Evidence of meeting #4 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was students.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you.
Mr. Keddy, you have a short round here, and then we'll finish up.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
I appreciate that. Mr. Van Kesteren is going to take the first question.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you all for being here. It was a great presentation.
Chief, I am going to go to you. I served in foreign affairs and we had quite a session with Dr. de Soto. There was some talk about his having come to see some of the first nations people, so you were obviously one of those groups.
I couldn't agree with you more. You said it, and I'm going to repeat it. Fundamental to any success of any society, for democracy, for just growing their economy, is property rights. As you know, we are working toward....
Could you tell this committee again the importance of having that ability to own a house and what changes that would make in your community?
4:35 p.m.
Chief, Whispering Pines Clinton Indian Band
In my little community, the best way I illustrate that is by the story of my dad and my mother. They are the first nations Brady Bunch. My dad had three kids and my mom had three kids. They got married. My dad's house was too small, so he built a larger house right beside his first house. We grew up and went to school and college and the whole thing. When my dad passed on into Heaven, he didn't have a credit card. Anybody else who owned two homes in Canada would probably be considered well off, but not my dad.
Before I became a chief, and I'm still wondering if that was a good idea, I was a banker. When we did our risk management systems analysis on our first nations clients, the first thing they taught us was to strike out the assets of their homes on their balance sheet.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Very often we hear of the plight that first nations reservations are hopeless, but what you're telling us is so fundamental, and it's something that can be so easily accomplished.
How is the unemployment rate in your band?
4:35 p.m.
Chief, Whispering Pines Clinton Indian Band
In my community, it's near zero, if not zero. I have one person on social assistance. That's Old Sue. She's got her grandkids, and we all hunt and fish for her. She's a lot of fun. As for the youth, one of my nephews tried to sneak in to get a welfare cheque. They brought it to us and I said, “No, you go out and literally cut trees down, buck wood, and sell it”. We put an ad in the paper, and he sold 40 loads of wood. That's how he got his winter money.
We invest a lot in post-secondary education. We have agreements with Spectra Energy, Kinder Morgan pipelines, West Fraser, and all these other companies. They provide us with education dollars they can get tax credits for. We have a very high graduation rate in post-secondary trade school, nurses, RPFs and that kind of thing. We graduate them and then they go and buy a house off reserve, because the one thing they learned in college is not to buy a house on reserve because it's not going to be worth anything when they're done paying for it.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Again, congratulations. I hope to visit your tribe.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
I will pledge to. I know on this side we'll pledge to make that a reality. Hopefully, we'll be able to present that to you.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Mr. Keddy, I'm sorry I won't get to you, but I want to thank our witnesses. It was an outstanding panel. Thank you so much for presenting to us.
Colleagues, I will suspend, and then we'll come back immediately after the vote.
5:17 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
I call this meeting back to order. This is meeting number four of the Standing Committee on Finance.
I want to welcome our second panel to the table. I appreciate all of you coming in. I thank you for your patience with respect to the unanticipated vote. I also am led to believe we will have a vote at about 6:40 p.m. Hopefully, we can go until about 6:30, but we'll try to push it as far as we can.
With us we have the Assembly of First Nations. We have Regional Chief Googoo. Welcome to the committee.
From the Canadian Alliance of Student Associations, we have the board chair, Amanda Nielsen. Welcome.
From the Canadian Medical Association, we have the vice-president, research and policy, Mr. Owen Adams.
From the Canadian Nurses Association, we have the CEO, Rachel Bard.
From the Fédération étudiante universitaire du Québec, we have Monsieur Jonathan Bouchard. Bienvenue à ce comité.
From Imagine Canada, we have Ms. Michelle Gauthier, vice-president, public policy and outreach.
Welcome to all of you. You have a maximum of five minutes for your opening statement. We'll begin with the AFN, please.
5:17 p.m.
Chief Morley Googoo Regional Chief, Assembly of First Nations
It is a pleasure to be here. I would like to welcome everyone.
I thank you for giving me the opportunity to present our first nation priorities. I know we have a short time together, and I will try to keep my remarks brief.
Over the past 10 years, the AFN has consistently outlined critical funding needs for first nation communities; however, there has been very little investment to respond to these needs.
Members of the AFN executive have provided the committee with a number of specific recommendations for investment in 2014. These are investments in community, safety, infrastructure and emergency management, and reconciliation. We trust that these will be given due consideration.
