Evidence of meeting #48 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was campaign.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

David Campbell  As an Individual
Andrew Kumpf  As an Individual
Marilyn Dixon  As an Individual
Cynthia Downey  As an Individual
Steve Halicki  As an Individual
Darren Roberts  As an Individual

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

You're debating with me whether or not what I am saying is relevant, and I've explained to you it is, sir, so I'm going to proceed. Thank you.

Now, if a riding association or a candidate for an official agent, more specifically, did not receive an original invoice with their charge and their GST on it, even though you're not experts in the Canada Elections Act, did you have a problem that someone else was going to take your detailed invoice and then hand-write “plus GST” and then put the total on a photocopy?

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

I have the discretion, as the chair, to deal with it at the chair's discretion. I'm going to deal with it after I finish with the point I'm currently making. So I'm going to ask--

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON

No, I would like to raise my point of order.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

I'm sure you do, but the chair is going to deal with that as soon as I finish with this matter. I don't want to lose the train of thought here.

The problem I'm trying to understand is that the invoice that an official agent would have to file with their return would in fact not be an original invoice and would appear not to be a valid document for purposes of filing a return. Were you aware of that? Did you think that maybe they would need an individual invoice like this to be able to properly file an election expenses return?

11:30 a.m.

As an Individual

Marilyn Dixon

We produced the invoice for the official agents and for the Conservative Party. We have no knowledge, or had no knowledge at the time, of what they were going to do with it or if candidates required it.That information was not provided to us.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Okay, I accept that. The decision to handle it was the decision of your client.

11:30 a.m.

As an Individual

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Thank you.

Now, Mr. Del Mastro, do you still have a point of order, sir?

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON

Yes, my point of order is, as I said, with respect to relevance, Mr. Chair.

I believe that by raising what you just raised, you are trying to put something into the record—quite tactfully, mind you—or to establish something in the record as an independent party, which you hope to raise as an issue at a future point, or to have your friends raise as a future point, which, quite frankly, is entirely irrelevant. You have an original copy of an invoice that breaks this out and demonstrates that it is in fact identical.

I don't know about you, but sometimes I submit claims for expenses, and what I will use to back those up sometimes is a credit card statement. But I don't provide things like my credit card number with that claim when I submit it. I also will occasionally block out purchases that I've made, things like my mortgage or items like that, and sometimes my balance or what I'm expected to pay on my credit card and what my last payment was. I don't believe those are relevant to the person who's looking for a copy of an invoice to prove that I have paid for something or incurred an expense. I think any reasonable person who looks at this would look at it and say yes, there it is, it's identical.

I know what you're trying to establish, and I think it's a very underhanded way of doing what you are not entitled to do. I question you about the relevance of it because I think you know very well what you are looking to establish, and I'm offended by it. You're trying to say that someone.... Well, I'll leave it at that; but I know what you're trying to establish. It's an underhanded way of trying to act impartially, and you're doing anything but.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

First of all, it is not a point of order; it's a point of debate.

The issue that has been raised also raises another question. The member will well know that it is contrary to the rules of parliamentary practice and procedure to impute motives to any member for what they have done. It is totally unparliamentary, sir, and you should consider an apology for that.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON

I can assure you there'll be no apology.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

You can assure me there will be no apology. Okay, that's your choice, sir.

I've ruled that it is not a point of order; it's a point of debate. It's obviously of relevance that in filing an official document with the Government of Canada or any of its agencies, an original invoice is required. Based on the documents that I have received, it appears that the invoices used by candidates turned out to be altered invoices, I think, as Ms. Dixon had indicated, and she had no idea who had prepared them.

Is that the case?

11:35 a.m.

As an Individual

Marilyn Dixon

That's correct.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Thank you.

Now we'll move on to the next person.

Madame Lavallée, please, for five minutes.

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

Thank you.

I would like to know exactly who Retail Media is. You talked about this a bit in your presentation. If I understand correctly, at the time of the last election, you were the president of Retail Media. Is that correct?

11:35 a.m.

As an Individual

David Campbell

That's correct.

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

Who is the president of Retail Media now?

11:35 a.m.

As an Individual

David Campbell

There actually is no current president of Retail Media.

August 13th, 2008 / 11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

Right. What is Mr. Kumpf's title at Retail Media?

11:35 a.m.

As an Individual

Andrew Kumpf

The current title?

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

I would like to know what your position is.

11:35 a.m.

As an Individual

Andrew Kumpf

Vice-president, broadcast operations.

11:35 a.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

Mr. Ruby, are you counsel for Retail Media?

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Madame, I introduced all of the witnesses with their complete titles. I also introduced Mr. Ruby as the legal counsel for Retail Media and stated that he cannot address the committee, but he may advise his clients.

Maybe we should move on to your next question.