Evidence of meeting #105 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was investigation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:55 a.m.
S/Sgt Frédéric Pincince
That's correct, Mr. Chair.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
It's logical to say that, when the Honourable Jody Wilson-Raybould states, based on the parameters of the OIC, that there aren't grounds for criminality, it's within those tight parameters from which you would have drawn the same conclusions.
11:55 a.m.
S/Sgt Frédéric Pincince
We came to this conclusion based on the parameters within which we operated.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Was there frustration in not being able to get to the heart of the matter?
11:55 a.m.
S/Sgt Frédéric Pincince
I would not call it frustration, Mr. Chair.
Of course, we always endeavour to obtain as much information as possible so the information is as complete as possible.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Was there an opinion in that interview that, had the Honourable Jody Wilson-Raybould been able to say more, she could have said more, had those parameters not been put on it?
11:55 a.m.
S/Sgt Frédéric Pincince
Again, Mr. Chair, I would not be in a position to speculate about what information could have been provided and whether that information would have led to the establishment of the elements of the offence.
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Was there anything in that interview that would have given you any kind of credence for requesting an expansion of the OIC to allow you greater access to personal testimony and documentation?
11:55 a.m.
S/Sgt Frédéric Pincince
Mr. Chair, I would have to say that, of course, we sought an expansion to the original order in council.
11:55 a.m.
S/Sgt Frédéric Pincince
We made the request and we obtained a waiver and an authorization, which were the same parameters as the ones in the order in council of 2019—
11:55 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
You made a request for an expansion. It was approved, and they gave you the exact information as in the original OIC.
Noon
S/Sgt Frédéric Pincince
I should specify, Mr. Chair, that we did receive a waiver and an authorization—not to the parameters that were requested, but we did receive one.
Noon
NDP
Noon
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Green.
We're going to go five and five, and then reset.
Mr. Berthold, you have five minutes.
Mr. Villemure, could you please take over as chair for a few minutes?
Noon
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Duheme and Mr. Pincince, for joining us.
Mr. Duheme, when you last appeared before the committee, the meeting was interrupted before your testimony even began, because the Liberals didn’t want us to shed light on why the criminal investigation into SNC-Lavalin was halted. It was a cover-up. We see that it continues to this day.
From what has been said so far, Mr. Duheme, it is clear that the RCMP put far less effort into its investigation, unlike the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner. The latter found the Prime Minister guilty of violating section 9 of the Conflict of Interest Act.
Will you acknowledge that you put less effort than the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner into determining whether or not Mr. Justin Trudeau had violated the Criminal Code?
Noon
Commr Michael Duheme
Mr. Chair, I do not agree that we made less of an effort. The parameters of an investigation by the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner and those of a criminal investigation are completely different.
Noon
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Then I will ask you other questions, Mr. Duheme, which might allow you to shed some light on the subject.
How many hours did the RCMP spend on the investigation?
Noon
Commr Michael Duheme
I will refer the question to Mr. Pincince.
Noon
S/Sgt Frédéric Pincince
Mr. Chair, I don’t have the information as to the number of hours, but we’re talking about a considerable number—
Noon
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
All right, you don’t have an answer.
How many investigators were assigned to the investigation?
Noon
S/Sgt Frédéric Pincince
I can’t give you an exact number, but it was fewer than ten investigators.
Noon
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
How many people were questioned by those investigators?
Noon
S/Sgt Frédéric Pincince
We spoke to four witnesses over the course of five interviews. So there were two interviews with the same witness.
