Evidence of meeting #80 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Melanie Vanstone  Director General, Multi-Modal and Road Safety Programs, Department of Transport
Mary Jane Ireland  Executive Director, Animal Health Directorate, Chief Veterinary Officer for Canada, Canadian Food Inspection Agency

8:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to the 80th meeting of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food.

I'll start with a few reminders.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Please note that the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entire committee.

Taking screenshots or photos of your screen is not permitted.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, October 19, 2023, the committee is resuming its study of electronic logging device requirements and animal transport.

I'd like to welcome today's witnesses.

From the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, we have Dr. Mary Jane Ireland, who is executive director of the animal health directorate and chief veterinary officer for Canada.

Welcome back, Dr. Ireland. We're going to have to set up a cot outside the room. We've had you here quite a bit, but your testimony is important, and we appreciate your willingness to indulge us here.

From the Department of Transport, we have Melanie Vanstone, who is the director general, multi-modal and road safety programs.

Welcome, Ms. Vanstone. I understand you might be starting off our testimony today.

Colleagues, we're going to allow for five minutes of opening statements. I'll be a bit flexible given that we only have two witnesses. Then I intend to do essentially two rounds of questions. It will be six minutes for every party, five for Conservatives, five for Liberals, two and half, two and half, then five and five. Then we'll break afterwards to go in camera to talk about where we want to go from here.

Ms. Vanstone, it's over to you for up to five minutes, please.

8:15 a.m.

Melanie Vanstone Director General, Multi-Modal and Road Safety Programs, Department of Transport

Good morning, Mr. Chair and committee members.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today about the federal hours of service regime for commercial drivers as it applies to the animal transport sector.

First, I'd like to start by acknowledging that the land on which we gather today is the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people since time immemorial.

In Canada, commercial vehicle safety is a shared responsibility among federal, provincial and territorial governments and commercial vehicle owners and operators. Under the Motor Vehicle Transport Act and its commercial vehicle drivers hours of service regulations, Transport Canada is responsible for certain operational matters relating to commercial motor vehicle activity, including hours of service, to mitigate risk of fatigue for commercial vehicles that cross provincial and international borders.

Provinces and territories are responsible for the enforcement of federal motor carrier operational regulations. They also have jurisdiction over intraprovincial carriers, which are also called local carriers.

Data from the national collision database indicates that, on average, 7% of all collisions in Canada between 2012 and 2021 involved a commercial motor vehicle, yet these collisions accounted for 19% of fatalities and 10% of serious injuries.

Driver fatigue is recognized in Canada and internationally as a critical risk factor associated with motor vehicle crashes. The duration of continuous wakefulness, acute sleep loss and the cumulative sleep debt contribute significantly to fatigue-related accidents.

In 1987, the federal, provincial and territorial ministers responsible for transportation and highway safety signed a memorandum of understanding to develop and implement a national safety code. As of 2023, the national safety code sets out 16 safety standards for commercial vehicles, which serve as the basis for harmonized rules and regulations governing the safe operation of commercial vehicles, drivers and motor carriers.

The national safety code is maintained by the Canadian Council of Motor Transport Administrators, which is made up of members from the federal, provincial and territorial governments. I am the board member representing the federal government.

Transport Canada's hours of service regulations were first established in 1987 and have always been harmonized to national safety code standard 9. The current rules are derived from the commercial motor vehicle driver fatigue and alertness study, which was the largest and most comprehensive over-the-road study of fatigue ever conducted in North America. It was jointly conducted by the U.S. Department of Transportation and Transport Canada.

Proposed changes to the commercial vehicle drivers hours of service regulations to mandate certified electronic logging devices, or ELDs, for federally regulated truck and bus motor carriers and drivers were first published on December 16, 2017, in Canada Gazette, part I. The final amendments were published on June 12, 2019, in Canada Gazette, part II, with a coming into force date of June 12, 2021.

For the first 18 months following that date, there was no hard enforcement of this requirement in order for industry to have additional time to adapt. It was only in January 2023 that enforcement measures began to be applied.

The introduction of ELDs did not alter existing limits to driver or working hours for commercial drivers, change the rest requirements or alter the way in which time should be reported. These have remained unchanged since they were last amended in 2007. The only change was that these hours must now be tracked electronically, which means they are less susceptible to errors or deliberate falsification.

