Evidence of meeting #33 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was personal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Don't get mad at me, because I know you really get passionate about this.
But like, who cares if somebody knows I'm a Protestant or a Catholic? Why can't we say to government, “You can collect what you want, but don't let it out”, and keep it as simple as that?
I guess I'm like Mr. Tilson: I see, on the one hand, this bureaucracy just looming, and I shudder when I think about the implications.
4:35 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, The University of Western Ontario, As an Individual
How much money do you have in your current account?
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
4:35 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, The University of Western Ontario, As an Individual
Have you ever had psychiatric care?
4:35 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, The University of Western Ontario, As an Individual
What medications are you on?
4:35 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, The University of Western Ontario, As an Individual
Do you care?
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Do I care?
Okay, the money part--I don't like that.
4:35 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, The University of Western Ontario, As an Individual
Oh, you don't, eh? Isn't that interesting--well, well, well.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
I understand that. But nobody's ever disclosed that. If they would, I think I....
So they're collecting this stuff. I think some of us have a phobia about it. There's Homeland Security, yes, and so on. But it's kind of like climbing a hill because it's there: we have this technology so that we can collect all this stuff.
Let me just finish this last thought. Can you give me cited examples of where it has just wreaked havoc having this information? Because if we're going to change all these laws--I'm not saying we shouldn't, I'm just playing the devil's advocate here--then why? Why are we doing it? Why can't we just say to government, “You can collect this stuff, but don't you dare let it go”?
4:35 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, The University of Western Ontario, As an Individual
In many ways, that's what we would like to do.
Do you believe you have a right to privacy as an individual?
4:35 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, The University of Western Ontario, As an Individual
Is it protected under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?
4:35 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, The University of Western Ontario, As an Individual
Is it a fundamental human right of Canadians?
4:35 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, The University of Western Ontario, As an Individual
So you have three things right there. No one can function without privacy. There's never been a society on the face of the earth that didn't use privacy for certain practices, such as sexual relations.
I had a great story from a very open mother Tuesday morning in Vancouver, who told me that her daughter--16 and brilliant--asked her, “How often do you and Dad have sex?” She looked at the kid and said, “That's private.”
At least I didn't get into your sex life.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
But I won't see on the front page of The Globe and Mail that somebody found out that I had, you know, psychiatric treatment, and that they've let this all go.
4:35 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, The University of Western Ontario, As an Individual
But that's why we have laws in place.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Exactly. We have these laws. If we're going to toughen them up....
I want to go one step further. We talked about past governments. I think I know the answer to this, although you might not like the answer. I listened to what you were saying in terms of Rock and Manley. Did they change any of the privacy laws?
4:35 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, The University of Western Ontario, As an Individual
Absolutely.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
But I thought this thing was archaic and hadn't been changed in 25 years.
4:35 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, The University of Western Ontario, As an Individual
No, you see, what they were doing was privacy law for the private sector. We have very strong privacy laws for the whole private sector that, in Alberta and British Columbia.... One of the people sitting beside me was the assistant commissioner for the private sector in Alberta. She and her colleagues did a terrific job of making the law meaningful for residents in Alberta in terms of the private sector. Why? Because they had a hell of a good law. And that's what we don't have here at the federal level. We have a really rotten law.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
I know, but we have....
I'm going to talk to you about the average joe. I mean, your buddy wanted to throw a glass at you because...why? I forget.