Evidence of meeting #48 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was campaign.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
They won't tell us anything.
Mr. Martin is giving some testimony. Could I hear that, please?
11:40 a.m.
An hon. member
The point is that others are doing the same thing.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Mr. Campbell, I think you made the statement that some Elections Canada officials came to ask you some questions. I'd like you to elaborate on those particular discussions and any other discussions you had with Elections Canada.
11:45 a.m.
As an Individual
That occurred around two years after the election. At that time we engaged the services of Mr. Ruby to assist us. The entire records of those meetings are in the Elections Canada report.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
I understand that. My question is whether you recall what was said to you by any of the officials from Elections Canada at that time or any other time.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Campbell, some of us who watched the sponsorship scandal carefully learned a little bit about the advertising industry in terms of markups, fees, and charges. What was your company's share of the $1.3 million that the Conservative Party spent beyond their legal limits in the last federal election campaign? What was your markup on $1.3 million worth of placements?
11:45 a.m.
As an Individual
I'm concerned about the association with other matters. I'm prepared to talk about our dealings, etc., and then respond to your question specifically.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
11:45 a.m.
As an Individual
I will tell you a couple of things. First of all, we consider our fees with all of our clients to be commercially sensitive information.
11:45 a.m.
As an Individual
What happens is that traditionally 85% of advertising expenditures go to the media. There is a remainder of 15% that is for fees, which includes media production, a whole bunch of services. So the total fee that's traditional--and this is for private sector advertisers as well as political parties--is 15%. Our portion was a small portion of that. There were other fees involved, i.e. creative production.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I'm not trying to say that you would advise your client to do something illegal so you would get 15% of the $1.3 million. I'm not making that argument. What I would like to ask when it comes to penetration, though, is if you would advise your client--any kind of client, public or private sector--that if you want to get this message across, you need this number of rating points to say that you've really saturated that particular target area in a way that your message penetrated?
One of the things about the Canada Elections Act is that to claim a local expense it has to be at fair market commercial value; it can't be exaggerated or inflated. Yet you have three ridings here that you worked on with your client--Trinity-Spadina, Toronto-Danforth and Vaughan--all clustered in the same general area, and radio ads don't recognize electoral boundaries. They don't stop at the edge of Trinity--Spadina and not creep into Toronto--Danforth. So your clients were billed, by your invoice, $49,900 for Trinity--Spadina, $19,000 for Vaughan, and $29,000 for Danforth.
What is the real market value, then, of getting the Conservative Party message into those three ridings if you yourself say that you can't avoid the spillover from one riding to another? Why are they charged such hugely disproportionate amounts?
11:45 a.m.
As an Individual
First of all, as we indicated before, we can only really speak to what the total amount of the media buy was.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
No, you've said you invoiced each individual riding for amounts as well. You can't have it both ways, sir.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Excuse me, but the translators are having some problems when it's rapid-fire speaking. I think what we should do, once the question is posed, is allow the witness to answer and then we'll move on. But let's respect the translators here, as they're having some difficulty.
So perhaps you could repeat your question, Mr. Martin.
11:45 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Why the wildly disproportionate charges from one riding to the next, when you yourself and Madam Dixon did testify that these invoices did in fact come from Retail Media? One parent invoice went to the party and individual invoices went to each riding association. How is it fair market value to charge $50,000 for this service in one riding and right next door charge $19,000? How is that the commercial fair market value of that product?
11:50 a.m.
As an Individual
Again, if I might respond, our advice to the party.... We were not responsible. It was the party that told us what ridings were to be involved.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
But you issued invoices. Were you an unwitting dupe? Were you sucked in by the party to something that was untoward or wrong?
11:50 a.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!