Evidence of meeting #11 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was debate.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Miriam Burke

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Colleagues, we're ready to begin now. I have a couple of opening remarks and then I'll get to a very full speakers list.

We passed the motion of Mr. Angus, and I wanted to advise the committee that we've already taken action in the sense of sending the request to Speakers' Spotlight in regard to the documents. As well, we're relying on you to make sure that all of your witness lists are in by next Monday. We will be reaching out to Frank Baylis as well; and anything else that's specifically embedded in the motion, we'll take action on.

Now we'll continue with the debate that we left off from the last meeting, and here's my list: Mr. Angus; Mr. Kelly, Mr. Gourde, Madame Gaudreau, Mr. Warkentin, Madame Lattanzio, Madame Shanahan, Mr. Fergus, and Mr. Sorbara.

Mr. Angus.

1:05 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Thank you, Chair, and thank you for clarifying that we need to get our witness lists in so that we can actually get to work.

I want to speak briefly to Mr. Dong's motion.

We have gone through 40 hours of obstruction of this committee. What that means, I think my Liberal colleagues really need to understand, is that there's been a poisoning of the relationships on this committee. You get elected by your party and your party sends you in to do certain stuff. Sometimes it's not all that tasteful, but you do it because you're a good loyal foot soldier, but the only thing that gets you through your career in politics is your integrity. Your “yes” means yes, and your “no” means no, as the nuns used to teach me at school.

I've seen see 40 hours of obstruction and interference in the work of the committee, something I've never seen before, and when we finally passed the motion, the committee is immediately hijacked by Mr. Dong—something else that I've never ever seen before. The reasoning he gives us is that he's upset because he doesn't want to talk about this and that he's never had a motion passed, and the Liberals haven't had any of their motions passed.

So rather than let our committee do the work that we need to do, we were filibustered by both Mr. Dong and Ms. Shanahan. I mention this because I'm asking my Liberal colleagues if that's how they want to play, because if it's about jumping the floor and getting motions to change subjects, we could make life a living hell. If you want scorched earth, it will be scorched earth. If your word means nothing, then for the opposition, we have nothing to get from this committee other than our own agendas.

On the last ethics committee I was on, we worked extremely well together. We put aside our agendas. We learned to listen to each other and work, and we did extraordinary work and that work was recognized internationally. In the previous ethics committee, it was often a gong show. Dean Del Mastro and I went at it on a daily basis, but the work of the committee was never interfered with. It was never monkeywrenched by the antics that I've seen from the Liberals. When things got bad between Dean Del Mastro and me, the whips came down and we got things sorted out because the committee always had to function, but now we see that this committee is in a position where the Liberals want to make it impossible to function.

With regard to Mr. Dong's debate or motion, I find it really irregular. I think it's really a cheap tactic to stop us from getting the basic work done on a committee study.

So I move to adjourn debate on Mr. Dong's motion.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

This is a dilatory motion, so I'll hand it over to the clerk for a vote.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

I have a point of order, Chair.

1:05 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

It's not debatable.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Go ahead, Mr. Dong, on your point.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

Yes, thank you, Chair. I hear a little bit of echo here, but I'll do my best. I listened to Mr. Angus' debate on the motion I put forward—

1:05 p.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Madame Gaudreau, is it on a technical issue? Are you not getting translation?

1:05 p.m.

Bloc

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

I heard a bit of echo, and since Mr. Dong began speaking, it's been even worse. We can hear the floor, the member in question and the interpreter all at once. It's unbelievable.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

We'll get the IT team to work on it.

Mr. Dong, can you conclude your remarks, please?

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

Sure. I'll be very quick.

I want to say that I want to show my respect to allow Mr. Angus to finish his remarks today, but the content of his debate today, I find very offensive. He's taking—

1:05 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

It's not debatable; this is not debatable. We're going to a vote.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

Chair, do I have the floor?

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Mr. Dong, I actually—

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

I will be very concise. I spoke for only 20 seconds.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Hang on just a second.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

I've been interrupted already.

1:05 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

It's not debatable.

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Please just chill a bit.

I've already taken the liberty. Generally speaking, when a motion is moved and I have advised the clerk to take the vote, then there's no other interruption of business.

I thought you were going to have a brief comment. I will give you 20 more seconds and then we need to get to the vote.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

Thank you, Chair. I don't want to take any more time.

Just check the blues of the last meeting to see how much time Mr. Angus used to debate—

1:10 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

This is debate.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

—and how much time I used.

1:10 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

This is debate.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Han Dong Liberal Don Valley North, ON

I just find it very disrespectful—