This evening I wish to focus my presentation on first nation education, as I am the lead chairperson for the national file.
Seeking quality education for our children has long been a priority for first nation families, communities and leadership. Since 1972 the first nation leaders have been pursuing control over their own education.
I am sure members are well aware of the federal government's proposal for first nation education. This certainly contains and highlights attention to this critical area.
The current federal system, the status quo, has consistently graduated approximately one in every three first nation students from high school. Since 1996 this has resulted in more than 106,000 first nation youth leaving high school without a high school diploma. This is not a situation we can allow to continue. I believe we all agree that action is needed immediately on first nation education. In the interest of our children and our nations, we must get it right, and we must get it right now.
Results prove that first nation-led solutions far exceed the status quo. Results also demonstrate that all governments must work in true partnership with first nations to achieve these outcomes. Successes are beginning to be achieved in those areas where first nations have control over their education and their own solutions have been implemented.
There is no one-size-fits-all approach. There must be a full respect for regional diversity. I am most familiar, as I am from Nova Scotia, with the Mi'kmaw Kina'matnewey Agreement. Since we have been collecting data, we have seen graduation rates of 87% and higher, which consistently far exceed the provincial rate. Children are leaving the system, from several schools, being fluent in Mi'kmaw reading and writing.
Like Mi'kmaw Kina'matnewey, first nation education systems must foster hope and opportunity, respect first nation rights and be grounded in first nation cultures and languages. This is a vision that first nations have put forward under “First Nations Control of First Nations Education”, a vision to support our children and our nation into the future. To achieve this vision, we must have guaranteed stable, predictable and sustainable funding for first nation schools. We know that first nation children attending school in their communities receive less funding than if they were attending a provincial school.
Since 1996 federal funding in first nation education has been capped at 2% per year, despite a steady growth in both inflation and the first nation student population. Over the same period of time, provincial and territorial school systems have invested more than 4% per year, even though most systems have realized a significant decline in student enrolment.
Let's think about it. Why is it that the federal government sends funding capped at 2% growth for schools within its jurisdiction, yet transfers funding with rates of growth of between 4% and 6% to schools within provincial jurisdiction to do the very same thing, educate first nation students? This is unfair and unacceptable. Over time this has contributed to an ever-growing gap, leaving first nation schools and first nation students behind.
It is important to take a minute to describe what first nation means when we say there is a need for stable, predictable, and sustainable funding. Stable funding has long been a major issue of first nations who try to balance their education budgets.
In 2002 to 2012, more than half of the funding transferred to first nation schools was proposal based or discretionary. Receiving core funding through a stable funding schedule would allow first nations to engage in multi-year planning with their communities and education partners.
Predictable funding would be realized through the development of a new statutory first nation education funding formula. This formula would ensure that first nation schools are funded for the education components of new languages, cultures, and customs. It is critical that a new first nation education funding formula be developed jointly with first nations.
Sustainable funding speaks to the importance of annual escalators. A new first nation funding agreement and formula should include appropriate escalators that account for the change in education cost, inflation, population increase, socio-economic disparities, geographic considerations, and capital needs. These funding indices for education are generally accepted factors for the development of education funding mandated in provincial and other jurisdictions around the world.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
5:20 p.m.
Regional Chief, Assembly of First Nations
Yes, I have one minute left.
5:25 p.m.
Regional Chief, Assembly of First Nations
Such a guarantee must provide fair funding that reflects the unique challenges of our school, immediately resolve ongoing discriminatory gaps in funding between our students and others, and ensure that it can sustainably keep pace with the growing needs and modern realities of first nation students. Also critical for the success of our students is to support the development of first nation run education systems.
I'll end my presentation there. More importantly, I think it's a prime time and a critical point in that we've worked hard to advocate both federally and in the communities that education is a priority for first nations and for government. We've made large strides to get there. We just need to make sure that we continue that dialogue.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you very much for your presentation.
Ms. Nielsen, please.
5:25 p.m.
Amanda Nielsen Board Chair, Canadian Alliance of Student Associations
Good evening, Mr. Chair, committee members, and fellow presenters.
It is my pleasure this evening to present the pre-budget priorities of the Canadian Alliance of Student Associations on behalf of our 24-member associations across Canada. We represent about 300,000 folks from coast to coast.
