Thank you, Mr. Whyte.
Mr. Cuzner, please.
Evidence of meeting #9 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was jobs.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #9 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was jobs.
A video is available from Parliament.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Witnesses, thanks very much.
Mr. Whyte, you're saying that we have to prepare, and I agree wholeheartedly. It's like this skills shortage, perceived anyway, is hitting us like a runaway van.
For example, in terms of the people you represent, have you seen an increase in spending on skills development and training? Can you measure a noted increase in training for your sector?
November 21st, 2013 / 1:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association
Yes and no. Yesterday we had a meeting with the employment commissioner, and we had 24 groups, associations, around the table. All of them said that they feel the crisis coming. Then we talked about measurement of training. They were using the Conference Board and the OECD study that said Canada's not training as much as they should.
Then we asked this question.... This is a 10-year, 20-year problem that we continually let happen. All we measure is formal training. There are examples of where companies will be declining and they can get recognition for formal training as they're declining, but we don't measure informal training. That's the highest level of training.
I'll ask every one of the MPs around here, how much formal training have you had? Have you grown in experience? Absolutely.
That's informal training, and we need to track that.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
I don't mean to cut you off—I appreciate that answer—but we only have five minutes.
This question is probably for the CLC, but anybody else can answer this if they want.
You mentioned the minister's comments about having more skin in the game. I agree with you 100% on that, and I agree with the minister's comments on it. You know, with the jobs grant, if he would have brought new money to that program, I would have bought on and I would have been a cheerleader for that program.
What's the CLC's position on how this is being presented? Taking the money from the LMAs, how's that going to impact? We're hearing it from the provinces. Does CLC have a position on this?
1:20 p.m.
Senior Economist, Social and Economic Policy, Canadian Labour Congress
Absolutely. We think the LMAs are vital. Right now only about 37% or 38% of people qualify for EI.
The LMAs are structured to address training for vulnerable people who don't get EI. The LMAs are critical, because that's a larger group, and those are more vulnerable workers.
We think the Canada jobs grant is an excellent experiment if it's new money, but if it's not new money, we can't support it.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
You made sure we got that qualifier at the end of your comments.
On the employment rate, Mr. Stanford, you say that's the key part. The decline in the labour force participation is key. With EI rates going down, we're seeing, I think, even more people not being eligible to receive EI benefits.
I asked the last panel this, and perhaps I can get your comments on it. We're seeing 72% more Canadians working for minimum wage, so they're almost living in poverty. With two million unemployed, is there a measurement out there of those who are underemployed? Is there a measurement out there of those working so close to the line as to being close to living in poverty?
1:25 p.m.
Economist, Unifor
Well, the two million number does include some underemployment. It includes people who are working part-time but want and need full-time work. It also includes the discouraged workers who have left the official labour market. That's how you get from the official unemployment of 1.35 million to effective unemployment of over two million, using a broader definition of the unemployment rate.
If you then counted people who were employed, even full-time, but at very low wages or in ways that underutilize the skills they have.... You know, we often hear about the need for new skills, but Canadians are actually the best-educated workforce in the world. There are a lot of Canadians out there who have skills they aren't using fully in their jobs. I think underemployment is even bigger than the two million number that I cited.
1:25 p.m.
Liberal
1:25 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association
We have a lot of minimum wage workers who are making more than their employers.
1:25 p.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
And that is compounded by bad tippers like our chairman.
1:25 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
1:25 p.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
What's happening with these people who aren't engaging in the workforce? Anecdotally, I would think they're landing on provincial community service rolls. Are there any studies to do with where those people are? Is there an increase in community supports if they're not working?
1:25 p.m.
Professor, Institut de recherche et d'informations socio-économiques
There's maybe one small thing that's important. The decline in the unemployment insurance coverage rate is one of the factors that explains the growth in consumer credit. People aren't getting the unemployment cheques so they're using a credit card as their unemployment insurance. This is one of the big stories in this recession compared to other recessions. It's one of the big drivers in consumer debt. That's the social protection these people have now. They don't have access to what was traditionally social protection, so they use their credit cards
1:25 p.m.
A voice
At 22%.
1:25 p.m.
Professor, Institut de recherche et d'informations socio-économiques
Yes, exactly.
1:25 p.m.
Senior Economist, Social and Economic Policy, Canadian Labour Congress
I would just add that with the elimination of the National Council of Welfare, it's very difficult to get data on welfare rolls in Canada. That's a huge void.
1:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Cuzner. I'll just point out to the committee that he has never actually purchased anything that we've shared together, so that's why I can't comment on how he tips.
1:25 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
1:25 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I appreciate this opportunity and I appreciate all the witnesses coming in today.
I want to let you know I'm not sure if I'm okay to say this or not, but I was a member of CUPE for a while when I was much younger. I'm not sure if I'll be okay with that.
Fortunately, Mr. Adler didn't hear that.
You have, I think, 3.2 million members across Canada.
1:25 p.m.
Senior Economist, Social and Economic Policy, Canadian Labour Congress
We say 3.3 million.
1:25 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
Well, you can say 3.3 million; I don't mind that. Do you have 423,000 in Alberta?
1:25 p.m.
Senior Economist, Social and Economic Policy, Canadian Labour Congress
That sounds right.
1:25 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB
You have a lot more members per capita. For instance, we're about 11% of the population, and about 13% of all your union members in the whole country are in Alberta, so I'm just suggesting that there are a lot of union people in Alberta. In fact, I would say Unifor, for instance, now has, I think, 120,000 members. Is that correct? Is that across Canada?