Evidence of meeting #6 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was convention.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Chief Electoral Officer, welcome.
I have a couple of questions. The crux of the matter is that we're talking about advertising for fair market value. How often do you see that from a political party?
9:10 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Not very often, but the information provided in financial returns by parties would not provide enough information to determine how much was spent or how much revenue was generated by various activities.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
9:10 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Yes. I have seen it from the main parties at least, but I couldn't speak to all parties.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
The Conservative Party, the Liberal Party, and the NDP would show other revenue in their returns. So it's quite possible that this other revenue could be for advertising purposes.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
How often does your office field calls from parties or riding associations with regard to this question of fair market value? Do you answer a number of inquiries on this?
9:10 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
We do get inquiries on that and various other matters. We would get inquiries all the time around contributions and expenses from various financial agents for candidates' riding associations or for the party.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
So the two criteria are: is there a market for the advertising, and what's the fair market value? Have you set out for these candidates, and for the ridings and the parties, any guidelines on what the market would be? Are we talking about a number of individuals? Have you given them any guidelines on what you see as fair market value?
9:10 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Not beyond what I said this morning.... Again, the notion of fair market value can be quite complicated, and it has to be addressed in the context of the regulatory regime at play and in the context of the specific transaction. The concept is used for tax purposes, in competition issues, and for determining municipal taxes, so it's a concept well known in common law. It's not legislated in our elections act.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
You also mentioned a normal transaction. Could you elaborate on what a normal transaction would be in the context of those two things?
9:10 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
It is the sort of transaction where, assuming you find a market, you can compare that specific transaction to other similar transactions in that market.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
Would you ask a political party or a riding to show you some of those normal transactions as part of...?
9:10 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Yes, I would expect to, and I think in our issue sheet it is suggested that the party may get independent advice on fair market value from time to time. It would be up to the party to demonstrate that it did due diligence in establishing fair market value.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
We talked about how, in the returns that come in from ridings and parties, you don't see the detail under what is called “other revenue”.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
What would the threshold be for you? Your department audits every return that comes in, correct?
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
The compliance audit. What threshold would cause one of your compliance auditors to go and get information on other revenue? What would the threshold be for a riding? What would the threshold be for a party, where you would say this other revenue is suspect or you need more information?
9:15 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Again, maybe I need to point out that under the current legislation we don't have access to the books of a party. In fact, I recommended to a previous Parliament to allow some access to books to examine financial transactions. That being said, from time to time, there's a big change from year to year. The auditor may ask a question, but again, the party is free to answer or not. They don't have to provide us with any documents in support of their transactions.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
So if there's a number that's outrageous, you would not be able to actually ask the party or the riding to give you information on that? Is that what you're saying?
9:15 a.m.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Unless they want to provide it voluntarily, I have no tools in the current legislation to access the books and records. That being said, if there is an issue that causes some concern based on different information we may have, we will refer it to the commissioner.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
That leads to my next question. How many investigations do you have ongoing at this particular time?