Canada's students are the nurses, teachers, tradespeople and managers of the future. As Canada's economy continues to grow and change, it is increasingly vital for more individuals to access education and training at Canada's post-secondary institutions. Indeed, as we continue to recover from the global recession, immediate access to knowledge and skills is crucial for people making mid-career transitions and for those who seek to return to the workforce after periods of unemployment. Further, Canada's population is aging and this change will necessitate that every Canadian worker is as productive as possible in the years to come. Taken together, these realities point to the importance of a post-secondary education system that is more accessible and of the highest quality,
On behalf of CASA, I submit the following recommendations for federal action as a means to eliminate barriers to retraining and give Canadians an opportunity to pursue stable and meaningful employment.
In budget 2011, the Canada student loans program was changed by increasing the in-study income exemption from $50 a week to $100 a week. This opened financial assistance to more students and increased aid to students to help them work and make ends meet. With the rise in costs of education, working while studying has increasingly become the norm for students. In 2011, 60% of students who graduated reported working an average of 18 hours a week, a pretty significant number of hours.
Under the current policy, an average working student who pursues financial assistance will see nearly $2,900 removed from their financial assistance package every year. They'll need to guess what their income will be each year, losing financial support if they guess too high and suffering repayment penalties if they guess too low. This could then deprive them of loan support in the following year. In Canada nobody should be punished for earning an income, especially students who need additional income to pay for school and to obtain employment experience to make a successful transition into the workforce.
The federal government should exempt all in-study income from the Canada student loans program's assessment of resources. We estimate that this would cost $25 million annually and would eliminate the guesswork and red tape for students when they are applying for student loans.
In 2011-12, nearly 43,000 applicants were denied access to a student loan. At the same time, 29% of loan recipients had greater financial assistance than the government would provide. Our research at CASA has shown that as many as 14% of students are relying on additional private loans to fund their education. This is a result, of course, of rising education costs and flat-level loan amounts.
The Canada student loans program hasn't updated its weekly loan limit for students since 2004, so it has been a while. CASA recommends that the federal government increase its CSLP weekly loan limit from $210 a week to $245 a week. This reflects increased costs for students with the highest financial need. Making this change would give students $150 million per year in their pockets, while costing the government a non-recoverable cost of $44 million per year.
Finally, for people making mid-life career changes and those adapting to new technologies, often there is a need to retrain. According to Canada student loans program figures, individuals over the age of 25, mature learners, account for 34% of post-secondary students today. That being said, they only account for 20% of student loan recipients, so there is a gap. It is evident through this that the Canada student loans program could be better geared toward mature learners who have been shown to have higher levels of financial need, when they do qualify at all.
Asset assessment policies are particularly discouraging for mature learners when deciding whether or not to return to school. The standing Canada student loans program policy requires that individuals liquidate the majority of their personally held savings and assets. Returning learners who need assistance must use every dollar of their RRSP that exceeds $2,000 per year to pay for school. That is $790 less than the average annual RRSP contribution for Canadians. Further, CASA recommends an exemption of $10,000 in personally held financial assets. This change would remove a crucial barrier to retraining. In Canada nobody should have to choose between their retirement and making a contribution to the workforce.
Thank you very much. I look forward to your questions later.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you very much, Ms. Nielsen.
We'll go to Mr. Adams now, please.
5:30 p.m.
Owen Adams Vice-President, Research and Policy, Canadian Medical Association
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and committee members, for the opportunity to participate in your pre-budget hearings. I've been asked to appear on the topic of helping the vulnerable.
The CMA believes there are many groups that are vulnerable in Canadian society, but it is particularly timely to focus on health care for seniors. This is because our health care system simply isn't ready for the challenge of an aging population.
I regret to say that preparing for our aging society is becoming a race against the clock. The first wave of baby boomers turned 67 this year. By 2031, seniors will account for one-quarter of the population, nearly double the 14% in 2009, and at that time that 14% already accounted for 45% of provincial and territorial health expenditures.
It's not hard to do the math on what this trend will do to the sustainability of our health care system in less than two decades, and it is not hard to understand why the CMA is strongly urging the federal government to invest in a pan-Canadian strategy for continuing care focused on seniors. We believe Ottawa is best positioned to bring together all levels of government to develop and execute such a pan-Canadian strategy to integrate everything from home care and long-term care to end-of-life and palliative care. This is about spending smarter as much as it is about investment.
