Evidence of meeting #112 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was report.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:10 a.m.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That's correct.
11:10 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Could you take us through the investigative process so far for the SDTC file? I appreciate that there is information you're not able to get into until you've presented your report, but I imagine there is a process that you'd follow. Are you able to take us through that and forecast when you would expect the resolution? Informally, I believe I asked you this before and you said, “as soon as possible,” which I appreciate, but what has the process looked like?
11:10 a.m.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
First of all, if a complaint is made, we look at it. We see if there is enough substance to warrant an investigation, and then we do an investigation.
We notify the people. We ask them to send us all of the relevant documents. They send them to us. We examine said documents. On the basis of that, we then structure the questioning. We ask them to come. We put them under oath. They answer the questions. If we need some other people, as a result of those questions, whose testimony will be relevant, we'll summon them. It's the same process again.
Once everything is done, we come to a conclusion and write a report. The factual part of the report we send to them and say, “These are the facts we've found. Is there anything incorrect, and do you want to help us?” We certainly don't want to misstate the factual situation. They give us a response.
Once we have that, the whole thing is translated into both languages, and then we publish it. On the same day, we notify the person who is....
I can tell you now that certainly before August 1 you will see the report.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I appreciate that. Thank you very much.
11:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Barrett.
Commissioner, I'm going to ask if you can speak up just a little. We don't have the ability to put those longer mics on, as we have in the past, so if you can speak up or maybe get a bit closer to the microphone, that would be terrific.
Mr. Bains, you have six minutes. Go ahead, sir.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Commissioner, for joining us with your team today.
When you were last at this committee, you were asked about sponsored travel by a number of MPs. On the problems associated with sponsored travel, is the apparently limitless value of gifts receivable during travel a problem for you? Have you given any thought to this since the last time you visited?
11:15 a.m.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
You know what the rules are, and these are the rules you yourselves passed. It's the code the House passed for members of the House. I administer them and I live with them. Could they be improved? That's up to you and the general public to decide.
My job in this case is not to suggest that you change your code. You decide the code you want to live by and I apply it.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
When a member believes an investigation is warranted by your office, do you think it's responsible of the member to predetermine the outcome of the investigation and to publicly share this view?
11:15 a.m.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Well, I don't think that's the proper behaviour, but on the other hand, we live in a country with freedom of speech. They can of course say what they want. It's their opinion. That doesn't mean that will be the outcome of the investigation.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Section 13 of the code states, “A member shall not participate in debate on or vote on a question in which he or she has a private interest.” Does this mean someone who is advocating for a sector in which they have a financial interest, during a debate in the House or at a committee, is violating this part of the code?
11:15 a.m.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
It depends on how you define “sector”. If you're talking about, let's say, farming and you're a farmer, obviously you can speak on it. If, however, you are a milk farmer and this is something specifically on milk farming, you probably should not because that clearly will affect you.
You have to put it in the context of what the sector is and whether you think it's proper to the content or not. I get a lot of inquiries on this very point from you—not from you personally, but from members of Parliament—and we give them the best advice we can on their circumstances.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
On the same point, does this extend to voting on government legislation?
11:15 a.m.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Again, it depends. If you're voting on something that will directly affect you, you should not do it because that clearly represents a conflict of interest. You have to look at the vote, what it entails and what the consequences of the vote are for your situation before you can make that decision.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Now that you're in this role full time, has your office seen an increase in demand for services? If so, how has this affected your capacity and the need for funding?
11:15 a.m.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No, I don't think there has been any change in the volume of work that has come in since I was appointed permanently. Whatever backlog there was, we managed to deal with it within the first few months of my interim appointment. Right now, we are fully staffed, and we are meeting the demands as they come to us.
11:15 a.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Your office is funded very differently from others that are examined in the main estimates. Could you explain how funding is requested and why it's done in that way?
11:15 a.m.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Sandy, would you like to answer that?
11:15 a.m.
Sandy Tremblay Director, Corporate Management, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes, I can answer that question.
We operate differently. Basically, the commissioner prepares the main estimates of what will be required for the expenses of the office for the next year. Then this is submitted to the Speaker for concurrence, and it's provided to the President of the Treasury Board, who submits our main estimates as well as those of the other government departments to the House of Commons.
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
To build on that, the 2024 main estimates allocated around $6 million for “Administration and Interpretation of the Conflict of Interest Act and the Conflict of Interest Code”, as well as around $2.5 million for “Internal Services”. What internal services are offered by your office, and how does the increase in operating budgets positively impact the services you're able to offer within the office?
Maybe I'll go back to you, Ms. Tremblay.
11:20 a.m.
Director, Corporate Management, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
In terms of internal services, we're talking about human resources, financial services, information technology and information management. Also, some parts of communications and some parts of legal services offer internal services.
We haven't had an increase at all in our operations budget, but in the salary budget, we had a small increase in that area, so we had to staff an additional person in information technology. In terms of professional services, I'd say 65% of our operations budget goes to the House of Commons administration, because we have a service-level agreement for information technology with the House of Commons administration.
11:20 a.m.
Liberal
11:20 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Brassard
Thank you, Mr. Bains.
Mr. Villemure, you now have the floor for six minutes.
11:20 a.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to greet the witnesses and thank them for being here.
Commissioner, I'm interested in the smooth operation of the Office of the Commissioner. I want to make sure that you have all the resources you need to accomplish your mission. According to your current budget, do you have all the resources you need to do so?
11:20 a.m.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes, we have all the resources we need.
11:20 a.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Perfect.
There are a lot of documents from the Office of the Commissioner online, but we can't find the 2021-24 strategic plan yet. Will it be published soon?