Finance Committee on Oct. 7th, 2014

[Jayson Myers]

—across the country, even though the total levels of sales are actually at record highs.

But we're seeing very different things within manufacturing and the business of manufacturing, because some of those jobs have disappeared and some of the companies have. It was very easy to manufacture in Canada when the dollar was at 65¢. Today it's more challenging. Many of the jobs that were traditionally within a manufacturing company, such as engineering jobs, are still there, but they're in the services sector instead. A lot of the technology and software jobs are changing with the technologies there. So we have to look at a broader range of jobs, broader than just those within manufacturing: the whole of the services reconstructed around that.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

You can understand our concern, as a group of members of Parliament who will be putting forward recommendations, that when you look at what has traditionally been the heart and soul of the middle class in Canada, those manufacturing jobs, it's not a reclassification, but we've lost a fair chunk. I understand it's not uniform across the manufacturing sectors. Forestry, say, has taken a disproportionate hit over some of the others.

That's a staggering amount of jobs losses, considering the growth of the population over that time. If we had just stayed level, we would have increased manufacturing jobs in Canada proportionately. So it's not just 700,000; it's despite the population and, as you say, the production growing, and the general wealth of the country also growing.

To Mr. Mueller, in terms of the introduction and then cancelling, and then the reintroduction and then cancelling of the home retrofit program, what does that do to the industry, the small and medium businesses that were involved and engaged with Canadians around the home retrofit program? What was the impact on that industry?

[Thomas Mueller]

Well, I think probably as with any industry it creates a lot of uncertainty. These individuals who work in that field are particularly.... They're essentially energy auditors. They're very skilled in terms of working with the builders, once the innovation and the new build is under way, to identify how buildings can really be built to high energy efficiency standards. While builders have improved, they still do lack a deep expertise on how to build better homes around environmental performance.

Essentially what happens is that they go into other jobs. Some have started working for us on our program. I think there continues to be a growth in that industry, particularly in new home construction. You have to really distinguish between those two. There's a demand in new home construction for their expertise, but the business in existing homes has decreased.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Cullen.

We'll now go to the gentleman celebrating a birthday today, Mr. Van Kesteren.

[A voice]

Aw.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Happy birthday.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Listen, at my age we try not to celebrate those. We try to forget them instead.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

There's a brownie in the back for you.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you all for coming.

I want to go to you, Mr. Myers, just to follow up on what Mr. Cullen was saying, because that is a concern. We have lost a significant number, and yet when I read your proposals, I don't see.... Maybe I'm missing something in that. Obviously we want to grow jobs, but you're not suggesting that we can get those manufacturing jobs back, those ones that we lost?

[Jayson Myers]

There are a couple of things. I think we've lost a type of job as well as a number of people. We've lost jobs in areas of manufacturing that are low-value commodity products and low-value commodity jobs. Many of those were manual jobs on the shop floor. That's the type of job that has tended to disappear as companies have downsized. As well, a lot of people who were nearing retirement age took early retirement.

So we're not going to have the same people. It's not going to be the same job. It's not going be the same technology. But I can tell you that the other thing is that we'd be able to create an awful lot more jobs in manufacturing if we could find the people with the right skill sets to come into those jobs. I think that kind of speaks to some of the other issues we're facing about how we build up a system of education and training in this country that makes it easier for people to be employed in some very highly sophisticated businesses.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Do we do well in those areas? Are we good at the high-skilled manufacturing jobs?

[Jayson Myers]

I think when you take a look at the types of jobs in manufacturing, these are very well-paying jobs. They're not only middle-class jobs, they're knowledge-intensive jobs. Today even within manufacturing companies more and more of those jobs are not necessarily in actually producing things. They're skilled trades. They're services jobs in engineering and technology, and control and quality, and things like that.

We have some very, very highly skilled people, and as I say, it's not just in manufacturing. It's in all of the services and all of the other supporting industries around manufacturing that are so important.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

I want to ask you something. One of your budget asks is to eliminate the deficit in 2015, and the government has done that. In what respect do the sorts of things that Mr. Myers was talking about reflect on a policy of proper fiscal management at the federal level? How does that help in job creation and the people you represent and their stability in their businesses?

[Karen Atkinson]

Clearly, by restoring some of the investment in research and development and even education for those sectors, there will be a direct impact in terms of the number of jobs. That will obviously then increase the payroll taxes and the overall corporate taxes from those businesses resulting from those investments.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

I think you will both agree on the importance of trade agreements, because the types of jobs you're talking about cross borders much more quickly.

Is that why it's so important for us to continue with the trade agreements?

[Karen Atkinson]

Yes, and they lead to greater exports, which is critical for Canadian growth.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Jayson, did you want to add to that?

[Jayson Myers]

Yes.

Companies need customers, and it's customers who drive the innovation. It's customers who drive the new product development, the need for new technology, the retooling, and the skills that they require. The first thing is new customers.

The reality is that Canada is just too small. A number of markets.... North America has become too small. The customer base has to be global. I'm extremely optimistic that not only manufacturers but also Canadian businesses, if they're able to access those markets and we can support smaller companies in taking advantage of the opportunities, have a tremendous opportunity there for that type of innovation and skills development.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Van Kesteren.

Mr. Adler, please.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for being here this afternoon.

First of all, Mr. Myers, I'm glad that you mentioned the Enterprise Canada Network. There are some businesses in the riding that I represent, York Centre, that have taken advantage of that and have benefited and been able to expand their businesses and hire more workers. I'm glad you mentioned it, because it's really important that the Canadian manufacturer has actually started that and is having great success with it. I know first-hand that it is successful.

[Jayson Myers]

Thank you.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Murphy, I'm looking at this, and I'll preface what I'm saying by saying that I'm a co-op client, I am a member, I support co-ops, I always have, and I've been a member for many years. However, you come up with a figure of $50 million, and you say that it's going to create some 14,500-odd jobs.

Mr. Myers, how many members do you have?

[Jayson Myers]

We have about 10,000 members.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Okay.

With all due respect, if I were to give, Mr. Myers, any of your members $50 million, could they create 10,000 or 15,000 new jobs?