Finance Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2023

[Céline Poncelin de Raucourt]

Thank you very much for your question.

First off, I can tell you that we're very sensitive to this issue. I am on the Quebec Minister of Higher Education's advisory committee, the Comité consultatif sur l'accessibilité financière aux études, or CCAFE. The committee regularly makes presentations to the government to raise awareness of the challenges of student financial accessibility, and of the fact that loans and bursaries are an essential strategic tool. Student debt is something to be carefully monitored.

Given the number of students we have at Université du Québec, we welcome any measures to alleviate this barrier related to the affordability. I don't wish to get involved in political relations, but I do know that long ago Quebec made important choices to make education as accessible as possible.

I believe that Quebec's loans and bursaries program is forward-thinking and very generous. Obviously, we can always improve it and promote greater accessibility to education.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Poncelin de Raucourt.

I'll move now to Mr. Gray and the Canadian Chamber of Commerce.

Mr. Gray, one of your members, the Calgary Chamber of Commerce, has questioned Danielle Smith's proposal to withdraw from the Canada pension plan, really questioning the true benefits for Albertans.

The Calgary chamber president, I believe, has stated, “We've benefited from being part of a bigger pool. That means the expenses are shared, the risks are shared.” She also added that the province cannot rely on the strong investment performance that the national fund enjoys.

Is that something you're hearing as well, Mr. Gray?

[Alex Gray]

I think the two threats I'm hearing most from businesses are concerns about labour mobility in terms of retirement funds being applicable across provinces, and how that would affect business operations. Any business that operates in Ottawa and Gatineau can tell you that moving employees across the border, even temporarily, is a tax nightmare and not necessarily worth the squeeze.

I take note from the absence of any mention in the throne speech and from the desire to not push forward to a referendum until a firm, final number is apparent and clear and decided upon, that there will be very little progress on this in the near future, which I think is something we're grateful for. Again, uncertainty in the business investing environment across provinces is not something that the Canadian Chamber of Commerce ever advocates for.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

However, you're aware, of course, of the Calgary Chamber of Commerce's position.

[Alex Gray]

Oh, absolutely. Yes.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Do you share the Calgary Chamber of Commerce's position?

[Alex Gray]

Yes. I think that's right.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Gray.

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

You have one minute.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to put the following motion on notice. I will read it into the record:

That the chair of the committee immediately report to the House that the committee:

1. Celebrates the Canada Pension Plan as the foundation of a secure and dignified retirement for tens of millions of Canadians and a pillar of Canada's economy;

2. Recognizes the important contribution of the Quebec Pension Plan, which was established independently at the same time as the Canada Pension Plan; and

3. Stands with the majority of Albertans who are opposed to Premier Danielle Smith's dangerous plan to withdraw from the Canada Pension Plan, which threatens the pensions of millions of seniors and hard-working Canadians from coast to coast.

I understand, of course, that putting this on notice today means that we will be able to vote on it at a future meeting.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

We can vote on it in 48 hours, yes.

That is your time, PS Bendayan.

Now we are on to our third round, members, and this will be our final round.

It will be MP Morantz, please, for five minutes.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to turn the mike over to Mr. Hallan for a moment. He has a couple of motions he would like to introduce.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Thanks, Marty.

Mr. Chair, I would like to move two motions quickly. I don't want to take up too much time, so—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Are you moving or are you giving notice?

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

I'm giving notice.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Okay. We heard the word “move”, but it is giving notice.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to give notice of two motions today.

The first notice is of the following motion:

That the committee concur in and report to the House the comments made by the Governor of the Bank of Canada at his appearance at the finance committee on October 30, 2023, when he admitted that Trudeau's carbon tax is inflationary and that if it were repealed it would slow inflation by “0.6%”.

The second one I'd like to put on notice is the following:

That given recent media reports that the Public Health Agency of Canada lost $150 million dollars on an unfulfilled contract last year and won't say why, and given that the finance committee is empowered to consider and review budgetary policy, including government spending, the committee undertake a study of the Canada public health agency's unfulfilled contracts, including the lost $150 million in taxpayers' money for an unfulfilled contract with an undisclosed vendor; that the witness list include, but not be limited to, the President of the Public Health Agency of Canada, the Parliamentary Budget Officer, the President of the Treasury Board and the Minister of Health; that the study take no more than four meetings; that the committee report its findings to the House; that the committee send for all documents and emails related to the $150-million unfulfilled contract; that the unredacted documents and emails be received by the committee no later than one month following the passage of this motion; that any redactions of the documents or emails due to privacy be made only by the Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel of the House of Commons; and that these documents be posted on the committee's web page.

Thank you.

I'll turn it back over to my colleague.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Go ahead on a point of order, Mr. Ste-Marie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

I thank my colleagues for their motions, but the interpreters have pointed out to us that these were not the version of the motions distributed to them. Therefore, the interpretation could not be done correctly. I understand that this is a notification issue and that we will have time to receive them in writing in both official languages. We can then take them into account.

I wanted to point out what the interpreters had told us.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Mr. Ste‑Marie.

Please, members, when you present anything that may be detailed and we want to capture that language, make sure that you're clear and concise with your information, so the interpreters can capture that.

If you can, please submit those to the members and to the clerk. That would be appreciated.

MP Morantz.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

You have two minutes and 20 seconds.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

In that time I want to give Ms. Oliver a chance to talk about real-time rail.

One thing I'm interested in, Ms. Oliver, is that in your brief you say, “We share the concerns of former Bank of Canada Governor David Dodge that 'Canada's apparent complacency in bringing key elements of its financial system into the digital age is a result of a lack of political will'”.

Could you comment on your concerns in that regard vis-à-vis the federal government?

[Jessica Oliver]

Sure. We did include that in our submission, and I noted that my counterpart at Questrade, who presented last month, also shared that quote, so it very much represents a shared sentiment across our sector.

A global review of real-time payments that was undertaken by ACI and looked across the globe is reported to have found that “government mandates are almost a basic requirement for banks and payments firms to move to real-time payments, and governments are realizing that real-time...can help boost their economies.”

I think it's supported by the U.S. Federal Reserve moving forward with FedNow, despite the presence of privately-owned payment rails. They project that FedNow, their version of RTR, will help reduce $10 billion dollars of late and insufficient fees that individuals and businesses face.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I just want to highlight one other thing in your brief. It says:

The end result is that Canadians and small businesses continue to face high fees—some of the highest in the world—every single time they make a payment. At a time when budgets are stretched for both consumers and small businesses, these costs are difficult to bear and inequitable.

That's a very strong statement, and I'll go back to my initial question. I know there are only a few seconds. In terms of cost-efficiency for consumers, what would this policy mean if it were implemented?