Evidence of meeting #81 for Finance in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was havens.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

John Kowalski  Acting Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Program Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Brian McCauley  Assistant Commissioner, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Wayne Adams  Director General, Income Tax Rulings Directorate, Policy and Planning Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Fred O'Riordan  Director General, Compliance Program Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Elizabeth Kingston

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

Good morning, committee members.

Good morning, guests.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2),

The committee is holding an information session on tax evasion and tax havens.

This morning we have witnesses from Canada Revenue Agency with us. Gentlemen, we appreciate your being here.

We have a wish to make a point of order from Ms. Wasylycia-Leis, which I'll get to in a moment, but first I'll finish welcoming the guests. We've designated time today from 11 until 1 o'clock. We'll see how that goes with committee members, and see whether that amount of time is required or not.

Also, I should mention that Finance officials notified us that they are not available until next week, so we will pursue that, but we do have a full panel for Thursday, so we look forward to that at that time.

Madam Wasylycia-Leis.

11:05 a.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I have a notice of motion to be dealt with today. Could we start with that?

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

No, we won't. We'll have the witnesses first. But I will endeavour, depending on the response from committee members as to questions, to make sure we do have it at the end of the day, and we'll deal with it at that time, if that's all right.

11:05 a.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Could I have a specified time as opposed to having it tagged on at 1 o'clock?

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

I'm pretty confident we'll be able to fit it in, unless we spend too much time debating when, in which case we may not.

11:05 a.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Well, I would like sufficient time to present the issue, and I would like to request the procedure from you, Mr. Chairperson, for the future. I'm told, with respect to motions, that when we request that they be put on the agenda, they shall be dealt with.

I have tried persistently to see if there's a way to get this done in a fair way that is not intrusive to the committee work—

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

No, that's good, and I—

11:05 a.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

—and I don't seem to have any luck at being able to find a reasonable time.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

That's enough. Yes, thank you very much.

I've always dealt with motions when they've been raised in the course of the meetings where members have asked them to be raised and will continue to do so. I will not make an exception in your case. We'll deal with your motion today.

11:05 a.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

All right.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

What I'm pointing out to you, though, is that we have witnesses here available, so let's deal with it at the end of the meeting. We'll make sure there's time available, and if necessary, if it absolutely has to happen, we may even extend the meeting past 1 o'clock, depending on the will of the committee. I will deal with your motion today. I will not deal with it now.

We'll move to the witnesses now.

I understand there's an opening presentation. Will Mr. McCauley make that or will Mr. Kowalski?

Mr. Kowalski, thank you. Please proceed.

11:05 a.m.

John Kowalski Acting Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Program Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

This morning I'm joined by a number of other officials from the Canada Revenue Agency, including Brian McCauley, assistant commissioner, legislative policy and regulatory affairs branch; Wayne Adams, chief technical officer for the Canada Revenue Agency and director general, income tax rulings directorate; as well as Fred O'Riordan, director general, international large business directorate, compliance program branch.

I would also note, given that we received the invitation to appear from the committee mid-morning yesterday, that we have a number of additional officials in the room who, depending on the question, and with the concurrence of the chair, could be asked to respond as subject matter experts.

Mr. Chairman, we are pleased to be here this morning.

The CRA is very active in taking action to identify, deter and challenge non-compliance with tax laws. We believe it is important to communicate more about what we do and why—to let taxpayers know about the risks and consequences of non-compliance, and to make sure that compliant taxpayers are fully aware that we do take action against those who do not comply.

On the subject of tax havens, I would like to share CRA's views, which are based on our role as tax administrators. Canada is part of a global trade and financial system. We know that countries compete to attract investors and trade partners, and we know that this competition extends to tax systems. Countries offer tax concessions and favourable tax rates to all or some industries and/or investors. Some of these competing countries are commonly referred to as tax havens.

Every country has the right to structure its tax system to meet its needs, and these are issues of tax policy for each country, not for tax administrations. Residents of Canada must report and pay tax on worldwide income. The CRA has no view on where Canadian businesses or individuals invest, so long as they report their income and pay taxes as required under Canada's tax laws. The CRA's concern lies not with the use of tax havens, but with the abuse of use of tax havens, for example, when taxpayers use bank secrecy laws or the absence of effective exchange of information provisions with other countries to conceal assets and income that should be taxed.

We are concerned where abusive schemes and transactions are being used to reduce, avoid or evade Canadian tax. We’re also concerned where these actions might influence others to do the same, or leave others with the perception that some are not paying their share of taxes.

We know that tax havens can attract tax avoidance promoters who actively provide opportunities to businesses and individuals so they can avoid their tax obligations. We are aware that unsophisticated investors can be lured into tax haven schemes and arrangements, where they ultimately lose their capital investment: this is not only damaging to the investors but also erodes the tax base.