Currently there is an unofficial policy of keeping seniors in acute-care hospital beds when they should be either in home care or long-term care. In Canada we call this limbo status alternate level of care, or ALC. That's essentially code for not knowing where to put them, or not having a place. Currently this status accounts for roughly three million ALC bed days a year.
Now, when you think that a hospital bed costs $842 a day to fill versus $126 for a long-term care bed, moving ALC patients from hospital beds to long-term care facilities would save at least $2.3 billion a year.
This is what spending smarter looks like, but we need investment up front to get rid of the shortage of long-term care beds and home care assistance to make savings like that achievable. It's very important for long-term care facilities to qualify for infrastructure funding to address something that is undermining the efficiency of the Canadian health care system. Of course, investment like this would prepare us for what many have called the tsunami of coming demand for seniors care in the future.
The CMA released a public opinion poll in August which found that nine out of ten Canadians believe we need a pan-Canadian strategy for seniors care, and that an equal number believe that a seniors strategy, by providing alternatives to hospital beds, would improve the overall health care system.
We believe there is public acceptance out there for some bold innovations by public policy-makers.
On that note, I look forward to answering your questions on how we can make the health system better.
Thank you very much.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
5:30 p.m.
Rachel Bard Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Nurses Association
Good evening. Bonsoir. On behalf of the more than 150,000 registered nurses for whom the Canadian Nurses Association represents, thank you for inviting me to join you today.
You've convened this panel to address helping vulnerable Canadians. These are people who are marginalized from society because of their income, age, or because they are newcomers to this country. These are people who are living with mental illness or struggling with substance abuse. They are people who deserve respect, dignity, and compassion, not labels. Stripping away the labels will help foster honest and productive conversations to properly examine the issue and advance real solutions.
Our first recommendation is that the federal government ensure Canadians have access to affordable adequate and safe housing by renewing federal funding for the $2.7 billion in expiring annual operating funds for social housing providers. There are very real consequences when a person's housing situation is unsafe or unstable. Recent outbreaks of tuberculosis in Saskatchewan and Manitoba have been linked to poor ventilation and mould. As nurses who see the consequences first hand, we stress how important it is for government to maintain investment in the construction and operation of affordable housing, a major determining factor in a person's good health. Adequate housing can lead to better health status, both mental and physical, and reduce the effect of poverty on Canadians and Canada's resources.
Our second recommendation is a specific intervention: authorizing nurse practitioners to provide drug samples and to be signatories on federal forms. Take the experience of one of our members in Manitoba as a nurse practitioner working in the community clinic. She had a patient who needed to complete a disability tax credit form, but since CRA does not recognize NPs as signatories, that patient had to search for a physician to complete the form, even though the nurse practitioner is the patient's primary care provider.
The other recommendation is on the Food and Drugs Act, which prohibits nurse practitioners from distributing samples of drugs, even though provincial, territorial and federal laws allow nurse practitioners to prescribe these drugs. If you're wondering how important samples are, they are very important. A person with diabetes, for example, often must try different medications to find which one works best for them. Those trials become expensive quickly, if they do not have a drug plan. Both of these measures, providing drug samples and signing federal forms, effectively improve a patient's access to care, especially for those Canadians in financial difficulty, seniors and people with disabilities.
Our final recommendation calls for a comprehensive policy development, ongoing commitment, and immediate action. We recommend a consolidation of national efforts by creating an aging and senior care commission of Canada. By establishing this commission, the federal government could promote and safeguard the health, engagement, and productivity of Canadians as they age, which would in turn create savings across the health care system and improve sustainability for generations to come.
This commission would be funded for 10 years and would be responsible for developing and implementing a senior strategy that focuses on the following pillars: promoting the health and well-being of Canadians as they age; bolstering supportive chronic disease prevention and management through caregiver resources and community-based primary health care; and increasing system capacity around issues such as dementia and end of life.
Central to this is the recommendation that the federal government invest in a health innovation fund that could immediately support pan-Canadian aging for the care priorities of seniors. This fund would support infrastructure and drive implementation of the commission's recommendations. While this represents a large investment, it is in line with the scope and magnitude of the demographic shift we are facing. It is what we need to enable Canadians to age with dignity and receive care in familiar surroundings.
Thank you for your time today. I look forward to answering questions.
5:35 p.m.
Conservative