Evidence of meeting #39 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was investigation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Thank you very much, Mr. Easter.
We're going to go to Madame Thi Lac, pour sept minutes.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Thank you, Mrs. Shepherd, for being here once again. I know that you appear quite often before the committee.
I would like to clarify some of your statements of this afternoon. On page 4 of your brief, you say that ”it is also possible that I close the Administrative Review even though the allegation is well-founded”.
Have you ever done so? Have you ever closed an investigation even though the allegation was well-founded?
4 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying
Yes, I have, because in a few of the cases.... I actually have indicated this on one of the takeaway slides.
As I said, some cases do not deserve to be referred to the RCMP. For example, with their voluntary disclosures, some lobbyists have told us that it took them some time to register. We looked at the issue and analyzed the cases to see if that was the first time, if there was some history there, and if they had indicated to us that it would not happen again in the future.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
That may be the answer to my second question, Mrs. Shepherd. You are referring to cases where the offense may not be serious enough for a referral to the RCMP. I am talking about that kind of offense.
A bit further on, you mention 16 cases where the allegations were well-founded but where you used non-legal measures. What were those measures?
4 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying
They might have been administrative monetary penalties, had I had that power. At this time, I have no power.
4 p.m.
René Leblanc Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Could I add a word, please?
4 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I believe that Mrs. Shepherd did not understand your question. I believe that you were referring to cases where we find that there is a well-founded offense but for which we take measures other than a referral to the RCMP. Was that your question?
4 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Those measures would be education or information measures, to make sure that the lobbyists have a good understanding of the legislation and of its requirements.
Does that answer your question?
4 p.m.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Yes, thank you.
Among the powers that you do have, you said that you might also prohibit a lobbyist from engaging in lobbying activities for up to two years.
Have you ever used that power?
4 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Once again, the prohibition would only apply if there had been a judgment against the person. In the case we are talking about, there has never been such a judgment and so the Commissioner has never had the opportunity to apply that rule.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
All right.
Further on in your brief, you refer to ”the names of those actually engaging in lobbying activities”.
I would like you to explain the word ”actually” in that context.
4 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I will answer because you are speaking very fast.
The word ”actually” simply means that, in cases where there are meetings with designated public office holders that should be reported in the monthly reports, the persons who were present at those meetings are not necessarily identified in the reports. Those who have to be identified as in-house lobbyists are the senior reporting officers of the Corporation who must be registered.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
In answer to my colleague Mr. Wayne Easter, you referred to the public interest. Could you explain what you mean by the public interest in this context?
4:05 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying
Are you referring to the reason why I will produce a report?
4:05 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying
It is to demonstrate the transparency of lobbying as well as the transparency of my mandate. It is also in the interest of lobbyists or other persons who would want to see what happens when there is an offense.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
All right.
You also said that you granted an exemption request for exceptional reasons in only four cases. What were the exceptional reasons that led you to grant those exemptions?
4:05 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying
It was, for example, because the person had worked as a lobbyist only for a very short period of time. The last time I granted an exemption, it was to a student who had fulfilled some administrative functions for a very short period of time.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Finally, we have also talked about the definition of a lobbyist. I believe that the opposition and the government do not agree on what really is a lobbyist.
We, at the Bloc Québécois, believe that there are people who act as lobbyists and are not registered when in fact they should be.
Do you believe that the scope of present legislation is broad enough or that there are indeed people who act as lobbyists but are not registered because of a gap in the Act?
4:05 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying
This is one of the issues that I said could perhaps be looked at during the legislative review. I was referring exactly to that kind of issue. If organizations or corporations do not exceed a significant amount of time, they do not have to register. So, they are practising lobbying without being registered. Also, if they are not registered, they do not have to produce a monthly communication report. This is a situation that really should be looked at, I believe.
That being said, it might create problems for non-profit organizations if that percentage is eliminated.
That is why I think this matter should be discussed during the administrative review.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Thank you very much, Mrs. Shepherd and Mr. Leblanc.