Evidence of meeting #36 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Do we want to leave it implicit that it's concerning this matter? Is that self-evident? Or should we put that in there?
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
Michelle Simson Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
It's in the motion, so I think it's fairly clear. I don't know that I want to keep driving that point.
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Fair enough.
This is a subamendment to the amendment. So it would read, after the word “recommendations”....
I'm sorry, Mr. Del Mastro?
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
A ventriloquist. All right.
The amendment starts off with “and that the committee...bring a new act by March 30”. Then we have to add the words “and that the minister be invited to reappear before the committee before November 30, 2009”.
The minister is invited, not ordered. The committee cannot order a member or a minister to appear. Only the Speaker could do that. The Speaker could order a minister to appear.
Madam Freeman.
10:40 a.m.
Bloc
Carole Freeman Bloc Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC
I just want to ask something.
Ms. Simson would like the Minister to be invited to appear before the committee before November 30. That is what she is asking?
10:40 a.m.
Bloc
Carole Freeman Bloc Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC
But he is not obliged to accept the invitation. Is that correct?
10:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
We certainly can invite anybody we want to appear before the committee--
10:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
--but we cannot compel certain persons, such as ministers or members of Parliament. For the public at large, for instance, you could issue a subpoena in fact, and that would force them to come.
10:40 a.m.
Bloc
Carole Freeman Bloc Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC
Yes, I understand that, but for a minister, what is the--
10:40 a.m.
Bloc
Carole Freeman Bloc Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC
What is the procedure if we want Mr. Milliken to...?
10:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
If the committee feels it cannot complete its work without having response or input from the minister, and it's viewed that the minister is trying to frustrate the committee's work, the committee could pass a motion for the chair to go to the House and table a report requesting that the Speaker order the minister to appear by such-and-such a date.
Mr. Dechert.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON
On a point of order, this meeting has gone on for a while. I confess I'm getting older in years and my short-term memory is getting shorter with each meeting of this committee, but I believe that some time ago in this meeting we had a vote to move to Mr. Martin's motion and to end the discussion on whether or not the committee was going to ask the minister to appear again.
I think we've already dealt with that question. There have been multiple circular arguments and tangential discussions that have very little relevance to the motion before us. But I believe that about an hour and a half ago there was a vote on this committee, which carried, that we should move to Mr. Martin's motion. And then there was an amendment made to that. There were multiple circular arguments around that. Now there is a subamendment made to the amendment and multiple circular arguments are being made to try to bring it back to the point that we originally voted against.
Somewhere in there is a perversion of the rules of order of this committee. With respect, I think you should rule on that.
10:40 a.m.
Liberal
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON
I would like you to make a ruling. I'm asking you to make a ruling.
10:40 a.m.
Liberal
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Have we not already voted on this point, on the point of whether or not this committee is going to ask the minister to reappear before this committee?
That was the point, I believe, of Mr. Siksay's motion, which I voted in favour of and he voted in favour of, which got us to move to Mr. Martin's motion. And now, after all this discussion and all these words that have flowed under the bridge, we're back to talking about what Mr. Siksay moved that we shouldn't talk to.
I realize they're trying to run the clock and it's very clear. But if I may, I think you should rule on whether or not we've already voted on this question.
10:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Okay.
I have a couple of people who do want to speak, and I will recognize you, but first if I will ask something of the clerk and the analyst. I know what I think, but I want to just check.
Has there been a motion and a vote of the committee on the question of whether or not the minister should reappear? I'm not asking the member, I'm asking the clerk.
Mr. Dechert, there was no motion or vote taken on whether or not the minister should appear.
