Evidence of meeting #81 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was parks.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
But we still don't know what “low-impact” is. I was told that there are no exact details, no discussion of when low-impact becomes high-impact.
10:10 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Parks Canada
I want to make it clear that there is lots of other legislation that defines a standard but doesn't provide a definition of the standard, per se. This is not uncommon. I just want to make sure that that's clear.
In our case, if you look at the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, there are no definitions in that act. This is not uncommon. But what we're going to do—
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
10:10 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Parks Canada
Yes, but this legislation limits the type of exploration activities to “low-impact”. We will work as an agency, as we've done elsewhere in Canada, in defining some of the elements in the legislation, working with partners, and putting in place an MOU.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Okay. I'd like to move on.
I have two final questions. In the presentation, it says “experience Sable Island”. We all agree that this is an ecologically sensitive area. Can you define “experience Sable Island”?
10:10 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Parks Canada
Yes, through the management plan we will have the opportunity to consult and engage Canadians in defining the nature of visitor activities on Sable Island. I want to reassure the committee that we have a lot of experience with sensitive ecosystems. Think of Gwaii Haanas Natural Park Reserve. We have a watchman program there, for example. There are other places in Canada where there are very sensitive ecosystems. We've been successful in providing unique opportunities while ensuring ecological integrity.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Could you table with the committee what you're thinking about in this respect?
10:10 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Parks Canada
I would rather wait. The management plan will be tabled in Parliament and I think that is the appropriate instrument.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht
You're a little over time, but we'll come back to you if there's time for a second round.
We move now to Madame Quach for five minutes.
10:10 a.m.
NDP
Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would also like to thank the witnesses for providing us with more information with regard to this bill.
My first question is on low impact activities.
Since this expression has not yet been defined, I would like to know whether you have any kind of idea of what would be included in that category. When you move equipment across sand dunes, or when you conduct some kind of activity during mating season, would that be a low impact type of activity? Activities which, during peak tourist season, might damage habitats or ecosystems, would those be considered as being low impact? Have you determined which activities are low impact and which are not?
10:10 a.m.
Director, Parks Establishment, Parks Canada
I will express myself in English in the interest of being more concise.
Again, to go back to the 1999 program, not just to theorize, what was fundamental to it was that in a seismic program, you have two things: a sound source and a receiving device.
In terms of the sound sources, again I point out that there were two trucks that emitted a source down through the surface. In fact, under the environmental assessment, it was determined that the sound source that went down was less disruptive than the sound of the engine in the truck.
The second thing is that when they put the sound.... It's a platform about the size of a large kitchen table. When they put it on the sand to emit the sound down, they put a barrier between the sound source and the sand to make sure that no hydraulic oil or anything would seep out onto the beach.
On top of that, in the truck they used a form of oil for the truck that was biodegradable within a month. They kept the two trucks right on the outside of the beach so that they did not traverse into the foredunes, the sand dunes, any of the important wildlife vegetation or habitat.
In terms of the receiving devices, which are geophones attached by a cord, 64 lines went across the island north to south. In laying those lines with the geophones, what they did, as I mentioned before, was alter it to avoid, as much as they could, habitat, nesting areas, and things like that. The geophones themselves were buried or put into the sand a foot. So you were going a foot down to put the geophone in place to receive the sound.
In addition, as I mentioned, they avoided.... In fact, the company had proposed some times that conflicted with the time of nesting, the use of the island by migratory birds, and things like that. So the timing under which they undertook the program was restricted.
In addition, there were 18 personnel used to support the program. They were also directed that while on the island they were to avoid the seals, the horses, things like that. They were confined to using the on-island facilities.
So as you go through the environmental assessment that was done, plus what was done in terms of the program, I hope that gives you a good feel for the scope and scale of the activity and what was done in terms of low impact.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Anne Minh-Thu Quach NDP Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC
Thank you.
Now I would like us to talk about other parks which would be affected by this bill.
Mr. Latourelle, you referred to section 14 and the community of Field in British Columbia. You said that changes would be made and added to services. Amongst other things, you talked about a gas station. What are these other services you alluded to?
You also said that many people were consulted. You talked about locals and businesses, but did you also consult with environmental organizations, including with regard to building a gas station?
As well, were any impacts on ecosystems assessed?
10:15 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Parks Canada
The changes contained in the bill are the result of wide consultations carried out within the community plan which was developed for Field. Environmental groups, Canadians and community residents had the opportunity to express their opinions. I can assure you that, in this case, there was no negative feedback.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht
Thank you.
Sorry, your time is up. Seven minutes can go by quickly.
Ms. Rempel, you have five minutes.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Centre-North, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My opposition colleagues have had some really good questions today, and I'd like to cede my time to them.
I'm giving this to Ms. Leslie.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS
Thank you. That's a lovely surprise.
I didn't give anything like a preamble at the beginning; I just jumped in to ask questions because there's a lot to ask.
But I do want to take a moment, Mr. Latourelle, to give a lot of credit to Parks Canada on their consultation on Sable Island. Your team has done an extraordinary job over a very long time in Nova Scotia. As you well know, the initial reaction from the public was not favourable. They were wondering whether we were going to turn Sable Island into a theme park.
This island is really important to people. They want to protect it so much that a lot of trust had to be built with Parks Canada. I think your team did an excellent job. It took a long time, but they did an excellent job.
10:15 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Parks Canada
That's why it took a long time. We needed to build relationships one by one.
Again, Kevin and his team have done exceptional work here, and I'm sure that in a hundred years from now people will say the same thing.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS
I agree.
When I look at this bill, I have my own concerns, but there's also the people who contact me. I got a letter from two grade 8 students yesterday. These grade 8 students are saying, and also people in the community, that it's the surface exploration that concerns them—it concerns me as well—and it's also the drilling under the island.
I want to turn to the drilling under the island for a bit. Help me to understand this. There's a one nautical mile exclusion, so in theory a company or industry could have a platform at 1.1 nautical miles, drill down, and then do horizontal drilling under the island. This is for natural gas.
First, am I right, and, second, why are there not environmental concerns with this?
10:20 a.m.
Director, Parks Establishment, Parks Canada
To answer your question, the area beyond the one nautical mile buffer zone is under the authority of the Offshore Petroleum Board. The area is administered and managed, as it has been for 25 years, under the accord implementation acts. It is possible that companies can bring to the board requests to follow their process to secure the rights to explore, develop, whatever, but as per the board's policy.
When it comes to Sable Island National Park Reserve and the activities beyond, it's like any other national park or national park reserve in Canada. There are activities going on outside of these national parks and national park reserves, be it logging, mining, or other activities. Parks Canada does not have an ability to control them. We administer the national park itself.
When it comes to decisions on areas outside of that, we get involved in the process that the responsible authorities have put in place. If there is a proposal for something beyond the boundaries of Sable Island National Park Reserve that is conducted by the Offshore Petroleum Board, we would seek to bring to the attention of these reviews our knowledge and expertise of Sable Island National Park Reserve, its natural and cultural features, and its importance.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
Megan Leslie NDP Halifax, NS
In thinking about the next witnesses to come, it's apparent that we really need the Offshore Petroleum Board here as well. I think the questions we should pose to them are about their process and the guarantees that have been put in place here.
10:20 a.m.
Director, Parks Establishment, Parks Canada
That's correct.
As we say, we will be administering the national park reserve under the Canada National Parks Act. The accord implementation acts continue to apply, although with the restrictions for Sable Island that Bill S-15 has.