Evidence of meeting #36 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was offence.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jennifer Stoddart  Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

We'll now call the meeting to order.

Welcome everyone.

In this meeting, again called pursuant to the Standing Orders, we have three possible items on the agenda, colleagues.

The first item, which we're going to go to immediately, is to hold a hearing on the certificate of nomination of Madam Jennifer Stoddart to the position of Privacy Commissioner. Her mandate has been renewed for an additional three-year period. As is the custom, she has come before the committee on the government nomination for this position for the additional three-year period.

The committee is very pleased to have with us the Privacy Commissioner. She did come here on very short notice and we thank her for that. We're going to ask her now for her opening comments, and then we will go to questions from members of the committee.

Depending on our time, we will then go into the Google study. Then, at 4:30, we're going to have Mr. Serge Ménard with us, the member of Parliament for Marc-Aurèle-Fortin.

Having said that, I now invite you, Madam Stoddart, to give your opening comments.

3:30 p.m.

Jennifer Stoddart Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Ladies and gentlemen members of the committee,

good afternoon. It's an honour to be here once again with you, but this time to answer questions about my nomination for reappointment as Privacy Commissioner of Canada.

I would deeply appreciate Parliament's confidence in me to continue on in this role and to have the opportunity to build on what my office has already accomplished. It has been a great privilege to serve Canadians and Parliament for the last seven years.

As you know, I've had the pleasure of appearing before this committee many times over the course of my mandate. and I'm very happy to see so many familiar faces today.

It has been quite a journey over the last seven years. Back in 2003, I took over an office that was only beginning to recover from an extremely difficult period. Our administrative powers had been seriously curtailed. Part of our budget was about to lapse. We were being investigated by the RCMP, the Auditor General, and others.

I must say that it took a lot of hard work, but we got our house back in order and returned our focus to where it should be--protecting the privacy rights of Canadians.

To be frank, this has also been a tremendous challenge in the face of a dramatic reshaping of the privacy landscape in recent years. Technological advances in human creativity have combined to bring us a multitude of new online services and electronic devices with important implications for our privacy: social networking sites, YouTube, foursquare, and smartphones, to name but a few.

At the same time, our personal data has become a hot commodity in both the private and the public sectors. Businesses use increasingly detailed profiles to better target us with advertising, while governments around the world see personal data as the key to combatting terrorism and other crimes.

We live in a world where the flow of data is global, instantaneous, and constant. I am extremely proud of our achievements in the face of this rapid change. However, the ongoing threats to privacy remain enormous, and there is still so much to do.

If reappointed, then, I would focus on a few areas: leadership on priority privacy issues--we have four, and I can talk more about them later; supporting Canadians, organizations, and institutions to make informed privacy decisions; and of course and always, service delivery to Canadians and, by extension, to Parliament as well.

I'd like to move on now to leadership on priority issues.

As Canadians live out more and more of their daily lives in this digital environment, it is clear that is where we need to be focusing much of our attention.

As you know, we have had ongoing discussions with on-line giants such as Facebook and Google. At the moment, we are investigating further complaints about Facebook, as well as—

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

I apologize.

Is there a problem with the translation, Mr. Albrecht?

Can we have a test on the translation?

All right; it's working.

3:30 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

Perhaps I could begin that part again.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

No, no. We have a written copy of your remarks. Please go ahead.

3:30 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

I was just talking about Canadians being online more and more, so that's where we have to spend our time.

At the moment, we are investigating further complaints about Facebook, as well as a site targeting children, and an on-line dating site. These are critically important issues when you consider the role the Internet plays in daily life.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Sorry, but I'm not getting any English either. We have no option but to suspend if we don't have translation.

3:35 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

Mr. Chairman, if it would help, I could continue the rest of my presentation in French, and then go back and do the missing part completely in English.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

But if you speak French, I don't think we get the English.

3:35 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

The honourable members also have copies in their respective languages in front of them.

3:35 p.m.

An hon. member

It is the translation that is the problem.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

If we don't have translation I have no option but to suspend, so I'm going to suspend for five minutes and ask the technicians to have a look at this and see if we can get recourse.

The meeting is suspended.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

I'll now call the meeting back to order. I understand that our technology is still working. Am I coming to you in French okay?

Oui? Okay. We're going to go back to Madam Stoddart, who will complete her opening remarks.

3:45 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

I'll continue, honourable members, where I left off.

These are critically important issues when you consider the role the Internet plays in daily life, as I was saying. I recently read that one in four American couples who met since 2007 first met on-line.

Earlier this year, we held public consultations on on-line consumer tracking and cloud computing, in order to learn more about certain industry practices, explore their privacy implications, and find out what privacy protections Canadians expect with respect to these practices.

Looking ahead, we need to continue to develop a deeper understanding of privacy issues in a digital world. We should also continue to build on our expertise by hiring more IT specialists and creating links with outside experts. Continued cooperation with our provincial, as well as our international, colleagues will also be critical to our future success.

I'd like to move now to public safety. Another ongoing strategic priority relates to the potentially grave privacy implications of national security and law enforcement measures.

Privacy is not an absolute right. Indeed, there may be cases when privacy protections must give way to protecting a greater good. However, Canadians should only be asked to make this sacrifice when it is clear that the promised outcome—be it safer air travel or catching money launderers—will actually be achieved and that there is no less privacy-invasive option that would allow us to reach this goal.

We have worked with numerous government departments and agencies to introduce stronger privacy protections into initiatives such as Passenger Protect program—our no-fly program—airport scanners, and the RCMP's exempt databanks. We should continue to be vigilant in this area.

Another piece of the privacy protection challenge is making sure that Canadians develop strong digital literacy skills.

