Finance Committee on Sept. 28th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Laforest.

We'll go to Mr. Cannan. You have seven minutes.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our guests. As the member of Parliament for Kelowna—Lake Country in British Columbia, it's great to be here and to have your voices heard in our province.

It is good to see Mayor Jackson again. We had a chance to meet with metro Vancouver mayors last year, and it was very good to hear the news, with Premier Campbell and our federal government, in partnership with the infrastructure money, having that money flowing. It is very timely seeing as the Union of British Columbia Municipalities conference is taking place in Vancouver this week. I note the fact that it is very timely and very important to get those dollars flowing for infrastructure projects throughout the province.

Specifically with regard to your concerns with flood protection and dredging, Mayor Jackson, I just want to know if metro Vancouver has taken a position for the whole Fraser, or are you just looking specifically today on behalf of the Ladner area?

[Lois E. Jackson]

If I could be so bold, sir, as chair of the metro Vancouver board, we oversee about 2.5 million people in the lower mainland. As you can see from the map—and it goes only a little north of Pitt Meadows—this entire area is subject to flooding. As the silt continues to come down every year, you can appreciate that we have a diking system that is very formidable in this entire area. The diking system that was put in place with the help of the provincial government some 15 to 20 years ago with the Fraser River flood control program could be in jeopardy in some areas, because if you have a dike that is at this level and the bottom of the river used to be at this level and it continues to rise with the silt, at some point in time you can actually see the bottom of the river surpassing the height geodetically of your diking system. It is a very important point to be made, particularly when last year and the year before the mighty Fraser was very close to overspilling its banks, and that would be an absolute disaster for the entire lower mainland.

We believe in prevention, but as you know, local government only receives 8¢ of every tax dollar collected in this country. The federal government gets, I believe, 48¢ and the province gets 42¢. The local government cannot, nor can the metro government, take on the responsibility solely on the back of the property tax, where so many people, obviously, are looking after all of the functions, from policing, to engineering, to parks and recreation, and all of those facilities that are needed at the lower government.

So we are turning to the federal government in order to continue on with metro Vancouver's major problem in terms of the silting up. As you can see, the lines go right off the page. We're going right up, basically, to the town of Hope, through Kent and Harrison and so on. Chilliwack is another area very vulnerable to siltation.

I'm sorry I'm giving such a long answer, but it certainly is a question and a problem for the entire lower Fraser.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

I think it's very important to clarify that. I spent nine years in local government and a couple of years in the Union of British Columbia Municipalities, so I am well aware of when this downloading was passed from the federal government to the local government. I have discussed this challenge with my colleagues, specifically the MP in Delta, John Cummins, and how some of the port authorities have said they're not responsible for some of this dredging. A couple of years ago, when there was a real crisis with flood protection, we put tens of millions of dollars into dredging. Is that correct?

[Lois E. Jackson]

Yes. I believe that was the main channel.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

We continue to work with local governments and the ports, but is part of the problem that the ports are saying it's not their responsibility?

[Lois E. Jackson]

Yes, that is what we feel. With all due respect to the new port authority for metro Vancouver, I think they feel that their focus is the navigational deep-sea shipping channel, but the side channels that have been traditionally cared for by the other port authorities are not being tended to. It really has to be focused on. If it's the port authority in terms of long-term, sustainable funding to keep all the channels clear, certainly we would welcome that. If it comes from the federal budget, we would welcome that.

As you can see in our notes, there was also a comparative made in terms of the St. Lawrence Seaway, which doesn't need to be dredged from the bottom, but the icebreaker situation during the winter is a very good example of another Canadian city that has to have access to the waters, the navigational areas, the side channels, for major economic regions, and transportation of goods, services, and people.

As you can see in our notes once again, there is set aside an annual budget of $6.9 million through the federal government, for which we thank them. However, 80% of that is diverted to the St. Lawrence Seaway, which leaves a very small portion to be used in other areas of the country.

