Information & Ethics Committee on April 11th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Good morning, everyone.

I'm going to open up meeting number 111 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics.

Before we go in camera, I wanted to bring something to the attention of the committee.

Mr. Fisher, to your point the other day about the scheduling, right now as it stands we have the social media draft report, version one, later today. We have the Ethics Commissioner and the Commissioner of Lobbying on the 16th. Then, we have the main estimates on the 18th, which is the Information Commissioner coming in. I've left time later on that afternoon for the second hour, in case we need to complete the draft study.

For the purposes of the committee, we have 17 meetings, or fewer, left in this session. We have two different studies that need to be done. This is where I need direction from the committee. We have Villemure one, as I'll call it, which is the study on information and disinformation, and then Villemure two, which is the Winnipeg lab study. I need an order of precedence from the committee to determine where we want to go on those studies and which one we want to do first. It will help the clerk and it will help the analysts to provide witnesses for the committee on those studies.

Mr. Cooper, did you want to speak to this?

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

I want to move a motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay, I'll come back to you. We're on this right now.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I'll go to Mr. Villemure, on the calendar.

Please, go ahead.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Obviously, both studies are near and dear to my heart because they’re both very important. Disinformation and misinformation are, in fact, linked to everything we’ve been seeing in terms of election interference, and so on.

However, it seems to me that the Winnipeg lab and concealment study is the priority, compared to the other study. Ethically speaking, they’re both worthwhile studies. But if I have to choose one, I would go with the Winnipeg lab report.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Thank you.

I forgot to mention that the Privacy Commissioner will be appearing before the committee on May 9.

Mr. Villemure, you prefer that we start with the Winnipeg lab study. Is that correct?

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Is there any other discussion on that?

Again, from a scheduling standpoint, we want to make sure that the analysts and the clerk are in a position to succeed.

Go ahead, Mr. Fisher.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Our preference would be to study the misinformation ASAP, if possible.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay, we have converging views here on where we need to go.

Is there any other discussion on this from any other party?

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Yes, go ahead.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

I was going to express, about the misinformation study, that, at least on this side, we were all eager to get to it. Instead of choosing one or the other, perhaps there's a way to mix up the two and do one meeting on one and one meeting on the other, or something like that. Then we could actually cover both.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay.

Mr. Villemure, you still have the floor.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

In answer to my colleague, we’ve tried what he’s suggesting a few times in the past. However, I found that constantly switching from one study to another sometimes made it harder for us to follow. This was also true for the analysts. That’s the reason for my choice.

I suggested both studies, and both of them are close to my heart, believe me. The choice is heartbreaking, but I still maintain my preference for the Winnipeg lab study.

Mr. Housefather’s suggestion is sound, except that, having tried it that way a few times—this was before my colleague was a member of the committee—I know that these topics are pretty heavy when you are invested in them, and I find it difficult to jump from one study to the other every week.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Alright. Thank you.

For the benefit of the committee, not only do we have the draft report that we're dealing with today, but we'll be dealing with the information tool report as well, so that might leave us a little less time going forward.

My preference, frankly, is to do one over the other, and what that study is can be determined by the committee. Certainly, we'll deal with that. I don't expect that we're going to have a draft report on either one of these studies done before the summer. This may take us well into the fall.

Go ahead, Mr. Bains and then Mr. Green, on this issue.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just wanted to note, considering that the Winnipeg lab study is being done already in another committee, it would give us an opportunity as the only committee studying misinformation and disinformation and the very important work that needs to be done there.

My preference is that we do the misinformation/disinformation study.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Bains.

Mr. Green.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

If I recall, the motion that Mr. Villemure put forward was for three meetings. Is that correct?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

That's correct, yes. Both of them were for three meetings.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

The Winnipeg lab study at the Canada-China committee is scheduled for how many meetings?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Mr. Villemure, you're sitting on that committee. Is that correct?

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I'm subbing on that committee. This is an open-ended motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Okay, so there's no definitive timeline and no number of days. It sounds like it could go on for a while.