Finance Committee on Nov. 17th, 2023

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I think I'm good. Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Morantz.

Now we're going to MP Baker, please.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thanks very much, Chair.

I have questions for a couple of our witnesses today.

First of all, it's interesting, when we talk about Canada's.... I know we're here to hear about the challenges that folks are facing and how we can solve them.

Maybe you were thinking, as you heard your colleagues present here at committee, what a tough job the finance minister has. There are so many asks that come to us, and all of that has to be.... To the extent that finance is involved, that funding has to be found somewhere. At the same time as we're hearing about those asks—and they're all very important, and we've all taken note of them—we're hearing about the importance of managing the fiscal books responsibly and making sure that we're not taking on too much debt and everything.

Right now, for example, Canada's debt-to-GDP and deficit-to-GDP are the lowest in the G7. Our economy bounced back quicker than any other after COVID. There are some things, to my mind, that we should be celebrating in this country as well, in terms of our economic prosperity and how the last eight years have been managed—especially the last few years.

On the issue of the cost of living crisis that folks are facing and that my constituents are facing, it's the number one issue I hear about from folks every day, whether it's on housing or whether it's on the cost of living. Usually, it's on groceries. Sometimes, it's on energy as well.

We've studied this issue. We've had people come to us and present on what's causing inflation. Inflation in Canada is lower than in most of our G7 counterpart countries. That said, the main causes, they say, are extreme weather events driven by climate change—the agricultural community keeps coming to us and saying this is the main reason that food prices are going up for them—and the war in Ukraine and Russia's blockade of Ukrainian food exports, which are causing global food prices to go up.

In terms of affordability, one of the things we're trying to do is address the root causes, so making sure that Ukraine wins the war as soon as possible and making sure that we're fighting climate change.

To the extent that there are arguments for why we should stop action on climate change, I'm reluctant to do that. It's not just because I care about the future of our planet, but because I care about affordability and the economic costs if we don't act.

I'd like to ask you this, Ms. Anderson. One of the things you asked for.... I'm a business person by background. I have two business degrees. I used to be a management consultant. I get the important work that business does and how important it is to have a growth agenda and support a growing economy. You have me there.

My question is on the taxation front. You talked about the taxation burden that businesses face. One of the challenges I face is that when I go back to Minister Freeland and say I think we should reduce this tax on anybody or on any business, I also need to bring the solution as to how I would pay for that.

I get that economic growth over time helps pull in some revenue, but that takes time. In the short run, the funds need to be found. I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts for us on.... To the extent that you're asking us to cut taxes, are you suggesting that we raise taxes in other areas to pay for that? Are you suggesting that we cut spending in certain areas to pay for that? Are you suggesting that we not adjust in any particular way?

I'd love your thoughts on that. It's not a rhetorical or difficult question, but it's a practical one for us.

[Bridgitte Anderson]

I think it's important that you're talking about it. You mentioned cutting taxes, and I mentioned simplifying the tax system. I think the two are quite different.

Canada is an incredibly complex place to do business. We have a very complex tax system. We have a complex regulatory system. All of those are costs to businesses.

We are looking at a situation where in British Columbia 70,000 people are coming in every year, and we have to have the infrastructure to make sure those people feel welcome in our communities. There has to be an economic growth agenda to do that.

On your question about cutting taxes, you could flip it on its end if you want. What about incentivizing businesses to invest in their own businesses? There are many ways to do that, whether it's through an incentive for business inputs or technology or, as we spoke about, incentivization for businesses to upskill their workers.

Overall, the tax system can be simplified. That would be a big help not only for businesses in Canada that are operating right now, but also for attracting investment into Canada. It is a global stage. When a company from overseas is looking at where to put their dollars, they want to put their dollars where it's welcoming, where it is a good tax environment and where there's also certainty in doing business. “Certainty” means a simplified tax system and a simplified regulatory system.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Just for clarity, you're asking for a simplification—

[Bridgitte Anderson]

I asked for both. I asked for cutting taxes, but I think that primarily what we're talking about in our recommendations is an overhaul of the tax system to simplify the tax system. I think there are other areas where there could be incentivization for businesses, which would be a reduction in certain areas. That then spurs economic growth.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you so much, MP Baker.

Although we did start about 10 minutes past the scheduled time when we were set to start, we are going to allocate a minute to each party to ask a final question of or make a comment to our witnesses before we conclude this first panel.

We're starting with MP Morantz, please.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all the panellists. It's very important that we have these meetings and travel across the country to hear from stakeholders from different regions of the country.