We are also aware that advances in technology have increased the risks for both investors and tax administrations. For example, Internet access provides increased awareness of tax havens and allows promoters to actively attract individuals and businesses to avoid their tax obligations. Internet access also extends the prospect of abusive use of tax havens to middle-income Canadians. And electronic fund transfers facilitate the ease and privacy of transactions and make identifying transactions more difficult.

The issue of reducing, avoiding, or evading taxes through the abusive use of tax havens does not exist as a risk in isolation. It is an element of aggressive tax planning, which is one of the CRA's four key priority risk areas.

In general, the Canada Revenue Agency's strategy with respect to tax havens is to focus on schemes wherein people and businesses use a tax haven's bank secrecy laws and/or ineffective exchange of information provisions to hide assets and income upon which Canadian taxes should have been paid. Specifically, we have extensive audit programs, foreign reporting requirements, a number of specific anti-avoidance provisions in the Income Tax Act, and a broad network of 86 treaties.

We also have the general anti-avoidance rule, which is designed to prevent access to tax benefits that were not intended by Parliament.

Examples of these measures include our regular audits of small and medium businesses and large corporations, where the use of tax havens is an indicator of risk, and our more specialized audit programs that focus on international tax and tax avoidance issues.

As part of our strategy to combat aggressive tax planning, the CRA established 11 centres of expertise across the country in August 2005, creating teams of experts from the specialized audit areas of international tax and tax avoidance to, among other things, combat aggressive tax planning and the inappropriate use of tax havens and tax shelters, both at home and abroad.

We know that the abusive use of tax havens is an international issue, and we are working with other tax administrations and organizations to address it. For example, the CRA works with the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, including its seven-country tax haven working group, and the Joint International Tax Shelter Information Centre, or JITSIC. Indeed, the Canada Revenue Agency leads the seven-country tax haven working group. The group exchanges information and approaches to dealing with compliance challenges associated with the abusive use of tax havens. It comprises Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Japan, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

The second organization is the Joint International Tax Shelter Information Centre. It was established in April 2004, when the revenue commissioners from Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States signed a memorandum of understanding to increase collaboration and coordinate information about abusive tax transactions. The centre became operational in September 2004 in Washington, D.C. The CRA has had a delegate there since that time, staffed on a rotational assignment basis.

JITSIC's objectives include enhancing compliance through real-time exchanges of information, improving knowledge of how promoters operate, identifying emerging trends and patterns, and sharing best practices for identifying and addressing schemes.

Mr. Chairman, the CRA recognizes the challenges associated with the abusive use of tax havens and tax avoidance. This has been a long-term challenge, and we must continue to take the long-term view in addressing it, as initiatives, such as working with other countries and tax organizations, take time to bear results. We have been aggressively pursuing such abuses, and we intend to continue doing so.

We have some indicators that our actions are having an effect. For example, during 2005-06, the CRA assessed additional taxes of $174 million directly related to aggressive international tax planning, including the abusive use of tax havens. And in the first six months of 2006-07, the CRA assessed additional taxes of $215 million.

Mr. Chairman, that concludes our opening remarks.

Thank you.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

Merci beaucoup, Mr. Kowalski.

We'll continue, and begin with questions.

Mr. McKay, seven minutes.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, folks.

This inquiry is precipitated in part by the fact that the minister put in an interest deductibility clause in the budget, which seemed to be fairly broad brush. He was going to abolish all interest deductibility within a period of two years. He then amended his position to say we may have a longer period of grandfathering, and so he increased two years to ten years.

Now he appears to be going to issue a clarification, and he's going to drop the whole business of interest deductibility as a broad issue and he's going to be going after so-called double-dipping. Other than what the minister might know about a visit to Dairy Queen, I wonder if you could explain to the committee what the specific issue is around double-dipping, so-called.

11:10 a.m.

Brian McCauley Assistant Commissioner, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

We actually have prepared a little graphic on double-dipping that we could circulate and speak to. It is a fairly complex notion, and there's no better person in the country than Wayne, from a practitioner's point of view, to walk through that. So with the indulgence—

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Is that in order, Chair?

11:15 a.m.

Assistant Commissioner, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Brian McCauley

I was going to ask the chair—we had spoken to the clerk—if we could provide this.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

As long as it's not coming off my time, Chair.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

I don't have any problem with that. Is this information in both official languages?

11:15 a.m.

Assistant Commissioner, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Thanks very much.

11:15 a.m.

Assistant Commissioner, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Brian McCauley

We'll wait until the document comes around, because we were speaking of this, actually, last night around 9:30 when we were going through some of the papers for today. We thought it would be helpful.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Are there any other documents you want to circulate at this point?

11:15 a.m.

Assistant Commissioner, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency

Brian McCauley

That's it.

I would also observe that this is no comment or observation on the Minister of Finance's proposals. It's our depiction of what we have seen in terms of what we would characterize as double-dipping from an administrator's point of view.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Brian Pallister

Feel free to proceed. Members will get the document very quickly now.