Evidence of meeting #48 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was campaign.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:10 p.m.
As an Individual
I can only reiterate that we asked to make sure it was within the maximum limit. We've been advised that we're not really permitted to discuss matters beyond that.
I will add a couple of things. There were only a couple of conversations at which counsel for the Conservative Party was present, and my recollection of them from two and a half years ago is a little bit hazy.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
Just to conclude, the contract for $1.3 million was made with the Conservative Party of Canada, which eventually decided how much money would be allocated to each particular riding and candidate. It sent the list of names, with figures attached, to you. You in turn decided how much advertising would be allocated on the basis of the information you received from the Conservative Party of Canada. Is that true?
12:15 p.m.
As an Individual
We indeed transferred advertising from the Conservative Party of Canada to the official agents of the candidates.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
To go back to what you just said, in information we received yesterday, the official agents told this committee they had no contact with you, you had not given them invoices, and the invoices came not from you but from the Conservative Party of Canada. Furthermore, when we look at these invoices today, many of them have been doctored with a photocopier.
Is this fraud? Do we need a special forensic done on this to determine who altered these? You must be disappointed as a company to see your invoices being doctored by the Conservative Party and its agents.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
12:15 p.m.
As an Individual
We provided our invoices to our client on the basis of what we had spent on its behalf. What happened to that subsequently we don't really know.
August 13th, 2008 / 12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Again, thank you to the witnesses.
I'd like to go back to where Mr. Hubbard was. I've never heard of a photocopier being termed a method of “doctoring” an invoice. I thought it made a copy of an invoice, one that, in my mind, is still.... In fact—on a point of order to the chair, because I knew that's where Mr. Hubbard just got cued to go—that's where the chair was intending to go.
I want to raise a couple of things with you.
The chair has indicated that he's going to review this and seek some advice as to whether $37,383.09 plus GST equals $39,999.91. I didn't use the education I got at university in finance and accounting or economics to determine this; I used probably about grade four math and was able to determine that 7% GST is about $2,616.82.
I used my BlackBerry, actually; I'm slipping a little. I used to do this stuff in my head, but I cheated and used my BlackBerry on it.
I came to $39,999.91.
I used an earlier example. I said that this week, for example, I'm incurring some expenses to be here. Everyone is. This is quite costly, actually, this little process. One of the things I'm going to incur is a hotel receipt. On my hotel receipt, when I submit my credit card statement, I may block a few things out: my whole credit card number—I don't see any reason they need that—and they don't need to know that I bought ceramic tiles at Home Depot and installed them myself, which I can assure you I won't be doing again in the near future. But that's it.
I will show them the part pertaining to my hotel, which I believe is materially consistent with the hotel receipt that I will receive. I haven't materially altered it one way or the other, not as far as the House is concerned. Visa might look at it and say, “Hey, that's different; that's not exactly the invoice we gave you.” But for the purposes of the House of Commons, which is going to review my expenses, I haven't altered it one bit. It's perfectly acceptable. It's saying, here's the expense that I incurred, and here's where it is on my invoice. That's exactly what's happened.
And do you know what? When I compare this page to this, I look up York South—Weston and I come out with $37,383.09. When I go to the page to the right, it's identical: it says York South—Weston, $37,383.09.
Would you consider that to be materially changed? With respect to York South—Weston, did it change?
12:15 p.m.
As an Individual
All we can really say is that the dollar amount, as we indicated in our opening statement, was identical.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
Identical. Oh, my goodness, identical. And 7% GST—for the purposes of the chair—brings it to $39,999.91. Wow!
Of course now, as Mr. Goodyear has pointed out, that GST amount would only be $1,869, a little more than $700 less. That means the candidates will be able to spend that additional amount, and I'll know that my colleagues across the way will look to do that as they seek to keep their election spending within their election limit as indicated by Elections Canada—as we have done, as you've indicated. No one has ever contended that we went beyond any election limit. Certainly all of the statements that we made for the ridings had these invoices in them, as you provided them to us, and we followed the guidelines put out by Jean-Pierre Kingsley.
In fact, in all honesty, I can't understand why you're here today. We know there's been some concern raised in the House about mandate creep for the committees. I would argue, quite frankly, that we've had no testimony whatsoever today with respect to public office-holders.
Did you get any questions today with respect to public office-holders? Do you remember if anybody asked you about the conduct of a public office-holder?
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Thank you.
Mr. Del Mastro has raised an interesting question about how 7% times the gross amount should give you the total invoice, but maybe he didn't understand. In a riding such as Beauséjour or Malpeque or Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, the HST today actually is 13%. So not seeing the invoice that goes—
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
Mr. Chair, you're from Ontario. Do you understand how GST works in Ontario? You're a chartered accountant.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Yes, but I haven't seen the invoices to the other provinces that are included in the full one. They should not be 7%. In fact, this official invoice of RMI says: here's the amount purchased, plus federal GST—with our GST number here—being 7%. That's not exactly right. It's not exactly right, and I will explain it to you after the meeting. Okay?
We're going to move on to Madame Lavallée.
12:20 p.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
You have already answered the question I was going to ask you, but I want to be sure of the answer.
Earlier, Mr. Proulx asked whether you were contacted by the Conservative Party before testifying about the subject this committee is examining. I would like you to tell me whether you were contacted, directly or through an intermediary.
Mrs. Dixon, could you answer first? Were you contacted by the Conservative Party?
12:20 p.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
You were not contacted at all, not even through an intermediary?
12:20 p.m.
As an Individual
Exactly the same. I have not been contacted by anybody from the party or any intermediary.
12:20 p.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Even though you still do business regularly with the Conservative Party?
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Please, colleagues, Madame Lavallée has the floor. I know it's after 12 o'clock, but a number of members continue to put down their names to ask questions. We have two more people after Madame Lavallée, so please be patient. I want to complete this, but we need to hear the questions. The witnesses need to hear the questions clearly and the members need to hear the answers, so perhaps we could keep it down.
12:20 p.m.
Bloc