Ms. Watson, I want to circle back to you. I mentioned that, earlier this year, we had a number of executive directors of food banks at the finance committee, mainly from the Toronto and Ottawa regions. We heard testimony that in some cases people coming to food banks were so desperate, so downtrodden, that they were actually talking about seeking medical assistance in dying. Have you heard any of these types of accounts, or are you aware of those things?

[Treska Watson]

No, I have not heard any of those accounts.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

That's time.

Thank you, MP Morantz.

We will go to MP Dzerowicz, please.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you.

I too want to thank you for being here today. Thank you for being patient with our questions.

I will continue with you, Ms. Anderson, just in terms of continuing the conversation you had around simplification.

One of the other things we've heard from former bank governors and current economists is that, if we want to grow our GDP in Canada, we have to reduce our interprovincial trade barriers. One of the key recommendations that has come up consistently at our meetings over the last few weeks has been for a first step, which would be to actually create a registry of those interprovincial trade barriers so that you could know what they are, make them transparent and then start tackling them.

Is that something you would be supportive of as a business community and that B.C. would be supportive of?

[Bridgitte Anderson]

Yes, and thank you for the question.

The Greater Vancouver Board of Trade is part of a group called the Canadian Global Cities Council. We are boards of trades or chambers from the nine largest cities across Canada. We have a long-standing recommendation to reduce interprovincial trade barriers.

One really good one in British Columbia, which I will leave you with, is around B.C. wine. We are not able to sell or send B.C. wine without barriers to Ontario, Quebec or Saskatchewan. Indeed, we are very much in favour of a registry and of simplifying that process—absolutely.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Thank you, MP Dzerowicz.

Next is MP Ste-Marie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Anderson, I completely agree with you. In Quebec, we want more wine from British Columbia.

Mr. Holman, I enjoyed your presentation. I invite you to complete your comments in one minute.

[Alex Holman]

Thank you very much.

To summarize things, we've been having a lot of discussions in this country about open banking—that it's the biggest issue in the banking and financial sector. To me, when I hear that, I think it's the biggest issue because it has taken so long. That's why it's the biggest issue.

For me and from my perspective and for indigenous peoples in this country, the biggest issue in the banking and financial sector is the inability of people living on reserve to build wealth in the way that Canadians do: through home ownership. Providing that type of wealth and those wealth-building opportunities to people living on reserve and making those connections between Canadians and indigenous entrepreneurs as well, I think that's a serious problem that right now is being discarded and isn't getting the kind of attention and innovation that it really deserves.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, MP Ste-Marie.

MP Julian, you'll be our last questioner for this first panel.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank our witnesses for bringing a Lower Mainland, B.C., perspective to the finance committee. This is extremely important. You've underscored the importance of investments in housing and investments in infrastructure, ensuring that we are actually lifting people up right across the country.

I think the B.C. NDP government has certainly shown the example in terms of both the housing that is being built in B.C., more than in the rest of the country combined, and putting in place a number of initiatives to support British Columbians. This is something that hopefully the finance committee's permanent members will take back to Ottawa as part of their report.

I want to give the final word to the chair of Metro Vancouver. In the final seconds, can you give us what you feel we need to take back to ensure that the needs of the people of metro Vancouver are met?

[George Harvie]

We're in a housing crisis. We're in a day care crisis. We're in a fentanyl crisis. We're in an infrastructure crisis now. Without the federal government's help, which was promised to us, we can't do what the federal government wants us to do insofar as providing more housing is concerned. The province is working with us to provide more housing. Without that infrastructure investment, it's just not going to happen.

That's the basics. It's being able to build new homes that have services that will allow the toilet to be flushed and that will allow drinking water to be there and that will allow showers to happen. We can't do that. The only areas we can expand are in the eastern part of metro Vancouver, the township of Langley and the areas of Surrey and Maple Ridge. Those are unserviced. We have to provide an extension of metro Vancouver services to them. That includes megaprojects like having another source of drinking water other than Coquitlam Lake. That involves tunnelling. It involves massive amounts of money to ensure that infrastructure is built. We need your help.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

Thank you, MP Julian.

Thank you to the witnesses. Thank you for your expert testimony for our pre-budget consultations and report. The analysts have captured everything you've said, but there may have been things you were not asked or things you would like to bring to the committee. I would ask that you make any of those submissions through the clerk. We'll be able to get those to the analysts so that they can study them—and the members can—and it will be part of our report.