Transport Canada officials have had meetings with representatives of the animal transport industry dating back to the initial publication of the proposed ELD requirements. These meetings have provided the opportunity to ensure that the industry is aware of the significant flexibility that already exists in the regulations. For example, this includes an exemption for operators that work within 160 kilometres of their home terminal, the ability to defer up to two hours of daily off-duty time, and the ability to increase driving time by up to two hours in adverse driving conditions.

In the event that the built-in regulatory flexibility does not meet the unique needs of a particular industry segment, motor carriers or the associations on their behalf may make an application for a regulatory exemption under section 16 of the Motor Vehicle Transport Act.

In accordance with the act, the granting of an exemption can occur when the application is found to be in the public interest and not likely to affect motor carrier safety. When an exemption is granted, it is generally very prescriptive, designed to address a specific problem and includes terms and conditions to mitigate any fatigue risk and facilitate enforcement.

Should the animal transport industry decide to pursue a section 16 exemption, Transport Canada stands ready to work with them to determine what type of regulatory relief may be warranted.

I know the committee has heard about guidance for enforcement officers. The Canadian Council of Motor Transport Administrators' application guide for hours of service helps to provide a common interpretation for enforcement officers, motor carriers and drivers to facilitate consistent enforcement and compliance with the rules. The Canadian Council of Motor Transport Administrators, or CCMTA, is aware of the request to review the guidance as it applies to animal transport, and this topic will be discussed in an upcoming meeting of its compliance and regulatory affairs program committee, on which Transport Canada sits as a member.

The committee has also heard about some comparisons with the rules in the United States.

First, it's important to note that both Canada and the U.S. require hours of service to be recorded with an ELD, with some exceptions. However, Canada currently allows longer driving hours than the U.S., longer workdays and more on-duty hours in a driver's seven-day cycle.

With respect to the 150 air-mile exemption for the agricultural sector in the U.S., this was a mandate of the U.S. Congress which allows a livestock driver to work and drive unlimited hours within 150 air miles, approximately 270 kilometres, of either the origin or destination of their load. This exemption does not align with the commercial motor vehicle driver fatigue and alertness study and has been identified by the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board as a potential contributing factor in at least one fatal accident.

To conclude, Mr. Chair, Transport Canada is dedicated to maintaining the safety of commercial drivers and all road users who share their workplace. This is why we have developed evidence-based regulations to help ensure that commercial drivers operating in Canada drive within their limits and accurately log their working hours.

We are happy to work with the animal transport sector to address any unique needs within this framework.

Thank you. I'll be happy to take questions.

8:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Thank you very much, Ms. Vanstone.

We'll now go to Dr. Ireland for about five minutes, or however long you need, Dr. Ireland.

8:25 a.m.

Dr. Mary Jane Ireland Executive Director, Animal Health Directorate, Chief Veterinary Officer for Canada, Canadian Food Inspection Agency

Thank you very much.

I'm very pleased to be here to speak with you today as you continue your consideration of electronic logging device requirements in animal transport.

The Canadian Food Inspection Agency is a science-based regulatory agency. It is dedicated to safeguarding animal health, plant health and food safety to enhance the health and well-being of Canadians, the environment and the economy. In this capacity, the CFIA administers and enforces a variety of legislation, including the Health of Animals Act and the health of animals regulations.

I'd like to take a few minutes to outline the objectives of the health of animals regulations and the federal government's role as it pertains to the transportation of animals.

The CFIA, provincial and territorial governments, producers, transporters, industry organizations and many others all have a role to play in animal welfare. Specifically, the CFIA regulates the humane transport of animals and the humane treatment of food animals in federal abattoirs. The intent of the Canadian humane transport regulations is to ensure that whoever transports animals does so without causing avoidable suffering of these animals throughout the transportation process.

In February 2019, after extensive consultation, the Government of Canada published the updated humane transport regulations. As part of this consultation process, the CFIA worked with Transport Canada to ensure these regulations do not conflict with the commercial vehicle drivers hours of service regulations. The updated humane transport regulations prescribe maximum intervals in the time between withdrawing feed and water while loading the animals to stopping once again to provide access to feed, water and rest. For example, for very young and compromised animals, the interval is up to 12 hours for pigs, 28 hours for horses and 36 hours for cattle. These provisions exist to protect animals from dehydration, exhaustion and the nutritional deficit associated with long hauls.

