Evidence of meeting #112 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was report.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:20 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
I certainly wouldn't accept that as an excuse for circumventing the rules.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Should that be looked at as a problem? If you're operating for years and all of a sudden, say, a government changes and you change your name, should that be looked at?
12:20 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
If I have allegations that an organization, a corporation or a firm has been lobbying while not registered, the change of name will not affect the way I look at the file to see whether or not they met the threshold and should have been registered.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
What are some of the other challenges your office is facing when it comes to ensuring that the rules outlined in the act and the code are not circumvented?
12:20 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
The biggest challenge is the “significant part of the duties” threshold. There is a lot of lobbying occurring that isn't required to be registered. When I receive some allegations, I see things in the news and look into them to see if they meet the threshold. However, very often organizations or corporations will stay under the threshold so they don't need to register. That needs to be fixed.
April 16th, 2024 / 12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
If I were to go further on exactly what you said—that you look at news reports—we've seen media reporting and letters received by your office showing that you're well aware of the circumstances around, for example, Ms. Jenni Byrne and Forecheck Strategies. Of particular concern is that staff of Jenni Byrne + Associates used the name Forecheck Strategies to lobby federally, including to lobby members of the Conservative Party and the Leader of the Opposition. Some obvious contraventions to the 2023 code, specifically sections 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3, may be happening there, as outlined in the reporting on this issue.
Is there an ongoing investigation into this matter?
12:20 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
I can confirm that I am looking into that matter. For every single thing you send me, I look into the matter, unless of course I have already started it, which often happens as well.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
What is the process in your office when you become aware of something like that?
12:20 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
The process is that we open a preliminary assessment, and we have a matrix to determine the level. One of my biggest challenges is to stay relevant and make sure that we are quick with our files. That way, if we need to send something to the RCMP or if we need to report to Parliament on a code issue, we can do it quickly.
I evaluate the importance and relevance of the file and the public interest in it. We open a preliminary assessment, we do our preliminary work and we ask whether the “significant part of the duties” threshold is even remotely met.
We seek a lot of information from public office holders and public servants, and they send us the information. We evaluate it, and if I have reason to believe an investigation is necessary to ensure compliance, I open an investigation. From there, either it's a report to Parliament if it's a code issue, or I refer it to the RCMP if it's an act issue.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Is this ongoing? Have you completed your initial review?
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
You haven't had to suspend the investigation for any reason. It's continuing right now.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Section 4.1 specifically states that you should “never lobby” an individual who may “have a sense of obligation” due to “a close [personal] relationship”.
I mentioned this somewhat in the previous question, but specifically with regard to Ms. Byrne, there have also been reports that Mr. Poilievre and Ms. Byrne share a well-documented, long-standing personal and professional relationship. Recent media coverage has shed light on Ms. Byrne's close ties to the Office of the Leader of the Opposition.
Based on a review of publicly available information, do you believe that Ms. Byrne and Mr. Poilievre share a close personal relationship consistent with section 4.1?
12:25 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
You're going to have to let me do my work because the code only applies to lobbyists who are registered to lobby the federal government. The code does not apply to someone who's not registered to lobby any one of you. That's the first step.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Okay, so if someone's lobbying and they're not registered, then—
12:25 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
That's another problem. That's an act issue. If there's unregistered lobbying happening, it's under the act and it's an offence. That would have to be referred to the RCMP. If they're registered to lobby and they breach the code of conduct, then I can complete that investigation and report to Parliament.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
I know you said to let you do your job, so we'll let you do your job, but I'm looking forward to the outcome of that.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
12:25 p.m.
Bloc
René Villemure Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being with us again, Ms. Bélanger. You're one of those commissioners we know won't hesitate to launch an inquiry when necessary, and we're very grateful to you for that.
I'd like to know how the lobbying world is doing. You have a new code, for instance.
12:25 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
Yes. All the statistics in all areas have increased. So our office is very active and we have a very hard-working team. We've had a lot of requests to interpret the new code, especially requests for exemptions for gifts and hospitality. It's kept us very busy. So, it's going well.
12:25 p.m.
Bloc
12:25 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
I think so. In July, it's going to be a year since it's been in effect and I haven't really received any complaints. You may have heard some, but I haven't.
12:25 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying of Canada
No, there haven't been any, unless you're talking about compliance complaints.