With that, we thank you and wish you a wonderful afternoon. Thank you for your hospitality here in beautiful British Columbia.

We will suspend right now as we get ready for our second panel.

Thank you, everyone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

I call the meeting back to order.

We just had our first panel. Now we have our second panel of witnesses.

Again, this is the 120th meeting of the Standing Committee on Finance. We are in the pre-budget consultations right now in advance of the 2024 budget.

These witnesses who are before us will be our final witnesses before we get into the report stage. We look forward to hearing your testimony. Again, your testimony will be the final testimony we hear before our analysts and others, and the members, get to work on putting forward what they feel are the most important recommendations that they would like to see in the report.

With us today we have the Alliance des femmes de la francophonie canadienne and its president, Nour Enayeh. We also have its executive director, Soukaina Boutiyeb. We have Cascade Aerospace Inc. and its chief operating officer, Kevin Lemke. From MOSAIC, we have the chief executive officer, Olga Stachova, with us. From TransLink, we have the vice-president of customer communications, public affairs and brand marketing, Steve Vanagas.

The Vancouver Airport Authority is with us. We came through the Vancouver airport yesterday, and we'll be leaving through the Vancouver airport today. We have the vice-president and chief external affairs officer, Mike McNaney, and the director of government relations, Trevor Boudreau. We also have the Abbotsford Chamber of Commerce's chief executive officer, Alex Mitchell, with us.

All of you will now have an opportunity to provide opening remarks. You'll have up to five minutes to do that.

We'll start with the Alliance des femmes de la francophonie canadienne, please.

[Nour Enayeh, President, Alliance des femmes de la francophonie canadienne]

Good morning, Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen members of Parliament.

On behalf of the Alliance des femmes de la francophonie canadienne, or AFFC, I would like to thank the Standing Committee on Finance for this opportunity to present our recommendations for the 2024 federal budget.

My name is Nour Enayeh, and I'm president of the AFFC. With me today is Soukaina Boutiyeb, the organization's executive director.

We are a non-profit feminist organization dedicated to raising awareness and promoting the role and contribution of more than 1.3 million francophone and Acadian women living in minority situations. AFFC is fortunate to have a network of 15 member organizations in eight provinces and one territory.

This year, the Action Plan for Official Languages 2023‑2028 officially recognized the essential contribution of women to the development of official language minority communities. Women ensure the transmission and transformation of the francophone identity. They are the true guardians of francophone and Acadian communities. Unfortunately, this contribution receives little or no recognition. Recognition of their contribution must be articulated, and investments must be concrete and constant. That's what we're asking you to do today.

Since the pandemic, the country has seen a worrying rise in cases of gender-based violence. The National Action Plan to End Gender-Based Violence announced for 2022 makes no specific mention of francophone and Acadian women. They are entitled to receive services in French.

What's more, for the AFFC network, the reality of funding organizations is very worrying, since not all our member organizations benefit from core funding. The allocation of core funding will enable them to continue to play their essential role in their communities.

In Canada, women account for around 54% of caregivers. Their reality is unique. The importance of mental and physical health takes on its full meaning, and access to respite services is in constant demand. Health care, transportation and respite services must be accessible in French.

Programs and services developed by the government produce effects that may be felt differently depending on the identity factors relating to each person. This is what the Gender-based Analysis Plus, or GBA+, attempts to address. However, not all federal institutions apply it in the same way. To be fully effective, GBA+ must be applied comprehensively, and its results made accessible to the public.

The AFFC submits the following recommendations to the committee.

Firstly, we recommend that the next budget apply a more comprehensive gender-based analysis and ensure that the results are accessible to the entire population.

Second, we recommend that the government invest an additional amount in the implementation of the National Action Plan to End Gender-Based Violence, and that it dedicate a specific envelope for francophone and Acadian women's organizations in minority settings.

Third, we recommend that the government ensure specific core funding for all minority francophone and Acadian women's organizations, and that it invest $280 million over five years from the envelope of funds allocated as core funding for Canadian francophonie organizations, in order to prevent organizations from reaching a breaking point.

Fourth, we recommend that the government set aside a specific envelope for francophone and Acadian women's organizations as part of the funding allocated to all federal institutions.

Finally, we recommend that the government invest in facilitating access to resources and services for francophone caregivers.

Mr. Chair, members of the Standing Committee on Finance, thank you for your attention.

Soukaina Boutiyeb and I would be happy to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you, Ms. Enayeh.

Now we will hear from MOSAIC.

[Olga Stachova, Chief Executive Officer, MOSAIC]

Good afternoon.

