe just highlight that a little bit more? I know he was very vocal to me about some of the issues he had with Vancouver and the problems he had with loading ships there.

4:05 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Pulse Canada

Gordon Bacon

Yes. A tremendous opportunity provided by the Canada-Colombia trade agreement for Canadians is that we have a 15% tariff advantage over another major supplier, the United States.

The comment made at the meeting was that the 15% tariff advantage was tempered somewhat by the fact that Canada does not have a reliable transportation system. He was citing his particular experience of having a vessel waiting in Vancouver for 50 days. Anyone in the food business knows that you simply can't have that kind of unexpected delay. If you're to have that delay regularly, you're going to have to take it into account when you make your purchasing decision. I think he was emphasizing that same thing to shippers. And the Coalition of Rail Shippers has emphasized that we have to reduce the variability in our logistics system so that we're giving customers the assurance, when we make a sale, that we're going to deliver it on time.

The challenge we face is that this lack of consistency ultimately ends up costing us in invisible things like vessel demurrage; but also, a lot of things that are less visible, such as risk premiums, also get factored in. We've been told by a steamship line that it is overbooking by 40% just to make sure that its vessel sails full. As an aside, he added a comment: “And believe me, you're paying for that”.

So I think the experience in Colombia says that this is the measure of performance that we need to be driving at: Do we meet customers' needs on a regular basis, and do we do so in a cost-effective way? My conclusion and the conclusion of the Coalition of Rail Shippers would be that we can still make some progress. We have a good system, but we need to make sure that it performs at a high level consistently, quarter after quarter.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thank you.

Now we'll move to Mr. Eyking for five minutes.

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Eyking Liberal Sydney—Victoria, NS

Thank you, Chair.

It's good to be back at this committee again, and it's good to see you, Mr. Bacon.

My question is about the transportation. I know this government seems to want to talk about trade deals and getting rid of marketing boards, and how that is going to make money for farmers, but if you don't have the proper transportation links, you're not going to be able to get your product there on time, which you alluded to.

We've heard before at this committee from different farmers about the availability of rail cars and sidings for loading. Of course, you're alluding also to port efficiencies. I don't know if you use the Churchill port, but it's definitely a problem, and this problem is not just with the pulse crops. This government has had five or six years to straighten out a lot of those problems, and apparently we're still in the same situation.

You also alluded to the March 18 announcement. Finally an announcement has been made. What do you see happening if we don't get these things straightened out? Are we going to lose customers? Are we going to get less for our crops? Will certain farmers not produce in certain areas? If action is not taken, what's going to happen? How do you see it evolving?

I know you seem quite optimistic that this government is going to straighten out the transportation problems, but what's your realistic view on that and how it's going to evolve? If it doesn't evolve, how is it going to hurt the pocketbooks of farmers?

4:05 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Pulse Canada

Gordon Bacon

Any of the things that limit our market access--and I talked about tariff barriers, non-tariff barriers, and transportation being the three key areas--ultimately detract from farmers' returns. If you have a 2.5% tariff disadvantage getting into Morocco and you want to sell there, you're going to have to take 2.5% less to overcome the tariff disadvantage. I think we are talking about a comprehensive approach to identifying all of these factors undermining our competitiveness and the return that farmers get.

So what is the impact if you can't export lentils? You grow something else. I think you will see farmers shifting into growing crops for which there are fewer problems and greater certainty. Farmers, ultimately, are taking a lower price. It's about trying to wring out efficiency and improve the efficiency so that--