As these new regulations came into force in February 2020, the industry asked for time to establish best practices and make investments to enhance the number of feed, water and rest access locations across Canada. The CFIA worked extensively with industry and granted a period of two years for the implementation of the requirements specifically related to feed, water and rest times.

Humane animal transportation is complex. It is dynamic, and things can go wrong. Responding appropriately to an evolving situation requires knowledge, skill and planning ahead. That is why, as part of the updated regulations, livestock transporters are required to have contingency plans that establish measures to reduce or mitigate suffering if unforeseen delays or circumstances occur.

CFIA supports industry by providing guidance and tools to help regulated parties understand and implement the updated regulations. This includes practical tools, such as a contingency plan template that industry can adapt and use. The CFIA is aware that you can't plan for every possible scenario. This is why guidance to industry also states that, when rare circumstances occur, inspectors may use discretion in enforcing feed, water and rest times, as long as it was an unforeseen situation, actions were considered reasonable, animals were monitored and measures were taken to avoid suffering. The CFIA employs highly skilled veterinarians, veterinary inspectors and other inspectors who administer and enforce the humane transport regulations. They understand that flexibility may be needed at times.

The CFIA has also issued guidance and training. They have these in place to ensure consistent inspector discretion regarding feed, water and rest time intervals, in order to address cases that are in frequent occurrences and due to unforeseen circumstances out of the regulated party's control. These include situations such as the breakdown of a conveyance, a traffic accident, an unexpected road closure when no other options for stopping are available, and unforeseen weather events. In these circumstances, the regulated party would need to demonstrate that decisions were made in the best interest of the animals and animal welfare.

The CFIA monitors compliance with the regulations by conducting routine inspections at strategic locations, including points of entry into Canada, federal and provincial abattoirs, assembly centres and roadside blitzes, as well as following up on reports of non-compliance as needed.

Mr. Chair, I hope this provides a general overview of CFIA's role in humane animal transport.

I welcome any questions the committee may have.

Thank you very much.

8:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Thank you very much, Dr. Ireland. It did provide a helpful overview.

We'll get right to questions.

We're going to start with Mr. Steinley for up to six minutes, please.

8:30 a.m.

Conservative

Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Just so people at home who are watching this morning know what we are asking in this motion in this study, it's not about changing the amount of time an animal is on a trailer. That's not what this is about. We realize that the safety of animals is paramount to everyone, and I think we all realize that at this committee. The 12 hours, 24 hours, 28 hours, 38 hours are not the issue with the minister right now. What is causing some issues is the electronic logging devices. We learned at the last committee meeting that once those trucks start going six to eight miles per hour, that logging device turns on, and some unforeseen things happen.

During the fall calf run, truck drivers are sitting at stockyards for longer times, and that time is added to their ELDs. What we heard from the transport alliance is that, through the guidelines and through the enforcement, which is done provincially—thank you, Ms. Vanstone; I realize that—there is just a little bit more certainty. When we have a lot of [Inaudible—Editor] around agriculture, they want a little bit more certainty.

Therefore, when we're talking about section 76, they're just asking if the consideration of going over that time could be added into section 76 of the guiding principles so that if an unforeseen situation happens and a driver goes over the time to get their animals to that destination, if they stop, that could be taken into consideration. They're just asking that we add that certainty into that section.

Ms. Vanstone, can you comment on that, please?

8:30 a.m.

Director General, Multi-Modal and Road Safety Programs, Department of Transport

Melanie Vanstone

Mr. Chair, I'm happy to comment on that.

First of all, I would note that guidance is developed collaboratively through the Canadian Council of Motor Transport Administrators with the federal government and the provincial and territorial governments. We have brought to the attention of the compliance and review committee, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, that the animal transport industry is interested in having a review of the guidance as it pertains to the industry's unique needs. That will be happening. There will be discussions happening. Again, it's not specifically within the control of Transport Canada to make changes to the guidance.

That said, it's very important to distinguish between foreseeable and unforeseeable circumstances. Section 76 is really very focused on circumstances, adverse circumstances, that arise that are not foreseeable.