We're using online tools to help Canadians better understand their privacy rights and make well-informed choices in a rapidly changing privacy landscape. We have a blog and a website targeted at youth. We tweet, and we post videos about privacy on YouTube. Much of our public awareness work is being conducted in collaboration with a wide variety of others, such as teachers, consumer and business groups, and government organizations as well.

Perhaps partly because I'm a former provincial commissioner myself, I've always seen the need to build stronger ties with provincial colleagues and other stakeholders across the country. I want to ensure that the Privacy Commissioner's office is not perceived as either too Ottawa-centric or unaware of issues outside the national capital region.

We recently opened an office in Toronto, where many of the organizations we receive complaints about are headquartered. It will also be critical to maintain regional outreach to all parts of the country and to continue to maintain cultural and linguistic diversity in the office to be truly responsive to the Canadians we serve.

At the end of the day, what is most important to me is that our work meets the needs and the expectations of Canadians. As I mentioned at the outset, this requires that we also remain responsive to the needs of businesses, government, and Parliament.

I enjoy a very privileged position as an officer of Parliament and, from my point of view, I have had in these last seven years a very positive and a very constructive relationship with Parliament. As you know, I am accountable to Parliament. For example, I come to Parliament whenever I am invited to comment on legislation being studied at committee.

Once a year, we set out for Parliament's consideration—that's usually this committee's consideration—our plans and priorities. If there is a priority that Parliament would like me to follow, it has an opportunity at that time to bring it forward during this process. I also have tabled annual reports on our work to Parliament and with this committee over the years.

I would certainly welcome further opportunities to speak with members of this committee and Parliament more broadly about what my office does and to discuss any matter that raises privacy concerns.

In closing, I would like to say that I would welcome the opportunity to continue to leverage what has already been accomplished over the past few years, and I thank you very much for listening to this presentation. I'd be pleased to answer any questions that you might have.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

We'll do our customary rounds of seven minutes.

Mr. Easter, you're first.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

I won't be taking the whole seven minutes, I don't think, Mr. Chair. We are supportive of the reappointment.

I think you outlined in your submission and your remarks the areas you are moving in, which I think is a fairly positive step forward.

I have a couple of questions on the whole online world. I believe I mentioned this here when the Google mapping issue was before us.

One of the things that I'm greatly concerned about is that I think many Canadian users of the Internet do not realize how unsecured the Internet can be. To a certain extent, it's an invasion of privacy by default. If you take a portable computer and make a stop somewhere, you'll find several unsecured lines that you can be on. If you know technology, there's no doubt that there are ways you could tap into those sites.

How do you see yourself dealing with that issue? I know it's not your direct responsibility, but it is a way that people's privacy can be invaded, to a great extent because of their own fault, but I think it's because they just don't know.

3:50 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

Some of them don't know and some of them choose to ignore it. I'll talk about two recent things my office has done to illustrate how I want to continue dealing with this.

I said in my presentation that investing in experts in information technology and knowledge of information technology is hugely important. Both of our laws are technology neutral, but as time goes on, we have to adapt to the mediums on which personal information is carried.

In terms of people who aren't aware of the implications of using some of the new technology, we've recently done a couple of interesting blogs, one of which talks about a new software kit—I happened to read them myself—that allows you to hack into other people's doings online, basically, and also the general danger of using unencrypted wireless networks that may be emanating from cafés and so on. This makes their information very vulnerable, so we hope a lot of Canadians will read that.

We also did an audit that we reported on in our last privacy act report, and that was on the use of unencrypted Wi-Fi messages by the government. We found that quite a few departments and agencies, a majority in our sample, had people who were functioning on wireless networks outside of the firewalls of the Canadian government, in spite of the clear directions of CSIS. That's the second group that I would say should know; they have been given instructions on what not to do and they do it anyway.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Certainly the second group should know, and that comes to your remarks on public safety. I know this is an area that you've reviewed. One of the concerns I have is the infringement on our own privacy rights, identification and so on, from decisions made by our neighbour to the south. You get on a flight and the information is given to the United States. I have no idea what they do with that. From your perspective, how do we protect ourselves further from what is happening there?

3:55 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

We recently examined this legislation, which is currently before Parliament. We understand that the Government of Canada has made strenuous representations to the Government of the United States, though to no avail. This rule—they call it a rule—will come into force on January 1.

What we suggested was that the government nonetheless continue to make representations to the United States on the impact of this; secondly, that it make use of its regulatory power under the transport act to limit the amount of personal information that can be given to Homeland Security in the context of this new program; and thirdly, that it undertake an information awareness campaign so Canadians become aware of this program and the consequences that they may unexpectedly find themselves not able to board a plane.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

And that could be, based on your experience, just because your name happens to be the same...?

3:55 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

Well, unfortunately, one of the things that makes us fear the consequences of this program is that there's ample historical evidence of a lot of slip-ups--people who have the same names, even if they're spelled differently. We can think of names in all cultural traditions that can be spelled different ways, and you can find yourself in a very difficult process to prove to the authority--it could be Homeland Security, it could be here in Canada, too--that you are not the person whose name is spelled a bit differently.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Yes. I've just had an experience with that and the person actually had to get fingerprinted to get it solved.

I have no further questions, Mr. Chair.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy

Thank you very much, Mr. Easter.

Ms. Freeman, you have seven minutes.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Carole Freeman Bloc Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good afternoon, Ms. Stoddart. Thank you for accepting our invitation.

To begin with, I would like to congratulate you on the three-year extension of your mandate, and reiterate this committee's admiration for the outstanding work you have done in recent years and your success in meeting many challenges. Furthermore, you have been a key figure, and not only here. I know that you held the position of commissioner in Quebec--

3:55 p.m.

Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada

Jennifer Stoddart

It's a nice promotion.