Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) Committee on March 29th, 2007

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Once again, this is more of a technical amendment, Mr. Chair, and I'd like to move it with a slight variation.

Just give me one second; I want to make sure I get the numbers absolutely right for Mr. Jean.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

We'll suspend for a minute or so.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Let's reconvene.

For those who would understand this, it's a good thing this is not Panmunjom.

Mr. Cullen.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Just as the room comes to order, Chair, let me say we're at the very tail end of many hours of meetings. Let's not have any more breaks. Let's just push on and finish this. I think this is what people are expecting us to do. Let's get it right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Mr. Jean's going to be argumentative.

Go ahead, briefly.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

We found two errors so far in the last two sections. Because we took a break, we were all able to find compromises. Let's get the act right. Let's not just push something through that Canadians don't want. Let's find something that Canadians do want.

[An hon. member]

Hear, hear.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Mr. McGuinty, on amendment L-27.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Yes, let me move this amendment then, which I believe is our last technical amendment to correct the bill, Mr. Chair, given the changes that have come before.

After the word “following”, it should now read, “93(1), subsection 103.05(2), subsection 103.07(2)(b), or section 167, 177 or 326”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Is that clear, or shall I reread it? Nobody needs to reread it?

You just like me hearing me say it. That's fine.

It's that Bill C-30, in clause 34, be amended by replacing line 29 on page 29 with the following:

93(1), subsection 103.05(2), subsection 103.07(2)(b), or section 167, 177 or 326

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Can we hear from the department, please, Mr. Chairman?

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Mr. Moffet.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I'm not catching up. We have two new sections added. I haven't had any opportunity to see it, but it is a technical amendment.

I know we want to move along, Mr. Cullen, but the reality is, let's get it right. It's very important.

[John Moffet]

My understanding of the two additional clauses that have been added are that proposed subsection 103.05(2), which is the authority regarding the setting of sectoral carbon budgets for LIEs, and proposed paragraph 103.07(2)(b), which is about the air emissions standards.... Both of these additions make sense to me, given that this authority is intended to be as generally applicable as possible to allow for some forms of administrative discrimination.

I would note, however, that there are at least three other regulatory authorities that have been created by the amendments passed in the last couple of days to which this authority could also be extended, should the members choose. Those include proposed section 94.1, which was the emissions trading regulatory authority in amendment L-20; proposed subsection 103.02(4), which was the authority to set national, sectoral and individual carbon budgets introduced under amendment L-21.1; and proposed subsection 103.02(5), which again was in amendment L-21.1, in regard to regulating the setting of individual carbon deficits.

Should the members choose, this authority could be extended to those, in my view.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I don't think I got the last section correctly. I'm sorry; it was my fault. I was writing them too.

[John Moffet]

The last one to which I referred was proposed subsection 103.02(5), which is the authority to regulate the way in which individual carbon deficits would be set.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Mr. Godfrey.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I wonder if I could be allowed to pick up on that and make a friendly amendment, for completeness' sake, that we would add the references Mr. Moffet has just made.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

So that is being added as a friendly amendment to L-27.

Shall I read it again, or does everybody have all the numbers?

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I just need another 60 or 70 seconds. I'm sure the other members need the same amount of time to go through it. There are a lot of numbers here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

Mr. Moffet, do you have a comment while Mr. Jean is doing that?

[John Moffet]

Mr. Chair, for the sake of clarity, if you go back to the Bill C-30 provision, clause 34 starts out by saying, “A regulation made under”.

The authorities that were introduced in some of the Liberal and NDP amendments, to which we just referred, some of them refer to regulations, some of them refer to standards, some of them simply say the minister shall do such and such. My legal colleagues suggest that perhaps this should read “A regulation or instrument”, given that the precise status of some of the authorities that have been introduced in the last couple of days are unclear. It's unclear as to whether they are regulatory authorities or not.

[The Chair, Conservative, Laurie Hawn]

If somebody chose to move it, that would be a separate amendment. We could expand the current amendment to include that as another friendly amendment.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Moffet, if we were to withdraw, then, the reference to 103.07(2)(b), would that address your instrument problem?

[John Moffet]

Well, 103.02(4) and 103.05(2), the setting of national sectoral and individual carbon budgets, neither of those actually uses the word “regulation”. They require the minister to set those. Again, the status of that, in terms of whether that's a regulatory authority, an order, what is it that's not clear in the amendments at the moment, that's the basic point I'm trying to provide.