What I would say is that loading and unloading would be an area where there should be contingencies built in for typical types of delays.

8:30 a.m.

Conservative

Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK

We had some groups here, and I'm not going to put the livestock system on trial because they are very well.... Logistically, they work out quite...and they have built in delays in that already. I'm not going to debate that with you, because the systems they have in place are quite good logistically. A lot of these companies have time built in for loading and unloading. That's one example. However, accidents on the roads, delays when they're crossing the borders, things like that.... Those things do happen, and they build that in. I think the system is trying to be worked as well as it can be, but there are unforeseen circumstances.

I noticed that in April 2022, the Minister of Transport exempted truck drivers transporting fertilizer products between the provinces of Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan during spring planting. If we give exemptions for things like that.... Fertilizer can stay on the truck a bit longer than animals. Obviously, transporting animals is more difficult than transporting fertilizer. I am wondering how that exemption came into play. Is it just because of certain situations? Fertilizer, maybe, was harder to get then. Is that an unforeseen circumstance? Is that something that we could look towards for something like the livestock industry?

8:30 a.m.

Director General, Multi-Modal and Road Safety Programs, Department of Transport

Melanie Vanstone

I'm happy to answer that.

The exemption for the fertilizer industry is one of the exemptions under section 16 of the Motor Vehicle Transport Act. The industry applied to Transport Canada with a detailed application regarding its unique needs for regulatory relief. It would have provided us with information to be able to assess the impacts of that exemption and to ensure that it was in the public interest and not affecting motor carrier safety.

8:35 a.m.

Conservative

Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK

I'm sorry. I'm running out of time.

With that exemption, could drivers go a little bit over their hours of service?

8:35 a.m.

Director General, Multi-Modal and Road Safety Programs, Department of Transport

Melanie Vanstone

I would have to review the exemption to remind myself of the details. The details of the exemption would be set out. I do have the high-level summary.

8:35 a.m.

Conservative

Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK

You can bring that back to the committee. It would be great if you could.

8:35 a.m.

Director General, Multi-Modal and Road Safety Programs, Department of Transport

Melanie Vanstone

Yes. I'll be happy to send to the committee the information on all of our section 16 exemptions.

8:35 a.m.

Conservative

Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK

Does the minister make the final decision, with the guidance of Transport, on an addition to subsection 76(1) or is that done by the committee you talked about? Or does the minister have final sign-off on that?

8:35 a.m.

Director General, Multi-Modal and Road Safety Programs, Department of Transport

Melanie Vanstone

Section 76 is part of the regulations. Any changes to section 76 would need to go through a regulatory process.

There's a proposal made to Treasury Board. It's published in the Canada Gazette. There are comments. The guidance has to be consistent with section 76 and what the parameters are that are set out in that.

8:35 a.m.

Conservative

Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK

Would the minister have the final sign-off and have to sign off on it?

8:35 a.m.

Director General, Multi-Modal and Road Safety Programs, Department of Transport

Melanie Vanstone

The guidance or the regulations...?

8:35 a.m.

Conservative

Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK

The guidance....

8:35 a.m.

Director General, Multi-Modal and Road Safety Programs, Department of Transport

Melanie Vanstone

The guidance is developed by the federal, provincial and territorial governments working through the Canadian Council of Motor Transport Administrators. It would be that body that would finalize the guidance.

8:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Thank you very much, Mr. Steinley.

8:35 a.m.

Conservative

Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK

Thank you.

8:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Kody Blois

Thank you, Ms. Vanstone.

Mr. MacDonald, we'll go over to you for six minutes.

8:35 a.m.

Liberal

Heath MacDonald Liberal Malpeque, PE

Thank you, Chair.

I want to go to the CFIA for a second.

I just want to know if on section 16 there have been asks for exemptions since 2020 when these new regulations were put in place.

8:35 a.m.

Executive Director, Animal Health Directorate, Chief Veterinary Officer for Canada, Canadian Food Inspection Agency

Dr. Mary Jane Ireland

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I need a bit more clarity from the member.

8:35 a.m.

Liberal

Heath MacDonald Liberal Malpeque, PE

You talked a little bit about section 16 and exemptions.

Was it you? I'm sorry.

I was just wondering if there have been any exemptions since 2020.