Evidence of meeting #9 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was jobs.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:40 a.m.
Vice-President, Policy and Environment, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
The workforce challenge to me is about growing Canada, not just looking at a few more skilled trades. We need the folks who support our business, the service sector, and the allied sectors like the restaurants and those kinds of things. We need to grow Canada.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Of course, the domino effect takes over. It doesn't matter what part of the country you grow in, the domino effect is right through Canada. Look at the manufacturing sector, for example, here in eastern Canada. If we threw, let's say, another 100,000 people into Saskatchewan or Alberta or both, what with the number of cars and the goods they would buy, it would be great for the whole country, provided that there were not any interprovincial trade barriers.
How would you look at that, Mr. Lavoie?
11:40 a.m.
Director, Manufacturing Competitiveness and Innovation Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters
You are right. The trade barrier is an important one. The Minister of Industry has pushed to reduce the internal trade barriers. We have suggested that labour mobility is another issue, especially for skilled trades.
It's also a bit ironic that the Province of Quebec has signed a labour mobility agreement with France, and yet we can't have a construction worker going from Ontario to Quebec.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
I'll stop there.
Chair, I'll turn my time over to Mr. Jean.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Thank you very much. I hope I get another opportunity. I have a lot of questions.
Oil and gas is very important to me. I'm from Fort McMurray and I have represented that area for 10 years.
When I hear Ms. Nash talk, I wonder what planet I'm on. In the last seven or eight years we've had I don't know how many megaprojects. They all require an investment of over $1 billion. You can't start an oil sands plant without a couple of billion dollars. How many billions of dollars of investment have there been in the last eight years in northern Alberta? You can't count that high.
11:45 a.m.
Vice-President, Policy and Environment, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
No, I can't, sorry.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
The truth is that it's probably somewhere around $20 billion to $35 billion that has been announced or that has been already started to be invested in that area. It's very significant and it certainly helps the Canadian economy.
In fact, Mr. Lavoie, I remember one particular example of a forklift company from southwestern Ontario whose representative said that he'd be out of business were it not for the oil sands, because more than 50% of his shipments of forklifts go to the oil sands.
Is that a fair comment in relation to what's happening, even with most of the manufacturing sector in southwestern Ontario and Quebec?
11:45 a.m.
Director, Manufacturing Competitiveness and Innovation Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters
We just finished a study that I can provide if you want. It's not only on the actual construction of the sites and stuff like that. We found there are a lot of manufacturers that also benefit from the maintenance year after year.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
I have 6,000 Quebeckers in my riding. I have the oldest francophone community in Alberta in my riding. I'm very proud of that. I have to tell you that we have a very active community there.
I am interested in market access. That's really what it's about. Right now we're discounting our oil. We're not receiving what we should, and it's shameful. How can we, as the federal government, change policy to create more access to more international markets?
11:45 a.m.
Vice-President, Policy and Environment, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
We've outlined a few broad ideas in the brief that I provided, but a lot of it is continuing the work the federal government has been doing, getting out there, being visible, telling the international communities, the U.S. in particular, how important this is for us. We are also strengthening some of that discussion domestically, building more public confidence so that we can get some of the pipeline corridors through and get some of the LNG plants built. There are a number of things we've outlined that the federal government can do.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much, Mr. Jean.
We're now going to go to apparently the most collegial member of the House of Commons, Mr. Rodger Cuzner.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
A lot of people thought they were voting for you, Mr. Chairman. You're sort of my evil twin.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
I don't know why. I'm much taller than you. I tower over you, Rodger.
11:45 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here today.
Mr. Atkinson, I want to echo your comments. Being a representative from Cape Breton, we've always had a large pool of skilled tradespeople who have worked on some of the biggest projects around the world, so mobility obviously is a big issue.
Going back to the apprenticeship stuff, we know that not even 50% of apprentices who begin programs complete those programs. In the initial investment on the tax credit program for apprenticeships, the government put in about $150 million, and they never used all of it. It had never been exhausted, and they have cut it back by about a third over the last couple of years.
We know that when surveyed the apprentices who would benefit from that tax credit, 90% of them said—and this is the government's own stats on it—they would have entered into the apprenticeship regardless of whether or not there was an incentive.
Is it the best vehicle to support apprentices, and is it the best vehicle to help with success with regard to pulling apprentices over?
Mr. Ferguson may want to comment on that too.
11:45 a.m.
President, Canadian Construction Association
Very quickly, on the completion ratios and rates, one of the concerns we have had is the way incompletions are counted. Unless they have rectified this, if I start my apprenticeship in Ontario and move to Alberta, I'm incomplete in Ontario even though I may succeed in Alberta.
Also, if my apprenticeship training leads to another position or occupation where I don't have to get the journeyperson status, for example, when building a refinery one of Mr. Ferguson's members employs me to work in that refinery and I don't need my ticket, if you will, I'm again considered incomplete even though my apprenticeship training has led to my being gainfully employed in an occupation I've been trained for.
I think the first question I would have is, are completion rates the correct benchmark for success for apprenticeship training? That's a question I have which I don't have an answer for, but I'd love to see an examination. That's number one.
Number two, I think the incentive grants have been helpful to apprentices; there's no question about it. My concern, however, is the incentive for employers to engage first-year and second-year apprentices through the apprenticeship job creation tax credit, as the incentive was gutted by the CRA ruling. I don't blame the CRA. They just said that's the way the thing was designed, hence this is the way we have to act.
My last point on that, is it's limited to Red Seal trades only. While Red Seal trades are important, there are a lot of trades that aren't Red Seal that are provincially recognized.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
There are only a couple of minutes, but this probably would be more for Mr. Columbus and Mr. Lavoie.
Parallel to any jobs that have been created, there has also been a 72% increase in the number of Canadians who are working for minimum wage. There has been a significant increase in the working poor.
I wouldn't see that probably in the oil sector, the gas sector, or construction sector, but I would see it in manufacturing and probably where you're involved. What has the trend been with wages?
11:50 a.m.
Director, Manufacturing Competitiveness and Innovation Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters
In general, the average weekly pay in manufacturing is about $300 more than the average in the economy. In certain sectors the labour costs have been increasing because of some labour shortages. If you go into regions where there are a lot of other projects, such as for example, shipbuilding and oil and gas, a lot of manufacturers would lose their engineers who want to go into these areas so they have to cope with that. A longer-term effect—
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
11:50 a.m.
Director, Manufacturing Competitiveness and Innovation Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters
On wages, yes, and in the longer-term trend, the impact of the higher currency brings your labour costs higher as well.
11:50 a.m.
Director, Finance and Administration, Northam Brands Ltd.
As a representative of small and medium-sized business, our company is a growing company, and we definitely do face the pressures of lower skilled individuals who earn a lower income.
The pressures we face on the competitive side are to create enough profitability, an appropriate profitability within the company, in order to compensate and invest more in our employees through their salaries and wages.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative