Evidence of meeting #6 for Finance in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was competition.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Andy Charles  President and CEO, AIG United Guaranty Canada
Jim Murphy  Senior Director, Government Relations and Communications, Canadian Institute of Mortgage Brokers and Lenders
Peter Vukanovich  President and CEO, Genworth Financial Canada
Mark Tonnesen  President, CEO, Triad Guaranty Insurance Corporation
Noël Roy  chef de produit, financement hypothécaire, Direction du développement de l'offre, Fédération des caisses Desjardins
Karen Kinsley  President, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
John Kenward  Chief Operating Officer, Canadian Home Builders' Association
Dale Ripplinger  Director - Chair, Federal Affairs Committee, Canadian Real Estate Association
David Liu  Vice-President, International Markets, PMI Group, Inc.
Catherine Adams  Vice-President, Home Equity Financing, RBC Royal Bank, RBC Financial Group

4:25 p.m.

President and CEO, AIG United Guaranty Canada

Andy Charles

Mr. Dykstra, I will elaborate on the process. To give you some sense of the timeframe that's involved, we first looked at Canada in 2003. That was the first time we said, in a very serious manner, that this is a great market opportunity. It is a huge market served by only two players, and we think there's an opportunity to add value. From that point on, we have undertaken to follow the OSFI process, and that's inclusive of a business plan to OSFI, that's inclusive of a fairly rigorous examination of our documents and our capitalization. OSFI also requires us to have upfront capitalization. They do very thorough research on AIG overall, and in fact on any new player that wishes to come into Canada.

I can assure you, Mr. Dykstra, that this is not the type of market and this process is not the type of process where you decide on a Friday that you're going to come into this marketplace and on a Monday you're ready to go. For us it's been, as I said, since 2003 that we first undertook to give serious consideration to the Canadian marketplace.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON

Thank you.

I have a further question for Mr. Roy, actually. I'm not going to say that you're all here for a biased reason, but as a lender, you're here, obviously, for a different purpose in terms of expanding in the market. One of the things you commented on in your remarks is that the market would promote greater housing accessibility at more competitive costs. Could you expand on that a little bit in terms of...?

I know that Ms. Wasylycia-Leis spoke about the fact that a number of citizens may be served already. I would assume that as a lender--an unbiased lender--you're here today to speak to what is good for the folks who come in to your bank and do business with you.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

You have approximately thirty seconds, Mr. Roy, to promote your services to the Canadian people.

4:25 p.m.

chef de produit, financement hypothécaire, Direction du développement de l'offre, Fédération des caisses Desjardins

Noël Roy

The more players there are on the market, the more the lenders will be able to develop products that will have to be offered at competitive prices and that is something consumers will benefit from.

I gave you the example of a shared-risk product that we developed with Genworth and that led to the consumer benefiting from in terms of a 40 per cent premium reduction. Our involvement with the CMHC is mainly confined to the rental market, and it gives us the opportunity of offering better interest rates to those borrowers who have insurance.

If there were a third or a fourth entrant on the market, then perhaps we could develop other products. The problem is that when there are only two insurers, the same product is offered by both at the same prices and under the same conditions. This situation limits us as lenders in terms of the number of products we can develop.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

Merci, Monsieur.

To conclude, we'll have Mr. Pacetti.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We should have done this for the pre-budget consultation and limited the witnesses to two-and-a-half-minute presentations. I think we would have survived the last session much more easily.

Mr. Vukanovich, just for the record, your company is a profit-generating company, is it not?

4:25 p.m.

President and CEO, Genworth Financial Canada

Peter Vukanovich

Yes, it is.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Okay. Is it public?

4:25 p.m.

President and CEO, Genworth Financial Canada

Peter Vukanovich

We're a public company on the New York Stock Exchange, and the company in Canada is a subsidiary of that company.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Mortgage insurance does generate some profits, does it not? It's a profit-generating business. It's not....

4:25 p.m.

President and CEO, Genworth Financial Canada

Peter Vukanovich

Yes, it does, hopefully.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

I'm not going to ask how much.

You spoke about regulation. Is your company now being regulated? If there were other entrants into the market, wouldn't they be regulated as well?

4:30 p.m.

President and CEO, Genworth Financial Canada

Peter Vukanovich

Yes, they would be regulated by OSFI, but our issue...what we're talking about here is what I would call market conduct rules. OSFI does not really regulate market conduct; it regulates financial stability.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Are you being regulated right now by market conduct rules?

4:30 p.m.

President and CEO, Genworth Financial Canada

Peter Vukanovich

In terms of market conduct, no--other than through the existing Competition Bureau.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

So even if the others were not allowed to enter the market, rules should be put in place to conduct your market?

4:30 p.m.

President and CEO, Genworth Financial Canada

Peter Vukanovich

I think that up until now, from 1995 until 2006, there has been us and there has been CMHC. Again, if there are going to be five or six players coming in, then...if that's the case, some regulations need to be put in place to ensure that homebuyers benefit.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

I can ask you the next question as well.

You were saying that right now it's not the consumers who decide, but the lenders who decide. How is giving more choices going to help consumers? It would still be the lenders. I guess it's a two- or three-pronged question. How can we be assured that the lender doesn't pocket the savings, if there are going to be any savings? Will the lender have more than one supplier?

Perhaps you can answer that quickly, and then I'll ask Mr. Charles the question.

4:30 p.m.

President and CEO, Genworth Financial Canada

Peter Vukanovich

Are you asking me first?

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Yes.

4:30 p.m.

President and CEO, Genworth Financial Canada

Peter Vukanovich

The lender is our partner. They would obviously select the partner they think would best benefit them and homebuyers. There could be two. There could be all six. This is all new ground.

Again, we went to four players in the 1970s. We went back to two, and we've had two since 1995.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Mr. Charles, I'll get you to answer, and then I have a question for Monsieur Roy.

4:30 p.m.

President and CEO, AIG United Guaranty Canada

Andy Charles

The mortgage marketplace in Canada, based on my last 15 years, is incredibly competitive. You may recall that at one time, if you had a mortgage, you may have been paying a posted-rate type of mortgage, whereas now you look at its being heavily discounted. To that end, lenders are going to be looking for business partners who can help them explore new markets.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Will they have more than one business partner?

4:30 p.m.

President and CEO, AIG United Guaranty Canada