My name is Olga Stachova. It's a privilege to be here today to speak on behalf of MOSAIC, a B.C.-based settlement organization.

I would like to start by acknowledging that we are meeting today on the unceded and traditional territories of the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh people, and I'd like to pay my respects to their elders.

For over 45 years, MOSAIC has been supporting immigrants, refugees and temporary foreign workers in B.C. as one of the largest providers of family, settlement, language, employment, interpretation and translation services in Canada. Today, I'd like to share with you three recommendations that, in MOSAIC's opinion, will improve the well-being and the economic outcomes of immigrants.

First, create a federal housing strategy connected to and supporting Canada's immigration strategy.

In 2022, for the second year in a row, Canada welcomed more permanent residents than ever before. At the same time, temporary foreign workers increased almost 20% in 2022 to over 500,000, and international student numbers rebounded to the prepandemic levels of over 620,000.

The first six months of this year indicate that Canada will significantly exceed the target of 465,000 permanent residents this year. That was acknowledged as a key component of the strategy to stabilize and boost our economy. At the same time, the supports necessary to support immigrants effectively are lacking, especially in the area of affordable housing. Without this foundation, the ability to attract and settle skilled immigrants within our communities will be impeded.

MOSAIC recommends an increased commitment to addressing the systemic barriers to housing faced by newcomers because of a lack of Canadian references, credit history, rental history and work experience, but especially because of the overall lack of affordable housing. We suggest that housing affordability could be promoted by continued federal leadership and increased funding that encourages provinces and municipalities to work together to increase the supply of affordable housing—specifically, rent geared to income housing. To address the additional barriers faced by newcomers in terms of references and experience, the federal government could encourage municipalities to require new residential developments to include affordable housing units dedicated to newcomers in the first three to five years of their stay in Canada.

Second is funding for Canadian work experience and training programs for recent immigrants.

Lack of Canadian work experience remains one of the most significant barriers recent immigrants face in finding skills-commensurate employment. Targeted funding would allow employers and service organizations to work together to provide newcomers with occupation-specific training for in-demand jobs, hands-on workplace experience through internships and orientation to Canadian workplaces and mentorships. By modelling an approach after the robust framework that is already in place to support young people in Canada in gaining work experience through co-op placements, internships and employer incentives, Canada can optimize the contribution of recent immigrants to the labour market and provide employers with the skilled and experienced workforce they need.

Given the pace at which technological advancements are changing the nature of jobs and the skill sets required for jobs, we need to recognize the role employers will increasingly play in on-the-job training. For over 15 years, MOSAIC has been delivering successful pilots, engaging employers in the design and delivery of training programs. These programs, including job placements, consistently led to 85% of the trainees landing full-time positions in their field, but the short-term nature of these pilots doesn't allow for meaningful engagement of employers and for ongoing on-the-job training opportunities for newcomers. We recommend creating a permanent funding envelope for this type of industry-led training and job placement program responding to market needs.

The third is core funding for not-for-profit organizations.

Canada has a substantial not-for-profit sector delivering many of the government's services and supports, often supporting those who are most in need. Charities and not-for-profits contribute $192 billion in economic activity to Canada and account for 8.3% of the country's GDP, employing 2.4 million people.

Canadians clearly need and want strong not-for-profits, as do all levels of government, but despite the essential societal role played by not-for-profits, the way government funds the sector is not sustainable. Organizations in the charitable and not-for-profit sector have the same needs as organizations in the private and public sectors. They need to invest in staffing, financial management, data security and privacy, technology, evaluation, staffing, office space and supplies. Many of these basic needs are ineligible to be covered by government funding or are often expected to be covered by pulling in small overhead amounts from short-term contracts.

When organizations need to constantly pursue project-based funding to stay afloat, it limits their ability to be responsive to the needs of communities. Moreover, the requirements of funding agreements around systems and security have been increasing exponentially, with governments now requiring not-for-profits to deploy state-of-the-art systems that are simply cost-prohibitive. The unmanageable increase in all core costs is also cost-prohibitive. The constant refrain of including the costs in the existing 10% to 15% overhead is just not feasible.

While these costs are not necessarily direct program costs, they are essential to providing quality programs and services to communities and upholding good governance standards and financial management, as well as stable employment for its diverse workforce, predominantly made up of women and immigrants.

Therefore, MOSAIC supports the recommendations presented by Imagine Canada and urges the government to reclassify 30% of all current project-based funding that is destined for charities and not-for-profits to be eligible as core funding.

Thank you.