We're looking at the west coast in a similar fashion as needing some major help, and being able to identify the $5 million to remove the silt at this point, but the ongoing, sustainable funding is very critical to us.

Again, I apologize for my long answer.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you. I know some of those announcements last Thursday will help some of the communities along the way, and we'll continue to work with you.

With regard to Ms. Sinclair and the Public Service Alliance of Canada--

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You have about 20 seconds.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

--I just want to thank you for your work. I've worked with Dr. Clyde Hertzman, and I'm very familiar with the aspect of the importance of investing in children, as a grandfather of a two-and-a-half-year-old, and the malleability of the brain. So I appreciate your efforts there, and we continue to work with that.

The HST was actually introduced by Paul Martin and the Liberals. We're using the same formula for the provinces that adopt the HST throughout the country.

I just want to make sure the record states the fact that we don't have any say about the threshold. I've worked with the Canadian Home Builders Association in our province, and I am hoping the province will listen to them. They met recently and continue to--

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I'll leave that as a statement. Thank you, Mr. Cannan.

We'll go to Mr. Julian for seven minutes, please.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you very much, Chair. I welcome members of Parliament here to the lower mainland.

These consultations are so important that we actually have two members of Parliament here, myself and Mr. Davies. He's just there temporarily.

[An hon. member]

There's a new coalition in Ottawa.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

So, Mr. Chair, through you, I'd like to ask for unanimous consent, for the hearings held today, that I split my time with Mr. Davies.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Does Mr. Julian have unanimous consent?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Given that we're in a friendly environment, I'll just take the opportunity to give a friendly reminder to Mr. McCallum that he actually voted for the provisions of the HST that the Conservatives have brought forward and have caused, I think it's fair to say, a lot of concern in British Columbia. Here it's known as the Liberal-Conservative HST.

I'd like to start with you, Mr. Kemp, on the issue of the HST. Most indications have shown about a $500 penalty. This is a tax shift, so big business gets tax cuts, but the ordinary British Columbian will end up paying about $500 in additional taxes through this HST. You're suggesting today that, for the average rental unit, it would drive up the cost of construction of that unit by about $12,500. You refer to project viability in terms of increasing the annual rent required by $750 or more.

Just to be clear on that, you're suggesting that the average rent would go up for new units for renters by about $750. Is that correct?

[Al Kemp]

It's correct in theory. In practice, it's not, because British Columbia also has rent controls and it would not be possible to pass that through. I didn't raise that issue at all, because it's a provincial issue. We face a double restriction on our industry, where the government is increasing taxes—HST being a prime example in British Columbia—and the same government says you can't increase your prices. We're literally a unique industry in that respect, in that the landlord must find a way of absorbing the additional costs because he can't increase rents by more than 3.2% in 2010.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

So what you're suggesting is that those new rental units just will not be built.

[Al Kemp]

Well, new rental units will not be built primarily because of the federal tax policies that essentially say—I'm off my notes now—that if you want to build an apartment building, you must be stupid.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Okay. Thank you for that.

I'll move on, because I only have three minutes.

Ms. Montani and Ms. Sinclair, you were very eloquent on the issue of child poverty.

We've seen over the last 20 years figures even more shocking than those you've cited, Ms. Montani. Most families have actually seen a reduction in real income, ranging from 5% to 15%. So most Canadian families--about two-thirds of Canadian families--are earning less now than they were 20 years ago; appalling but true.

You're suggesting that for an investment of $5 billion per year we could achieve a reduction of nearly 40% in the after-tax child poverty rate?

[Adrienne Montani]

Yes, $5 billion per year would give us a child care system, and that would....

Are you talking about the Canada child tax benefit increase?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Yes.

[Adrienne Montani]

Then absolutely. It has already reduced child poverty. I don't have the statistic in my head, but it is measurable.

If we increase that, it will definitely lower the child poverty rate in this country.